Gripen NG

[MastanKhan]

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View attachment 273342

The raven radar & irst would no doubt give the JF-17 at least half a generational leap.

Hi,

I could not understand why JF 17 did not have IRST installed like it is on the J10---. At times I think that the minimal design for the JF 17 in size should have been that of the japanese F2

I have seen virtually every fighter planes thread starting with the caption PAF is Interested in .................... ?

And Mastankhan strategic planning to bomb Indian cities like Mumbai and banglore from sea flying with J7hb to su 35, but though he is a stretegic planer of pakistan, forgots the dedicated strategic bombers and always running after the legacy fighter planes. Mastan Bhai, cut the crap now just induct China’s Xian H-6K with six KD-20 land attack cruise missiles (LACM) on its wings plus one in its bomb bay as well as a variety of new precision-guided munitions. It is believed to have a combat radius of 3,500 km thanks to modern turbofans and the use of lighter-weight composites in its construction. Or choose TU pitchback bomber, one which is available with the China, then you can attack even Chennai while takking off from Karachi.



You tested Rafale, you tested EF so, didn't it meet the PAF requirement, and why they didn't buyed them. When did PAF tested SU-35, there is difference between Su-35 and Chinese J series.



How did you got the information from Indian Air Force evaluation of MMRCA, when its secret, and not in public domain.
Provide link and what did you got from MMRCA, I am dying to listen ?



What does it has to do with the subject.

Hi,

So---for children---I have to repeat some of the stories again---the problem is----as they have not seen things happen---they don't understand that things have happened.

Okay pappy----we tested the Rafale---we were seriously thinking of getting it----but the problem with PAF was that it got a fckd up mindset---in got entangled in the snare setup by india---it fell for the trap that there would be no hostilities between pakistan and india---peace deal was already done and just need to be signed---and therefor they cancelled the leaning towards the Rafale.

As I mentioned before---after you guys had done your testing---we got copies of the results----so---we did not need to do anything on our own extensively---. Just a couple of flights over here---a couple over thjere---and the deal could be done---.

Just remember---the egyptians did 3 or 4 flights only and signed the deal in 2 1/2 months.

I cannot tell you when the SU35 test drive was done---. I am already in trouble over certain things I have said and I don't want to dig my grave any deeper.

As for the deep strike JH7B----the H6 does not meet the criteria---. The JH7B is technically 85% equal to the F111 in performance but a 150% better in technology. With a 1600 T / R aesa radar---irst and massive elelctronic jammers----we need this aircraft more now---.

It can also be used as an air superiority fighter for BVR sorties----because it will be able to carry between 10-12 SD10's or the PL15's.

Plus electronic measures control aircraft for all Growler type capabilities.

The PL15 should be coming into service in next year---and suppose we could order the JH7B now---we would be getting them in a year or so---.

So can you believe it that this aircraft could launch a BVR at 180 KM range or could also have the high off bore sight PL12 as well.

Now---just wait and see what upgrade the japanese are going to put on their Mitsubishi F2---which currently can carry around 8000 KG load----the upgrade is coming out next year.

 

[MastanKhan]

Define "Tested".
Also, when has Su 35 been tested.

And MMRCA Info.. oh My... Next is what .. Indian Nuclear Lauch Codes ?

Does PAF have Testing Standards like Test Drives ?

Hi,

The mmrca information was easy to get---. We don't want to get into the launch codes---. PAF is extremely flexible on its testing standards.

On our choice we can use the testing standards of another party---if there is an urgency---. The extremely thorough testing of mmrca has helped made our job easier because we already know the economic parts of the utility of the aircraft---basically what it would cost to use it---.

Gratefully you guys have tested all these aircraft in the conditions that are exactly the same as ours---pilots that are same in size and fitting etc etc etc----.

So---thank you very very much.

A fighter Pilot flies the Plane, is what is called tested here, no need for the technical evolution on the ground control center, and any certification process



J-11, from the back seat of the tandem seat, when the Chinese Pilot give its control to the Pakistani Pilot when it reached the safe altitute , since J-11 is looks like Su-27 and its the chinese copy, so Su-35 will fly like that, thats gives the idea to the pilot who will dectate the repote to the command.

Which one Mehran Test Drives.

Hi,

How do you think the Egyptians made the deal in 2 1/2 months---.

Tha tandem ride is for the air chief only----. SU35 were actually flight tested---. Why do you think there are talks of getting the SU 35---.

The first numbers have already been worked out between tthe SU the J and the E.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Bhai I like you but do you know what are you saying, Japanese F-2 is bigger than F-16, that will make it into medium wt fighter plane, and JF-17 what designed as light weitht and cost wise cheap.
i


Don't speculate give reference @Horus
So you don't believe that Rafale was left due to cost, and PAF don't have fund to buy Rafale at that time.




Source .. This could be the biggest News in the history of the PDF
@Horus @MilSpec @PARIKRAMA @nForce @Basel @Blue Marlin @Oscar @XiNiX @Abingdonboy



Soruce




Do you know what is a strategic bomber ?



Are you sure Air superiority by a bomber.



I don't know what should I say on your speculation. first does with growler like capabilities do you mean F-18 growler.

Hi,

Yes---F18 Growler---THEE F18 GROWLER---yessir.

At 180 KM range---you don't need an air superiority fighter that can do 9G's---. Go look at the video posted by Aamir Husseing about the strike package of the F22 and B1 Bomber---see how they operate---.

As for the egyptian deal----sometimes I feel like I am trying to teach my children---p[lease don't challenge the informatioon unless you know for a fact that it is not true---but you being an indiandoes not know that----and me half american now---can't change myself---.

In 2002-03 pakistan could buy around 60 to 70 Rafales with a total cash payout upfront for 30 aircraft----.During the period of the sanctions---the money was going into a piggy bank every year except for 3 years.

And provide the source of your stand that Pakistan got the copy of the MMRCA test result.

The source is living happliy in -------------------------.

View attachment 273338 View attachment 273340 View attachment 273341 View attachment 273339
View attachment 273342

The raven radar & irst would no doubt give the JF-17 at least half a generational leap.

Hi,

So---basically what the japanese came up with that an upgraded / refurbished 3rd gen aircraft with an upto date total electronic warfare package with potent BVR missiles is a more appreciatable option at this stage---which means that a similar setup for an aircraft like the JH7B would literally make it one of the deadliest deep strike aircraft in the arena----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Wow, that tells us a lot what you know about testing and validation...

Hi,

Why don't you ask the egyptians how they did it in 2 1/2 months---.

OHHHH----but---excuse me please---I forgot that being an INDIAN---you are going to be right.

 

[MilSpec]

Hi,

Why don't you ask the egyptians how they did it in 2 1/2 months---

OHHHH----but---excuse me please---I forgot that being an INDIAN---you are going to be right.

even a clerk would know the difference between a bid and a single party direct procurement. It is quite common practice in the pretty much any industry.

Also evaluation process for different users are different, MKI, Mirage 2000, Mig29's for IAF did not go into a bid.


OHHHH----but---excuse me please--- - eh screw it, you are wrong.

In 2002-03 pakistan could buy around 60 to 70 Rafales with a total cash payout upfront for 30 aircraft----.During the period of the sanctions---the money was going into a piggy bank every year except for 3 years.

.

That has to be one of the dumbest ideas I have heard, hoard Capex budget in a piggy bank but keep borrowing from IMF to devalue your own currency. You do realise that doesn't make one bit of sense.
Don't conflate Capital items with used corollas.

 

[MastanKhan]

This type of answer dosen't suit your profile Sir.

How would i know who the source is---and how I would be sitting on the internet talking to you about it---just think about it---.

And my profile---it is all fake.

even a clerk would know the difference between a bid and a single party direct procurement. It is quite common practice in the pretty much any industry.

Also evaluation process for different users are different, MKI, Mirage 2000, Mig29's for IAF did not go into a bid.


OHHHH----but---excuse me please--- - eh screw it, you are wrong.



That has to be one of the dumbest ideas I have heard, hoard Capex budget in a piggy bank but keep borrowing from IMF to devalue your own currency. You do realise that doesn't make one bit of sense.
Don't conflate Capital items with used corollas.

Hi,

We were not looking for the MKI or the Mirage 2000 or the MIG29---just those which you guys evaluated.

By this much time that you have spent with us---you should have learnt---that we do things differently than you---.

I don't know why you keep fighting. I am just telling you how we do things and you want to argue that it is not done that way----

 

[MastanKhan]

basic economics. look up how capital expenditure works.

Hi,

You know what----I love you too---.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Mastan Bhai I am confused what the PAF is looking at
1. Mirrage 2005
2. Rafale
3. EF-2000
4. J-11
5. J-10B
6. J7H b
7 Su-35
8 J-31
9. Grippen
10 F-35
11 F-16 Block 60
12 F-16 V
13. Pak-FA/ Pak-DA

Why not straight to F-22, end of the discussion

ooooo.....do i sense some trolling doing on!?
1: india bee them to it
2: to slow and no money at the time
3: same as 2
4: viable but not going to happen
5: i have no idea, would be a good stop gap though
6: i have no idea, would be a good stop gap though
7: never going to happen Russians playing with Pakistani's mind to push india into buying it.
8: very likely
9: very similar to 5 and at half the price
10: in ones dreams but not mine
11: no sure unlikely
12: more likely than 11 but not likely
13: funny!
14 (f22): no
Who is stopping PAF to go for the Rafale BTW period. If Pakistan have the bucks go for it.

Second what is the price of the total cost of acquisition of Rafale not the fly away cost ?

@Blue Marlin When Captor-e will will attain FOC in 2020 it would be the most powerful AESA of the europe, EF is the fighter plane which is the right candidate to support with its two powerful EJ200 engine, for the AIR Superiority, First look, first shoot capability.

with out a doubt, the rbe2 which is fitted in the rafale is flat fitted whilst the captor-e is maneuverable

I have seen virtually every fighter planes thread starting with the caption PAF is Interested in .................... ?

And Mastankhan strategic planning to bomb Indian cities like Mumbai and banglore from sea flying with J7hb to su 35, but though he is a stretegic planer of pakistan, forgots the dedicated strategic bombers and always running after the legacy fighter planes. Mastan Bhai, cut the crap now just induct China’s Xian H-6K with six KD-20 land attack cruise missiles (LACM) on its wings plus one in its bomb bay as well as a variety of new precision-guided munitions. It is believed to have a combat radius of 3,500 km thanks to modern turbofans and the use of lighter-weight composites in its construction. Or choose TU pitchback bomber, one which is available with the China, then you can attack even Chennai while takking off from Karachi.

you need to understand thats theres a difference between interested/evaluating and negotiating. every airforce is interested in new kit. Pakistan having a taste for western kit will obviously be "interested/evaluating" the options open to them. its like saying you want to buy a new family car and theres plenty to choose from but you just go for any random car without thinking.

the hk-6 is an old bird with new kit and a bit of a redesign. now cut the trolling out. i can say why dont india but the tu-95 with cruise missiles so it can go into any part of china and launch a strike.

You tested Rafale, you tested EF so, didn't it meet the PAF requirement, and why they didn't buyed them. When did PAF tested SU-35, there is difference between Su-35 and Chinese J series.

from what i know the rafale was evaluated first but it being french and the pakistanis are wary of France after the agosta deal will require a rethink. the eft was evaluated after the rafale and it was ideal but the issues of price and the posibility of some of the consortium partners not agreeing the deal will hinder the deal.

How did you got the information from Indian Air Force evaluation of MMRCA, when its secret, and not in public domain.
Provide link and what did you got from MMRCA, I am dying to listen ?

france was always meant to get the deal.

Source

the Egyptians did work quicker to get the rafale. from initial negotiations to delivery was in the space of less than a year. but i would imagine they paid more per unit for the privilege, which was not a problem as the french loaned them money so they can buy the jets.

////
i shall stay ontopic from now on as this has the potential to be a good thread.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Khafee @Indus Falcon @MastanKhan

 

[Khafee]

Mastan Bhai I am confused what the PAF is looking at
1. Mirrage 2005
2. Rafale
3. EF-2000
4. J-11
5. J-10B
6. J7H b
7 Su-35
8 J-31
9. Grippen
10 F-35
11 F-16 Block 60
12 F-16 V
13. Pak-FA/ Pak-DA

Why not straight to F-22, end of the discussion


Who is stopping PAF to go for the Rafale BTW period. If Pakistan have the bucks go for it.

Second what is the price of the total cost of acquisition of Rafale not the fly away cost ?

@Blue Marlin When Captor-e will will attain FOC in 2020 it would be the most powerful AESA of the europe, EF is the fighter plane which is the right candidate to support with its two powerful EJ200 engine, for the AIR Superiority, First look, first shoot capability.

Do stop acting like a fool. If you cannot engage in a discussion politely and positively, then stay out. This time your post got deleted, next time, it will be more serious.

**********************************************************************************************
To the rest of the troll brigade, whose posts have been deleted:

This thread has been cleaned, no more sarcastic, off topic, ill-informed nonsense. Indulge in it at your own peril.

Thank You

 

[Khafee]

the Egyptians did work quicker to get the rafale. from initial negotiations to delivery was in the space of less than a year. but i would imagine they paid more per unit for the privilege, which was not a problem as the french loaned them money so they can buy the jets.

There are very valid reasons why this happened.

1) Ever since the day Rafale flew, the Egyptians, like other Air Forces has been following it. Every Air force carries out threat assessments on multiple levels, periodically. An "If this platform is inducted / we go up against" is a must.

2) They operate the Mirage 2000, so they are well aware of the complexities of a French platform. All the way from negotiations and purchase, to training, induction and maintenance. This does not negate the fact that every new platform has it's own unique set of problems & teething issues.

3) Blk 50/52+ - Although a potent aircraft, is not as potent as the "Sufa". The chances of getting Blk61, are slim to none. So in terms of western platforms, that left them with only the Rafale, or the EF. Finance and politics played their part as well.

 

[zebra7]

Gripen NG is built to adapt to changing threats and operational requirements that modern air forces face.
Based on the proven Gri
OPERATIONAL DOMINANCE
Gripen NG offers operational dominance and flexibility with superior mission survivability. Air-to-air superiority is guaranteed with METEOR, AMRAAM, IRIS-T, AIM-9 missile capability and supercruise. Air-to-surface capability is assured through the use of the latest generation precision weapons and targeting sensors. Gripen NG's superior situation awareness is ensured through an AESA radar, IRST passive sensor, HMD, cutting-edge avionics, next generation data processing and a state-of-the-art cockpit.

pen C/D platform, the Gripen Next Generation (Gripen NG, also known as Gripen E/F) carry this heritage and continues to be one of the most advanced multi-role fighters in the world - revolutionary because it combines advanced technology and operational effectiveness in an affordable package that no other fighter aircraft can even hope to match.

TRUE MULTI-ROLE FIGHTER
Gripen Next Generation (NG) is a fully NATO-interoperable, true multi-role fighter with outstanding availability, tailored for the future Network Centric Warfare (NCW) environment. Gripen NG will meet the demanding operational requirements of the 21st century air forces and its unrivalled multi-role capability provides excellent tactical flexibility.

OPERATIONAL DOMINANCE
Gripen NG offers operational dominance and flexibility with superior mission survivability. Air-to-air superiority is guaranteed with METEOR, AMRAAM, IRIS-T, AIM-9 missile capability and supercruise. Air-to-surface capability is assured through the use of the latest generation precision weapons and targeting sensors. Gripen NG's superior situation awareness is ensured through an AESA radar, IRST passive sensor, HMD, cutting-edge avionics, next generation data processing and a state-of-the-art cockpit.


NETWORK CENTRIC WARFARE
Together with proven Network Centric Warfare capabilities including advanced data communications, dual data links, satellite communications and video links, make Gripen NG the ideal independent fighter of choice. On-board sensors, in combination with HMD/NVG, deliver the ability to detect and destroy a wide variety of targets, even at night or in poor weather conditions.

FEATURES
[img src="http://image.saab.com/globalassets/...er-system-gripen-ng-gripenng_cliffs__2340.jpg"

• current tab: FEATURES AT A GLANCE
• AESA
• IRST
• ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW)
• WEAPONS
• COMMUNICATION
• INFORMATION PRESENTATION
• COST EFFICIENT FIGHTER
• SURVIVABILITY
• RANGE

FEATURES AT A GLANCE
AESA
IRST
ELECTRONIC WARFARE (EW)
WEAPONS
COMMUNICATION
INFORMATION PRESENTATION
COST EFFICIENT FIGHTER
SURVIVABILITY
RANGE
In order to explain why Gripen is the smart fighter system, let us present what a modern multirole-fighter need to perform. A fighter mission can be compared to large scale chess games, where the fighter allows you to get the right situation awareness in order to communicate the right information to take the adequate decision. The same analogy to chess games applies regardless if the mission to perform is air-to-air, reconnaissance or air-to-ground. In all the case the fighter needs the following:

• Information
• Movements
• Weapons

Information is obtained by the usage of the sensors and the possibility to communicate with other units, the fighter is integrated in a network of communications.



The performance of the fighter allows the aircraft to have the right movement dependent on the situation provided to him from its own sensors or other sensors from other units (land, sea or air).



In order to participate in an active role in the check game a modern multi role fighter needs to be a balanced design between, performance, sensors, communication, weapons carriage, countermeasure, stealth and cost among other criteria. Cost has always been a design parameter and Saab’s engineers are asked to maximise performance at a given cost, not just to maximise performance freely.



The Gripen NG fighter is equipped with the latest available technics in those keys areas.

 

[zebra7]

RAVEN ES-05
ACTIVE ELECTRONICALLY SCANNED ARRAY (AESA) FIRE CONTROL RADAR

RAVEN ES-05 is a high performance AESA radar designed
for the Saab Gripen NG swing role fighter that builds on over
60 years of Selex ES’s fire control radar experience. RAVEN
ES-05 has been designed in close collaboration with Saab.
RAVEN ES-05 features an innovative roll-repositionable
AESA antenna to provide a full ±100º field of regard allowing
maximum situational awareness and platform survivability.
This Wide Field of Regard (WFoR) allows the aircraft to turn
away after missile launch, whilst still maintaining datalinks to
the missile.

The highly reliable AESA transmit-receive module technology
incorporated in RAVEN ES-05 significantly improves system
availability leading to reduced lifecycle costs.

RAVEN ES-05 is part of a family of Selex ES AESA Radars
delivering greater performance and higher reliability than
comparable mechanically scanned radars and offers all the
advantages of multi-function AESA arrays with significant
through life cost savings.

KEY FEATURES

The RAVEN ES-05 Radar has been designed from the outset to
meet worldwide fire control radar detection and target tracking
needs combined into one efficient modular system. The RAVEN
ES-05 builds on common modular units for a scaleable system
architecture to meet the needs of fire control and intercept
radar operational requirements whilst remaining resistant to
radar countermeasures.

The AESA antenna is coupled to fully digital multi-channel
exciter/receiver and processor Line Replaceable Units (LRUs).
These provide a comprehensive mode suite which includes airto-air,
air-to-surface, interleaved and support functions, which can be readily
adapted or extended in software to meet future
needs. The radar makes use of AESA alert-confirm techniques to
confirm targets on first detection. This combined with optimised
AESA waveforms results in increased track initiation ranges,
whilst simultaneously maintaining situational awareness. The
instantaneous scanning ability of the AESA also provides a
comprehensive suite of interleaved air and surface modes,
thus providing the pilot with all round situational awareness.

KEY BENEFITS

•Wide field of regard
•Low cost ownership
•Superior performance
•Superior reliability
•Software driven
•Easy to use
•Mode interleaving
•High availability
•Electronic beam steering
•Missile support


RELIABILITY

At the core of the AESA radar design is the ability to tolerate
individual item failure. Component failures in the array result
in graceful performance degradation rather than complete
system failure, delivering high operational availability when
compared with conventional radar systems. Significant
cost benefits over the life of the system are realised due
to the high reliability, increased availability and reduced
maintenance requirements.

MODES CAPABILITIES

The mode set allows the system to deliver all of the
functional capabilities of a Fire Control Radar within an
acceptable platform volume. This is combined with the full
capabilities of a detection, tracking and prosecution system
to meet the needs of emerging new world threats.
The system utilises all the benefits of an electronically
scanned array to deliver :
•Significantly enhanced performance relative to similar
sized systems with the same weight, volume and power
•Comparable performance to larger mechanically scanned
system whilst offering reduced weight and power

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Frequency X Band
Scan coverage +/- 100°
Scan velocity Instant beam switching
Cooling Liquid and air
Weight 215kg
Key interfaces Ethernet, 1553B


MODES AVAILABLE

Air-to-Air Modes
•Search while track
•Single target track

Air combat modes
•HUD search
•Vertical scan
•Slewable scan
•Boresight

Air-to-surface modes
•Real beam ground map
•Doppler beam sharpening
•Sea surface search and track
•Ground moving target indication and track
•Spotlight and stripmap synthetic aperture radar
•Inverse synthetic aperture radar imaging
•Air to surface ranging

Interleaved modes
•Customer configurable
•Interleaved air and surface modes

Support functions
•Passive search while track
•Missile datalinks
•Cued search
•Non-cooperative target recognition
•Comprehensive ECCM suite
•Weather mode

 

[Blue Marlin]

There are very valid reasons why this happened.

1) Ever since the day Rafale flew, the Egyptians, like other Air Forces has been following it. Every Air force carries out threat assessments on multiple levels, periodically. An "If this platform is inducted / we go up against" is a must.

2) They operate the Mirage 2000, so they are well aware of the complexities of a French platform. All the way from negotiations and purchase, to training, induction and maintenance. This does not negate the fact that every new platform has it's own unique set of problems & teething issues.

3) Blk 50/52+ - Although a potent aircraft, is not as potent as the "Sufa". The chances of getting Blk61, are slim to none. So in terms of western platforms, that left them with only the Rafale, or the EF. Finance and politics played their part as well.

you forgot to mention that its armed with bvraams unlike the f16's.

 

[pkd]

@MastanKhan Typhoon also makes sense in the context of JF-17 : EJ-200 and Selex AESA on Block-3.