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vetvadi

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Dear defence.pk members.I am a turkish undergraduate student studying international relations.I am studying on my final paper related with indian Pakistani enduring rivality.Now I need some defensive arguments about nuclerization of pakistan.Also,how this enduring rivalry increased in south asia region after pakistan achived to obtain nuclear power.

Thanks in advance for your kind replies.
 
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Welcome to the forum, you're in the right place. You should have no trouble understanding the perspectives on both sides! good luck with your paper!
 
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Salam ve Merhaba Turkish Kardesim


I have debated the topic your paper is about, I really want to encourage you to read my debate I think it will contribute greatly to your understanding of Pakistan's Nuclear power history.


My debate was in a previous thread, read below.




What one must understand is that when we are children we have views that are not wise, we hold views that we pursue as realistic when they are farfetched, we argue with our wiser elders when we claim we are right.


The young students in this video are ignorant in the sense of National security, they clearly fail to understand that without the Nuclear power they would not be living in relative peace and the reason why foreign tanks are not parked outside their schools.

Hey how would they like to live in the one country that got invaded and was believed to have nuke but critically did not, I sure hate to see such an experience.


While the Indian members here praise this video, they praise it because it suits their views and aspirations.

Hence when the students are mature and learn more about the true threats that face the Pakistani nation they shall know their forefathers fought and ate grass, lived under sanctions, and their nation threatened by other powers just so they could be the only Muslim Nuclear Power.

See what these girls are missing is the larger picture, the world view.

They are complaining about immiedate needs, sure food and employment is important and Pakistan should improve it's efforts in this field. However, any effort to fix the lack of supplies in the nation does not me it come at the expense of a major defense doctrine and asset, the nukes.

InshAllah they shall learn that in 1998 c.e. this Nation at the moment in time was blessed with Nukes so it shall remain sovereign and a free people.

That is nonsense, with all respect to you.

These weapons have defended the nation from foreign invasions, from foreign armies, foreign occupiers, and more. They have contributed highly to Pakistan's national security. The Army sees it as a requirement and even the overwhelming of the Pakistani youth and majority.

You think you know better?:disagree:

What these weapons defend is the life of Pakistani people to live without foreign armies controlling them, abusing them, detaining them, and more.


Yes we have issues at home, but Nuclear weapons are not designed to protect us from everything, a Nation must use a multilateral approach to diverse problems. Though on the Nuclear front, it is especially important to deter war with regional nations that threaten Pakistan's sovereignty and nationhood.




Seriously how old are you and how real is your assessment of the reality in this World...."Imaginary line" that's a new one...:lol:

This imaginary line is called "home" by 176 million people and many people living abroad. This imaginary line is a place they love and many would sacrifice their live for in order to protect it, our families are they, our childhoods are there, are homes and property, our ancestral homeland even. Call me crazy, but I think Nukes help us to protect these special things from other nuclear threats.




I repeat, "Yes we have issues at home, but Nuclear weapons are not designed to protect us from everything, a Nation must use a multilateral approach to diverse problems. Though on the Nuclear front, it is especially important to deter war with regional nations that threaten Pakistan's sovereignty and nationhood."

Afford medical treatment, okay your really a wild pacifist who is against realistic weapons that actually deter further warfare.


Why do you blame Pakistan? Don't you understand we have been forced to go Nuclear? I guess not.



I rest my case, If I wish to respond to your next post I may or may not.



The students in the video are ignorant and thank God they are not serving in the Elite Offices of the Army.

Okay seriously your intelligence is quite amusing now...



First of all you cannot use Nukes within Pakistan to fight the Taliban, for obvious reasons and dangers. The Taliban is an insurgency, Nukes are mainly to deter other Nuclear Powers who threaten Pakistan.

"It didn’t protect your national sovereignty from drone strikes."

Pakistani Army and Musharraf Administration may have had an agreement with the US that drone strikes may be allowed to target Taliban fighters, so this may have been an pre-arranged agreement. And that the two countries would share intelligence and target plans.

Besides didn't I already tell you, the Nukes are not used for everything, a nation must use multilateral approach to diverse problems. We don't expect the Nukes to provide everything for us, your implications and suggestions are unwise.


"While Pakistan continues to spend more on enhancing its “nuclear deterrence” it diverts precious resources away from nation building."-Death by Chocolate

First of all you don't know much about Pakistan, Pakistan is going ahead with major infrastructure projects in Lahore, Karachi, Islamabad, and Gwadar. Nuclear weapons are not the cause for any lack of nation building, if we don't have a strong nuclear power we won't have a nation especially in the face of nuclear enemies.



:lol: First of all prior to 1998 India was not recognized as a nuclear armed nation, but had primitive nuclear devices that's all. When India decided to go Nuclear it presented Pakistan a grave national security danger, one that conventional armed forces could not deal with alone. So this means Pakistan had to by Geo-Political and military factors GO Nuclear.


About the "Smiling Buddha" nuclear DEVICE test, that was the forerunner of the nuclear race. Of course Pakistan remained intact, because India's nuclear weapons program was in early stages and primitive stages, they were not necessarily a Nuclear Armed weapons state, but a country experimenting with Nuclear devices. Nuclear devices are not necessarily weapons of mass destruction but well developed/enriched Nuclear bombs and warheads are.

So at the time of the Smiling Buddha the risk was only beginning.



Also it is strongly believed the nuclear deterrence was brilliantly used by Pres. Musharraf during the 2001-2002 Military standoff. Pakistan threaten Nuclear first strike and massive swift Nuclear strikes on Indian major cities...This prevented war, saved lives, assured peace for the time, and safety.

How many nuclear warheads did you have at the time you tested the Smiling Buddha?

And you are making a mistake many make, and that is the Smiling Buddha was a Nuclear Device not a nuclear bomb that could threaten Pakistan.

Nuclear warheads, bombs, and missiles are different from small nuclear devices which is what India tested in 1974.

And During the time of the Smiling Buddha India had basic nuclear technology nothing sophisticated enough to deploy Nuclear weapons and harm Pakistan.


Got it, good...:disagree:

Well as you said the weapons used against Japan was a "Nuclear bomb", the Smiling Buddha was a "Nuclear Device". You obviously fail to understand the lethality and difference of the two technologies.

Here's something for you to read up on.

"While touring the Bhabha Atomic Research Center (BARC) on 7 September 1972 Prime Minister Indira Gandhi gave verbal authorization to the scientists there to manufacture the nuclear device they had designed and prepare it for a test ."

"Throughout the development of this device, more formally dubbed the "Peaceful Nuclear Explosive" or PNE, but commonly called Smiling Buddha, very few records of any kind were kept either on the development process or the decision making involved in its development and testing."

Source: India's Nuclear Weapons Program - Smiling Buddha: 1974


"development process" indicates India was in the early stages of it's Nuclear program and path to Nuclear armament, this means India had the full intention of Nuclear weapons. This presents a Nuclear threat to Pakistan beyond what our conventional armed forces can handle.

"The only appropriate response to a Nuclear threat is an equal and counter Nuclear threat."-A1Kaid.


Japan's Hiroshima and Nagasaki WWII experience is a testimony to that.


Further points I would like to add, is the "Little Boy" Nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima was developed by the US and was relatively an advanced nuclear bomb, especially considering the time. It was also very heavy and contained more enriched uranium than the Indian nuclear device, or Smiling Buddha ever did.

"As the observation and photography escorts dropped back, the Enola Gay released a 9,700-pound uranium bomb, nicknamed Little Boy, at approximately 8:15 a.m. Hiroshima time"

Source: Hiroshima | The Manhattan Project: Making the Atomic Bomb | History of the Atomic Age | atomicarchive.com

Notice how the source clearly says uranium bomb, and not Nuclear device. Nuclear device isn't really 'weaponized'.


You haven't proven to be intelligent in this debate at all, but you have succeeded in making emotional and sentimental arguments about why Pakistan should not have nukes, not strategic, defense, military, scientific, and down right survival arguments...:tsk:

It's also quite funny how Indians love to support your position, wonder why? Because it's exactly what they want a non-Nuclear Pakistan that cannot defend against India's Nuclear arsenal.


Nothing else to say to someone like you.

You may complain all you want but Pakistan will remain a Nuclear power.:coffee:





You can find these posts in the thread below.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/27527-what-girls-pak-think-about-india-6.html#post389646
 
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^^ oh and you might want to introduce yourself in the new member introduction section, but I the mods might move your thread there anyway.
 
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:welcome: TO :pdf:

Enjoy ur stay here

wish you best of luck on your topic concerned A1Kaid has already answered it in a very good manner.

try to watch videos of Wagah Border on Youtube or watch India Vs Pakistan Cricket Match.
 
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Dear defence.pk members.I am a turkish undergraduate student studying international relations.I am studying on my final paper related with indian Pakistani enduring rivality.Now I need some defensive arguments about nuclerization of pakistan.Also,how this enduring rivalry increased in south asia region after pakistan achived to obtain nuclear power.

Thanks in advance for your kind replies.

WELCOME ABHI !!!!!!!!:welcome::welcome:
 
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welcome brother. there are many military professionals in this forum. im sure they ll be more than happy to help you.
 
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Hi Brother

Welcome very interesting subject.
I would suggest to understand this issue please watch one documentary “final solution” and it can be downloaded free from internet. Just Google final solution massacres in India you will find this. Total length is approximately two and a half hour.

It is Rakesh Sharma’s project you can buy on line or it can be downloaded fron internet. Its link is posted by “Communist” in Strategic & Geopolitical Issues section.

Watch you will know a lot
:coffee:
 
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