Greatest Persians in history

[ASQ-1918]

Sultan is an Arabic title. Khan is a general Turkic-Mongol title, it was used within Safavid state, but Shah Ismail did not use this as a title for himself because it was in use with Ottoman Sultans. Instead Khan was used for lower rank because of political purposes. Probably the answer for your question is political purpose.

Here is titles of Safavid Empire (except the Shah himself), all Turkic:

Khan, Beglerbegi, Qizilbash, Qullar, Eshik Aghasibashi, Qorchu, Qorchubashi, Yasavul, Kanuqibashi, Chalchibashi.

 

[Surenas]

A question:
Why did he call himself an Iranian word "shah", instead of a Turkish word "Sultan" or a Mogul word "khan"?

Second question:
For the future generations, is Khamenei a Turkish guy or a Persian guy or an Iranian guy?

My point is "Ismail I" was someone like Khamenei, of Azeri descent but not devoted to Azeris but to Iran-Shiism.

They all are Iranians. Just like Ahmad Kasravi who was an Azeri, but acknowledged that Azeris are Turkified Iranians.

 

[ASQ-1918]

My point is "Ismail I" was someone like Khamenei, of Azeri descent but not devoted to Azeris but to Iran-Shiism.

Persians and Iran were largely Sunni prior to forced conversions by Shah Ismail, so I give this to your lack of information.

 

[Surenas]

Btw, my mothers family had the title 'Beg' as surname. Don't know why though.

 

[Targon]

If you're not going to argue like men, spread your sh.t somewhere else.

 

[tyrant]

Persians and Iran were largely Sunni prior to forced conversions by Shah Ismail, so I give this to your lack of information.

Everyone knows this and it was my actual point that he never had Turkish ambitions.
So do you consider Khamenei, Azeri-Turk?

 

[mehmeTcc]

And btw, what is Mogul? Never heard such a thing, appearently Google doesn't know a **** about it.

 

[Targon]

What is Turkjish ambitions ? what is Persian ambition ? ambitions were not based on ethnicities in the past, his ambition was about religion.

 

[tyrant]

Some Turkish leader were really Turkish like:
Sultan Alb Arsalan
Sultan Tughrol
Sultan Mehmet




Some of them changed their title and their capital and worked for Iran:
Malek Shah of Seljuq chnged the Capital to the Iranian city of Isfahan.
Shah Ismail I
Abbas I Shah

And btw, what is Mogul? Never heard such a thing, appearently Google doesn't know a **** about it.

Autocorrection of Mongol, Moghal. My bad!

 

[Targon]

No, non of these were after Turkish or Persian ambitions at all.

 

[tyrant]

What is Turkjish ambitions ? what is Persian ambition ? ambitions were not based on ethnicities in the past, his ambition was about religion.

The difference of Sultan Mehmet desires and Shah Ismail I desires.
Sunni vs Shia
Turkey vs Iran
Sultan vs Shah
Turkish poetry and Turkish language used in the system

.
.
main point:
In the future Turkish guys may say Khamenei was ours. Are they right?

 

[Targon]

Again none of these leaders were after any ethnic ambitions, we're indeed talking about stuff they would laugh at.

 

[Surenas]

In the future Turkish guys may say Khamenei was ours. Are they right?

Khamenei isn't even 100% Azeri.

 

[tyrant]

Khamenei isn't even 100% Azeri.

Ismail I was not 100% Azeri either. His grandmother was Greek (daughter of Eastern Roman/Greek emperor).

 

[ASQ-1918]

Tyrant, read this as it explains certain things about the early establishment of Safavid state.

David Morgan. "Shah Isma'il and the Establishment of Shi'ism"

chpt. 12 of his Medieval Persia: 1040-1797, Longman, New York, 1988, pp. 112-123.
The Formation of the Safawid Empire

Safawid rule over Persia is conventionally dated from Shah Isma'ils capture of Tabriz in the aftermath of his victory over the Aq-Qoyunlu ruler Alwand at Sharur in 907/1501. But there was still a very long way to go before Isma'il could be regarded as anything more than a potential successor to the Aq-Qoyunlu in Azarbayjan. Nor, for some years, was the geographical shape of the new state by any means clear. It may be that Isma'il's expectation was that he would be able to set up an essentially Turkmen empire after the Aq-Qoyunlu pattern, consisting of eastern Anatolia, Azarbayjan, western Persia and Iraq. After all, the military following on which he depended was Turkmen in composition, he had fixed his capital at Tabriz, the now traditional Turkmen centre on the periphery of Persia proper, and he may have seen himself as in some sense the legitimate successor to his Aq-Qoyunlu grandfather, Uzun Hasan.

The direction of Isma'ill's early campaigns certainly suggested that it was the Turkmen heritage he was primarily interested in.

Morgan. Shah Isma'il I