Greatest Historical Military General in the Middle-East?

[Ghazwa e Hind]

Syedna Khalid Bin Waleed (r.a) is the greatest military commander of not only middle east but whole world.

Syedi Rasul Allah (s.a.w.w), Syenda Umar (r.a) and Syedna Ali (r.a) are above all in their military tactics. We are talking except Caliphs of Rashiddun Caliphate.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

@BordoEnes

Worth the wait, isn't it?

I misposted that.By no i meant Gustavas adolphus was not undefeated in battle.He lost a battle in Poland when he had to flee from the battlefield.

Ghazwa,

I agree with you- the Prophet (pbuh) and the four rightly guided caliphs are in a different league and shouldnt be compared to mere mortals. But the rest we can always compare..

Regards

Redirect to Theology section plz.Umar was a politician ,not a battlefield commander.He was jealous of khlaid and had him demoted.

 

[Baybars Han]

Enes, there is many more leaders that are worth putting in the list. I will put do a list and explanations later on. Also do you mean Generals from countries that are currently in the middle east or Generals that had empires in the middle east?

 

[BordoEnes]

1.Khalid or Timur
2.Baybars or Cyrus

Ataturk is the best middle eastern commander since Nader.He is actually the only modern one of note and shouldn't be compared to pre-modern generals.All the above generals except khalid fought with the advantages of horse and archery in which the west asian/steppe descendant people traditionally excelled and in which their enemies could not always match them.Ataturk fought with a normal army,a weaker army and no such advantages.
Surena of the parthians is a choice,but we know of only one battle.

Cyrus is a must because he is the first empire builder,the original.The one alexader modelled himself on.
Timur was probably the most unstoppable on the list.

I didn't put Belisarius on the list,who would near the very top with the others because unsure whether he is middle eastern- due to bi-continental nature of byzantine empire.Another great byzantine general is Narses.Others are Basil the bulgar slayer and Heraclius.



Unbeaten generals -
Subotai(Both genghis and timur lost battles early in their career)
Suvorov
Alexander
Marlborough
Scipio africanus
Khalid
Davout
Moltke
Bajirao
Yue Fei
Shaka Zulu
Jan Zizka.



Zhukov lost at Rzhev.Gustavas adolphus -lost.Turenne lost .Conde lost.Suleiman lost at vienna.Nobunaga lost.Frderick the great lost.Attilla lost.Nader lost.Cyrus lost.Belisarius too.

How about the 4 great ancient generals in Chinese history? I actually dont know much about them aside from the fact they have been romanized in the manga Kingdom which is one of my favorite. They already introduced Bai Qi as an unstoppable and ruthless general that never lost a single battle in his entire life together with Lian Po, Li Mu and Wang Jian.

I am relativly new to this kind of stuff so pardon my ignorance.

@BordoEnes

Worth the wait, isn't it?

Totally

I misposted that.By no i meant Gustavas adolphus was not undefeated in battle.He lost a battle in Poland when he had to flee from the battlefield.



Redirect to Theology section plz.Umar was a politician ,not a battlefield commander.He was jealous of khlaid and had him demoted.

Do you perhaps know which general then should be credited for the conquest of the Sassanian empire? I know Khalid crippled them and defeated them on many occasions but was he the person that dealt the final blow?

Enes, there is many more leaders that are worth putting in the list. I will put do a list and explanations later on. Also do you mean Generals from countries that are currently in the middle east or Generals that had empires in the middle east?

Generals that derived from Middle-eastern states and empires. But if he is close enough and had far bigger impact then anywhere else i will put it in there. When i say "Middle-East" think of the "Greater Middle-East"(with parts of N.Africa, caucasus and parts central asia aswell.) instead.

 

[xenon54 out]

Alexander the Great should be in that list too.

 

[touela]

In this case Khalid bin Walid. A warior his whole live, excellent strategic and tactics. I do not now which war he did lost, mayb i don't now.

I write this because i read almost every campagne he took and fighted. Ther is no one who can outmacth him in the list, that is mine opinion.

Please allow me to widen your horizon. Hazrat Khalid R.A used to wear a red hat under his turban. Once during a war he lost his hat. He stopped fighting and started in kind of a panic to look after this hat. Other companions looked at his strange behaviour and asked him, why the hat is so important. First when he found it, put it under his turban, he said: "In this red hat, I have sewed hair from the Holy Prophet Muhammad saws, the Prophet said to me, as long as you have this hair with you, no defeat shall ever touch you".

So my friend, the hair from the prophet, is his actually succes factor.

Subhan Allah

 

[rockstar08]

Redirect to Theology section plz.Umar was a politician ,not a battlefield commander.He was jealous of khlaid and had him demoted.

Not jealous .. but concerned ...
His concern was that If Muslim Armies rely on Khalid too much than what if and when he dies ?
no one will and can replace him ... and this is what concern him the most ..
next thing was that People start to idolize Khalid .. and this is not good , Khalid was only a human and can fall with greed ..
if Umar was jealous with Khalid, Khalid would never name Umar for his daughters custodians after he dies ..
Umar was hard not just with Khalid but he often disagree with Abu bakr and even Prophet Muhammad pbuh sometimes ...
that's his nature ..
every person has its way to look and judge things ..

Umar was against that the commander act independently in the battlefield .. but anyone can disagree with Umar , even i will .. the commander knows the best situations on ground level ,so he should not have to wait till the order comes from the Capital ..

there are various incidents by which people can misjudge that there is some sort of jealously or hate between Khalid and Umar .. but its not true .. both have contributed their part , and both have a significance values within Islam ..and Islamic Empire ..

Khalid was given the title of - God's Drown Sword
about Umar , Prophet say's , if there was another Prophet after me , That would be Umar-ibn-Khattab

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Cant argue with that. But i feel like Selim would have been better had he lived and ruled longer. He did so much in only 8 years time. But then again Umar conquered all of the Sassanian empire in 2 years time. Goddamn this is hard to chose from..

Look at the kill-ratios of Khalid bin Walid's battles. His forces were almost always outnumbered.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Please allow me to widen your horizon. Hazrat Khalid R.A used to wear a red hat under his turban. Once during a war he lost his hat. He stopped fighting and started in kind of a panic to look after this hat. Other companions looked at his strange behaviour and asked him, why the hat is so important. First when he found it, put it under his turban, he said: "In this red hat, I have sewed hair from the Holy Prophet Muhammad saws, the Prophet said to me, as long as you have this hair with you, no defeat shall ever touch you".

So my friend, the hair from the prophet, is his actually succes factor.

Subhan Allah

If that is the case what is the explanation of khalid taking the initiative and leading the meccan cavalry against the muslim army led by muhammad at the battle of uhud,which led to their defeat?Did he have muhammad's hair there too?
Don't try to bring religion into everything,khalid was a naturally brilliant general.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Alexander the Great should be in that list too.

He is.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

How about the 4 great ancient generals in Chinese history? I actually dont know much about them aside from the fact they have been romanized in the manga Kingdom which is one of my favorite. They already introduced Bai Qi as an unstoppable and ruthless general that never lost a single battle in his entire life together with Lian Po, Li Mu and Wang Jian.

I am relativly new to this kind of stuff so pardon my ignorance.



Totally



Do you perhaps know which general then should be credited for the conquest of the Sassanian empire? I know Khalid crippled them and defeated them on many occasions but was he the person that dealt the final blow?

Chinese military history is a big weak point for me,and there are also no concrete descriptions of any battles move by move unfortunately in either chinese or ancient indian history.

Saad Ibn waqqas dealt the final deathblow at al qadisiyah.

 

[Spy Master]

1.Khalid or Timur
2.Baybars or Cyrus

Ataturk is the best middle eastern commander since Nader.He is actually the only modern one of note and shouldn't be compared to pre-modern generals.All the above generals except khalid fought with the advantages of horse and archery in which the west asian/steppe descendant people traditionally excelled and in which their enemies could not always match them.Ataturk fought with a normal army,a weaker army and no such advantages.
Surena of the parthians is a choice,but we know of only one battle.

Cyrus is a must because he is the first empire builder,the original.The one alexader modelled himself on.
Timur was probably the most unstoppable on the list.

I didn't put Belisarius on the list,who would near the very top with the others because unsure whether he is middle eastern- due to bi-continental nature of byzantine empire.Another great byzantine general is Narses.Others are Basil the bulgar slayer and Heraclius.



Unbeaten generals -
Subotai(Both genghis and timur lost battles early in their career)
Suvorov
Alexander
Marlborough
Scipio africanus
Khalid
Davout
Moltke
Bajirao
Yue Fei
Shaka Zulu
Jan Zizka.



Zhukov lost at Rzhev.Gustavas adolphus -lost.Turenne lost .Conde lost.Suleiman lost at vienna.Nobunaga lost.Frderick the great lost.Attilla lost.Nader lost.Cyrus lost.Belisarius too.

Which history books you read? Can you recommend me any without any bias of religion?

I misposted that.By no i meant Gustavas adolphus was not undefeated in battle.He lost a battle in Poland when he had to flee from the battlefield.



Redirect to Theology section plz.Umar was a politician ,not a battlefield commander.He was jealous of khlaid and had him demoted.

That's totally wrong...Ibn e Khuldoon and Tabraiz has wrote full incident...!
+
Umar R.A is a pious man and in Islam a person who is Jealous of anyone is considered to be a very bad man and will be punished for this on the day of judgement...! As Umar R.A is a Holy Caliph and seeing his status in Islam and Hadiths , no one could ever imagine he would do that over jealously..!
@Khafee

Not jealous .. but concerned ...
His concern was that If Muslim Armies rely on Khalid too much than what if and when he dies ?
no one will and can replace him ... and this is what concern him the most ..
next thing was that People start to idolize Khalid .. and this is not good , Khalid was only a human and can fall with greed ..
if Umar was jealous with Khalid, Khalid would never name Umar for his daughters custodians after he dies ..
Umar was hard not just with Khalid but he often disagree with Abu bakr and even Prophet Muhammad pbuh sometimes ...
that's his nature ..
every person has its way to look and judge things ..

Umar was against that the commander act independently in the battlefield .. but anyone can disagree with Umar , even i will .. the commander knows the best situations on ground level ,so he should not have to wait till the order comes from the Capital ..

there are various incidents by which people can misjudge that there is some sort of jealously or hate between Khalid and Umar .. but its not true .. both have contributed their part , and both have a significance values within Islam ..and Islamic Empire ..

Khalid was given the title of - God's Drown Sword
about Umar , Prophet say's , if there was another Prophet after me , That would be Umar-ibn-Khattab

I would give you a positive rating for this good clarification...!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Which history books you read? Can you recommend me any without any bias of religion?

Which topic you wanna read on.You have to be more specific.
Which time period or which generals.

Generally you can divide for academic purposes history(at least done so by western scholars) into 3 periods.

Ancient - From begiunning to fall of western roman empire in 476 AD.

Medieval - 476 AD - to fall of constantinopole in 1453.

Modern -1453-current
Now modern period can be subdivided into early modern (before ed of napoleonic wars in 1815,and after the industrial revolution in the mid 19th century actuall modern)

Islamic age of expansion is during the medieval period.Post 1600 europe slowly begins to dominate the world reaching its height in the 19th century and ending in the 2 world wars in the 20th century.

 

[xenon54 out]

He is.

Must have missed it.

 

[Spy Master]

Which topic you wanna read on.You have to be more specific.
Which time period or which generals.

Generally you can divide for academic purposes history(at least done so by western scholars) into 3 periods.

Ancient - From begiunning to fall of western roman empire in 476 AD.

Medieval - 476 AD - to fall of constantinopole in 1453.

Modern -1453-current
Now modern period can be subdivided into early modern (before ed of napoleonic wars in 1815,and after the industrial revolution in the mid 19th century actuall modern)

Islamic age of expansion is during the medieval period.Post 1600 europe slowly begins to dominate the world reaching its height in the 19th century and ending in the 2 world wars in the 20th century.

I would like to read about two world wars..Have you got any good book on that in soft form?