Govt shortlists 5 shipyards for Rs 64,000-cr submarines project

[Hindustani78]

How does 6 conventional sub's end up costing 10 billion dollars?

Akula-II nuclear-powered attack boat leased from Russia at Rs 5,500 crore.

six Scorpene submarines are being built at the Mazagon Dock Ltd with technology from DCNS under a Rs 23,562-crore project called P-75.

Six advanced submarines will be built under project P-75I.


The six new submarines for the P-75I project is the next phase of the same submarine project and will be worth over $ 11.10 billion. According to the Indian Navy, the new submarines will differ from the earlier lot since the qualitative requirements have been altered. The new submarines will have air-independent propulsion (AIP) to enable sustenance under water for longer duration. In addition, there will be advanced detection range and combat management system besides better sensors for optimum performance. The weapon system would be a mix of torpedoes and missiles.
The six new submarines in P-75 I project will outline various critical parameters including the weight and design of the submarine. The Project 75I submarines are expected to be bigger than the 1800-ton Scorpene class being built for P-75 project. The AIP systems will enable greater underwater endurance and land-attack missiles. Besides, they will also incorporate stealth, land-attack capability and other technological advancements.


state-owned Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) is working on the development of a land-based demonstrator followed by the creation of an Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system that will revolutionize the functions of the current diesel and electric submarines. The creation of a fully operational version of an AIP will substantially cut down the time spent by the submarine on snorting or resurfacing for battery recharge. The creation of the AIP will considerably improve the sub-surface performance of the submarines and decrease its susceptibility to attacks. Sources said that the DRDO has been requested by the Indian Navy to create a fully engineered fuel cell AIP by 2014. This will enable the possible use of the indigenous AIP in the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being built in Mumbai's Mazagaon Dock Limited (MDL).

The first ship will take at least 10 years to roll out.
Meanwhile we should order some follow ons to the P75 scorpenes.

Project 75i is designed to purchase 6 next generation diesel submarines with Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP) technology for Indian Navy by 2022. While conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries, AIP systems will help the submarines to stay submerged for longer periods. Apart from AIP, the new submarines will have advanced detection range and combat management systems and better sensors for optimum performance. The weapon system would be a mix of torpedoes and missiles.

why? Pipavav Shipyard is indian's largest.. i prefer Pipavav over L&T. L&T should focus on the nuclear submarines.

Among the potential foreign submarine contenders in the race for Project 75i are French DCNS ‘Scorpene’, Russia’s Rubin Amur 1650, the German HDW Type 214, Spain’s Navantia S-80 which broke its partnership with DCNS a while ago has been offering the S-80 design with an ethanol based AIP supplied by Abengoa.

Navantia also has a tie-up with Lockheed Martin for combat management systems and on India, it is known to have been working closely with L&T albeit on surface ship projects. The Swedish Kockums Archer-class is also in the race. Interestingly, DCNS of France, already has a technology tie-up with Pipavav Defence. Sembcorp Marine (Singapore), part of Temasek of the Singapore government and a leading global marine engineering group, has a strategic and equity partnership with Pipavav Defence.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

And the final scorpene will be out by 2020. If MDL is to be believed, they have still some space in which they can build more subs simultaneously. So why not give a follow on order of 6 more scorpene and get them inducted by 2024 by when we expect the first p75i in service.

 

[Hindustani78]

And the final scorpene will be out by 2020. If MDL is to be believed, they have still some space in which they can build more subs simultaneously. So why not give a follow on order of 6 more scorpene and get them inducted by 2024 by when we expect the first p75i in service.

P75I will be the last project with foreign firms and after that all the projects will be indigenous.

Ordering 6 more Scorpene submarines means again projects with foreign firm.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

We should be realistic, if the bid are submitted by 2016, it will take at least 3 years for completed evaluations and awarding the contract. Add to that about 1 more year of negotiations. By the time work starts on 1st sub it will already be 2020. Even the most optimistic person will not accept that it will take less than 5 years for its complete induction into the navy.

And if we are not ordering a follow on for more scorpenes we are
1. Wasting our TOT.
2.Wasting the capabilities which was setup by MDL.
3. WASTE OF TIME and Money.

It would be pure idiocy if we do go with scorpenes like we did with Type 209.

 

[Hindustani78]

We should be realistic, if the bid are submitted by 2016, it will take at least 3 years for completed evaluations and awarding the contract. Add to that about 1 more year of negotiations. By the time work starts on 1st sub it will already be 2020. Even the most optimistic person will not accept that it will take less than 5 years for its complete induction into the navy.

Now things have changed in India because national security is more important.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

I have been the most optimistic in saying that the first p75i will be fully inducted by 2025.

 

[hkdas]

Among the potential foreign submarine contenders in the race for Project 75i are French DCNS ‘Scorpene’, Russia’s Rubin Amur 1650, the German HDW Type 214, Spain’s Navantia S-80 which broke its partnership with DCNS a while ago has been offering the S-80 design with an ethanol based AIP supplied by Abengoa.

Navantia also has a tie-up with Lockheed Martin for combat management systems and on India, it is known to have been working closely with L&T albeit on surface ship projects. The Swedish Kockums Archer-class is also in the race. Interestingly, DCNS of France, already has a technology tie-up with Pipavav Defence. Sembcorp Marine (Singapore), part of Temasek of the Singapore government and a leading global marine engineering group, has a strategic and equity partnership with Pipavav Defence.

does any of these proposed companies have a history of completing projects without delay??
Hindustan Shipyard Limited delayed the refit of INS Sindhukirti by 9 years!!!!

 

[Hindustani78]

I have been the most optimistic in saying that the first p75i will be fully inducted by 2025.

Project 75i is designed to purchase 6 next generation diesel submarines with Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP) technology for Indian Navy by 2022.

does any of these proposed companies have a history of completing projects without delay??
Hindustan Shipyard Limited delayed the refit of INS Sindhukirti by 9 years!!!!

INS Sindhukirti’s refit took so long that many defence experts believed the vessel would never return to operational service.

Earlier Kilo-class refits in Russian shipyard, Zvezdochka, took an average of two and a half years each, and cost hundreds of crore rupees each. Zvezdochka experts who supervised the Sindhukirti’s refit at HSL knew they were assisting a potential competitor, which would indigenise the submarine overhaul business.

the most time-consuming and expensive work during a refit involves replacing damaged hull plates. Zvezdochka replaced only three square metres of hull plates while refitting Sindhughosh in Russia. But for Sindhukirti, the Russian experts ordered 39 square metres --- 13 times as much --- hull plating to be replaced.

INS Sindhukirti’s refit has involved extensive modernisation. Like submarines refitted in Russia, its torpedo tubes were modified to fire Klub missiles at surface targets. But Sindhukirti also got additional capabilities: an MCA inertial navigation suite, a Palady nerve system, and a Pirit ship control console. Bharat Electronics Ltd has provided an indigenous Ushus sonar and a modernised CCS Mark II communications suite.

 

[hkdas]

INS Sindhukirti’s refit took so long that many defence experts believed the vessel would never return to operational service.

Earlier Kilo-class refits in Russian shipyard, Zvezdochka, took an average of two and a half years each, and cost hundreds of crore rupees each. Zvezdochka experts who supervised the Sindhukirti’s refit at HSL knew they were assisting a potential competitor, which would indigenise the submarine overhaul business.

the most time-consuming and expensive work during a refit involves replacing damaged hull plates. Zvezdochka replaced only three square metres of hull plates while refitting Sindhughosh in Russia. But for Sindhukirti, the Russian experts ordered 39 square metres --- 13 times as much --- hull plating to be replaced.

INS Sindhukirti’s refit has involved extensive modernisation. Like submarines refitted in Russia, its torpedo tubes were modified to fire Klub missiles at surface targets. But Sindhukirti also got additional capabilities: an MCA inertial navigation suite, a Palady nerve system, and a Pirit ship control console. Bharat Electronics Ltd has provided an indigenous Ushus sonar and a modernised CCS Mark II communications suite.

but 9 years is too long..in 9 years any one could have built a new submarine.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

Project 75i is designed to purchase 6 next generation diesel submarines with Air Independent Propulsion System (AIP) technology for Indian Navy by 2022.

Hi
Sir the timeline if I am optimistic.
1. By 2016 bids will be submitted.
2. By 2018 trails/testings would be completed.
3. By 2019 the final deal would be signed.
4. After it , the time taken to construct the first boat will be at least 4 years. Means 2023-24.