Govt mulls ‘military offensive’ against TTP

[Signalian]

One point to ponder over, where are the tribals in all of this? The TTP moves in and out freely and no one in the FATA takes responsibility for giving aid, succor and the freedom to operate to these terrorists. Where is the responsibility of the tribals in all of this?

The last time the operations were conducted to pacify these areas, an understanding was left with the tribals that they would not allow the TTP to establish a beachhead again. Yet clearly, the tribals too are playing both side of the fence. On one hand they decry government inaction, yet on the other, they are clearly hosting these elements operating across the Pak-Afghan frontiers.

The fact that they are now operating in all of KP and even in ISB goes to show the presence in Afghanistan, FATA and KP in general which are their launching pads.

When was the last time that the tribals of FATA allowed writ of Pakistan Government in their area. It wasn't called "alaka e ghair" for no reason with every criminal running to take refuge in FATA. After 90's, the hardcore militants of Afghan war settled there and were seen as perfect reflection of muslims. Locals threw themselves at their feet and made families with them combined with the luxury of travelling across border into Afghanistan at will. FATA was a sanctuary not only for criminals but for Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, etc. The Lal Masjid siege was a perfect example. A FATA of its own within Islamabad. At least infantry company level weapon was extracted from there after Ops which could fill up company's KOTE easily. Factory after factory of ammunition and IED production, tunnel after tunnel of traps and door after door was cleared in FATA. The tribals, even Levies and Khasadars tried to hide in every nook and corner when they were asked to be used as local guides to save lives of Pakistani troops. Later on TTP and other factions had plenty of scorched earth and destruction in FATA to show the tribals that this is what Pakistan Army has done to their homes. The Civilian setup and political officers failed to lay the base for new Government system in FATA and now Pakistan is back to square one, with Government thinking of another military action yet again.

 

[Trango Towers]

How pathetic

 

[SQ8]

Please provide the evidence for this claim. The truth remains that Pakistan itself is at fault, and no one else, for its present predicament.

This needs to be next to every chapter heading in Pakistani history curriculum
“Never resort to conspiracy theories on what can be explained by plain incompetence”

Simply a favorite conspiracy theory peddled here endlessly, nothing more. I can even tell you that USA and China have a joint task force to ensure Pakistan's continued stability so that Xinjiang and mainland USA remain safe.

I will stop here, believe what you will. Your ignorance will not affect the reality one bit.

More importantly - while interests may differ , the alignment on many issues remains and the liasons at Centcom never went home.

Unfortunately - when Pakistan’s allies ask for anything and advise something in their interest, how the Pakistani state and establishment leadership apparatus implements it has them more of then than not ..”We asked asked you to do a little “x”.. not a bumbling big“Y”

 

[Path-Finder]

Take your pick instead of peddling nonsense please.

You cannot afford to take on Taliban without US assistance.

Conducting military operations is an expensive affair. The past 20 years of operations against Taliban were funded by the US through the now much maligned CSF. Those funds allowed our helicopters to be refurbished, expended ordnance to be refilled, POL costs to be defrayed against the CSF accounts as well other massive costs of moving formations from their peacetime locations to staging areas and then conducting long, expensive operations.

As such, there is a clear indication of a lack of understanding of the realpolitik because in order to get business done, some understanding with the US at both the political and military levels is needed. Gen Bajwa is seen as an "American Dog" in your eyes because he saw the reality for what it was and dealt with the Americans. This has always been the case unless you were living in the fantasy land of Ertugral.

The general populace is fed anti-Americanism by our system that tends to put a negative light on all things American despite the fact that the US has been the single greatest provider of assistance to Pakistan in all of its history. Obviously this is not mentioned anywhere in our texts because it runs contrary to the nonsense that is peddled by our mullah/center of right leaning parties. Otherwise your Pakistani generals are as or more patriotic than your Khan sahib when it comes to the interests of this country.

This comic piece ends on a drum roll. Bajwa the patriot, more patriotic than IK!

Mission accomplished, the amrikans want to start drone bombing again.

welldone.

 

[VCheng]

The general populace is fed anti-Americanism by our system that tends to put a negative light on all things American despite the fact that the US has been the single greatest provider of assistance to Pakistan in all of its history. Obviously this is not mentioned anywhere in our texts because it runs contrary to the nonsense that is peddled by our mullah/center of right leaning parties.

It is high time for those who know better to set the record straight.

 

[TheSolution]

When was the last time that the tribals of FATA allowed writ of Pakistan Government in their area. It wasn't called "alaka e ghair" for no reason with every criminal running to take refuge in FATA. After 90's, the hardcore militants of Afghan war settled there and were seen as perfect reflection of muslims. Locals threw themselves at their feet and made families with them combined with the luxury of travelling across border into Afghanistan at will. FATA was a sanctuary not only for criminals but for Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, etc. The Lal Masjid siege was a perfect example. A FATA of its own within Islamabad. At least infantry company level weapon was extracted from there after Ops which could fill up company's KOTE easily. Factory after factory of ammunition and IED production, tunnel after tunnel of traps and door after door was cleared in FATA. The tribals, even Levies and Khasadars tried to hide in every nook and corner when they were asked to be used as local guides to save lives of Pakistani troops. Later on TTP and other factions had plenty of scorched earth and destruction in FATA to show the tribals that this is what Pakistan Army has done to their homes. The Civilian setup and political officers failed to lay the base for new Government system in FATA and now Pakistan is back to square one, with Government thinking of another military action yet again.

Is the army used to the terrain and geography of ex-FATA by now?

 

[Clutch]

This will only happen when and if and only if the Americans approve. Otherwise, they will do nothing.

 

[TheSolution]

Take your pick instead of peddling nonsense please.

You cannot afford to take on Taliban without US assistance.

Conducting military operations is an expensive affair. The past 20 years of operations against Taliban were funded by the US through the now much maligned CSF. Those funds allowed our helicopters to be refurbished, expended ordnance to be refilled, POL costs to be defrayed against the CSF accounts as well other massive costs of moving formations from their peacetime locations to staging areas and then conducting long, expensive operations.

As such, there is a clear indication of a lack of understanding of the realpolitik because in order to get business done, some understanding with the US at both the political and military levels is needed. Gen Bajwa is seen as an "American Dog" in your eyes because he saw the reality for what it was and dealt with the Americans. This has always been the case unless you were living in the fantasy land of Ertugral.

The general populace is fed anti-Americanism by our system that tends to put a negative light on all things American despite the fact that the US has been the single greatest provider of assistance to Pakistan in all of its history. Obviously this is not mentioned anywhere in our texts because it runs contrary to the nonsense that is peddled by our mullah/center of right leaning parties. Otherwise your Pakistani generals are as or more patriotic than your Khan sahib when it comes to the interests of this country.

Awaam don't really use their own brain, generally people are sheep - they go with the general flow.

In our region the US is the scapegoat, essentially the shaytaan - wherever they see it's mention they automatically assume negative things rather than looking at the specific context.

This is mainly due to Imran Khan's politics of 'absolutely not' and tugging on their feelings regarding American bases. They are of course opportunist and looking out for their own interests, but that's just geopolitics and you need to use that to your advantage.

America could literally be providing military support and aid packages for the economy but the moment they see it's name mentioned it all becomes a massive conspiracy theory and inherently a bad thing. (Even though it ultimately helps them)

This is why I pretty much hate all political parties, the others were shit from the getgo, but IK literally raised an army of sheep and conspiracy theorists who can't think for themselves or for the greater interest of Pakistan. They literally parrot any conspiracy theory related to him without any self-thought and agree with all his policies blindly. It's become a blind cult.

 

[blain2]

Obviously in some capacity you also profit from American meddling in Pakistan.

If Pakistan is such a weak entity unable to take on the Taliban why does it continue to have a useless army armed with nuclear weapons? How much money does it require to feed one of the largest armies in the world since we are talking about spending money. Why not abandon this army all together which is unable to fight a war without money provided by outsiders? What purpose does an army serve when it requires money from outsiders to fight expensive wars as you claim?

The million dollar question, how will the Pakistani army fight India without US funds? I suppose when India wages a war against Pakistan, the Pak army won't last a day without funds from the USA? After all, fighting wars is an expensive undertaking as you claim.

It is your army that used the Mullahs for their personal benefit. These are the same Mullahs that are your heroes when you need them to wage a Jihad against the Russians during the Cold War. When you send them to Kashmir to fight your war.

Your army has a habit of pushing people under the bus. First you turn them into heroes and use them as allies. Once they are not required your army turns them into villains.

You are in a very tough spot now and all on your own. You wonder why the people have abandoned you. With the TTP and BLA wreaking havoc don't be surprised if people lack sympathy for your cause.

Yes, the Americans fund me personally so I can wage a propaganda campaign on their behalf here on PDF and elsewhere. While I am at it, let me also disclose that like all other Khakis, I have billions in assets in the US and elsewhere so this "American Meddling" is a must for me. Khush? By the way, while I am at it, I can also offer up names or entire lists of PTI members (and also PDM ones), benefactors and supporters who milk the US on one hand and then curse it on the other, if you'd like.

Also, if it were up to great statesmen (like all PTI walay here) like you, you'd disband this good-for-nothing army and have our ameer-ul-momineen, IK, lead the charge and I am sure in no time he will secure Pakistan just as he has done his entire political life.

Now coming to the more serious issue, armies need funding to buy munitions and sustain logistics. In case, you were not paying attention, in the past few weeks no less than the Ministry of Defense has written to the GoP asking for availability of forex to make military purchases. Our government has no forex to spare for military acquisitions without going to extremes (which the government and military would only do in the face of an existentialist threat ala India) such as putting all else on hold, default if need be, just to be able to sustain the national military effort against an external threat.

In the case of TTP et-al, this does not apply as such Pakistan has to find alternate means through which Pakistan can sustain the fight against the TTP. Enter Americans with their FMS/FMF/MNNA programs. So comparing Pakistan's wherewithal to fight the Indians vs. TTP are two different things by a magnitude of 100 at least. So please understand these basic things instead of comparing apples and oranges for the sake of making an argument.

Also, as for your "Your xyz" statements, perhaps you don't understand that what is yours is mine and what is mine is yours in this godforsaken land of Pakistan and no amount of disowning will do. If not then let's say for the sake of argument that the military is "mine", but then what about responsibility for the upkeep and unity of Pakistan amongst the hordes of illiterate masses making up the Pakistani nation who I would think would be "yours"? They are just as much guilty of being blind sheep, outright dishonest (ala tax responsibilities among other things) and producing political nincompoops who cannot look beyond their own noses. What about their sins and missteps?

To your last sentence, the army will do what it needs to and that too with or without people's support because it is the Pakistani "establishment". It will find ways to sort out the TTP with or without "your" people's support because that is what it does, people's support be damned.

 

[VCheng]

To your last sentence, the army will do what it needs to and that too with or without people's support because it is the Pakistani "establishment". It will find ways to sort out the TTP with or without "your" people's support because that is what it does, people's support be damned.

There is no other choice but to deal with this grave existential threat to Pakistan, by whatever means necessary and available.

 

[blain2]

This comic piece ends on a drum roll. Bajwa the patriot, more patriotic than IK!

Mission accomplished, the amrikans want to start drone bombing again.

welldone.

Ok so I take it that the only true patriot, mard-e-momin left in Pakistan is IK now? Baqi saray tau fazool hain, right? There are others besides Bajwa who are "generals", "officers" minding the military, mind you.

I like IK for what he is (I actually prefer him over other pols), but this extreme hero-worship makes his supporters look bad. Think for yourselves a bit instead of exhibiting sheeple like tendencies.

 

[VCheng]

Think for yourselves a bit instead of exhibiting sheeple like tendencies.

Please keep in mind that the products of the system put in place by Gen Zia, and actively nurtured by the military since his time, cannot help but be sheeple for that is what it is designed to do.

 

[blain2]

When was the last time that the tribals of FATA allowed writ of Pakistan Government in their area. It wasn't called "alaka e ghair" for no reason with every criminal running to take refuge in FATA. After 90's, the hardcore militants of Afghan war settled there and were seen as perfect reflection of muslims. Locals threw themselves at their feet and made families with them combined with the luxury of travelling across border into Afghanistan at will. FATA was a sanctuary not only for criminals but for Uzbeks, Tajiks, Chechens, etc. The Lal Masjid siege was a perfect example. A FATA of its own within Islamabad. At least infantry company level weapon was extracted from there after Ops which could fill up company's KOTE easily. Factory after factory of ammunition and IED production, tunnel after tunnel of traps and door after door was cleared in FATA. The tribals, even Levies and Khasadars tried to hide in every nook and corner when they were asked to be used as local guides to save lives of Pakistani troops. Later on TTP and other factions had plenty of scorched earth and destruction in FATA to show the tribals that this is what Pakistan Army has done to their homes. The Civilian setup and political officers failed to lay the base for new Government system in FATA and now Pakistan is back to square one, with Government thinking of another military action yet again.

Thanks, this is why I was hinting at the need for "shared" responsibility/ownership. People here blame the military and government for playing "double-game", but no sense of accountability for the masses who more than partake in their own double-games, whether its the TTP/FATA people, BLA/Balochistan natives and even our pols lying with the establishment and then bad-mouthing it (obviously the establishment does the same).

Please keep in mind that the products of the system put in place by Gen Zia, and actively nurtured by the military since his time, cannot help but be sheeple for that is what it is designed to do.

I was there. The rote learning, the shalwar-qameez mandate, the Urdu-medium dumbing down of Pakistan, the erosion of competitiveness in Pakistanis. Seen it all...

 

[Path-Finder]

Ok so I take it that the only true patriot, mard-e-momin left in Pakistan is IK now? Baqi saray tau fazool hain, right? There are others besides Bajwa who are "generals", "officers" minding the military, mind you.

I like IK for what he is (I actually prefer him over other pols), but this extreme hero-worship makes his supporters look bad. Think for yourselves a bit instead of exhibiting sheeple like tendencies.

If we can do one thing and look at the bigger picture. Or look at things/events that are happening in front of us.

Is the general public's love for their army same as it was or has it sunk all the way down. gone into the negative.

so many people who passionately defended the army are cursing it (rightfully so).

If the whole institution has decided to go on a suicide mission then why has this institution decided to go against the public that gave them unconditional love?

see what you cannot do is first instigate the move that causes agitation and then demand that the ego gets a continuous massage as well.

I will end it on this. When will the people of Pakistan get a NRO? what did the 200+ million do to deserve this?

 

[Olympus81]

Last time round the CIA had to arm twist Pakistan’s security forces to believing that going after TTP is in their interest.

Even the most basic of national security concepts need to be taught to the Pakistani by the Yanks.

I seriously doubt the knowledge and the will of the higher ups in the army.