Govt can invoke Article 6 to try terror suspects instead of military courts: SC

[Shamain]

The first few points are fine. The rest is something I disagree with, that last part especially is the back to square one argument. Also, I do not see the need of the army here, though I do see massive damage their over-involvement could cause yet again.

Where we are right now starting from 16 dec 2014 uptil now is all due to army involvement...warna hum kahan hotay...further down in dark ditches. I still cant forget that dec post massacrre time period and piercing as hell despondency i had sensed.

As of ur prev post bahi iwas saying that when even a single vote is rigged ,and i am not talking abt sold out votes and biradari system cuz if one engages in these things then the onus is upon the person himself, but as of rigging when even single vote gets stolen then democracy goes out the window.our democracy foundation are way shaky to be called democracy.
Rest i never said uproot the system ,let it stay , and things shud go on with army's on and off intervention.

And honestly first and foremost thing is fixing the voting transparency issue , in the past byelections and perhaps lg too we managed to have fair results only thnx to rangers presence.
Anyways, i have just shared my pov, obv we all think and percieve things differently. Aap bhi theek hee hon gay pata nahi ,i am kind of a slow person.

And wait @Jungibaaz bahi u know why i always hate martial law cuz armymen take decisions in a rather inflexible and strict way without much ado and case in point is irfan baloch ,araam say utha kay foran ban day detay hain

 

[salarsikander]

Fed gov can invoke treason charges against state....????? What does that all mean and how are they comparing article 6(iknow what artice 6 is)and military courts. Why i am not getting it

Hi,
Thanks for following me and considering me good enough to answer your question
My dear Shamain, there is simply no need for making it complicated, it all too simple.

Because, this time around as Army chief said we will go against anyone who is involved in terrorism, even if they belong to certain political party, institution, nation or any other religious affiliation for that matter.

This statement alone is powerful enough to send the down shiver down the white collars of govt and the black courts of judiciary. Both of them have been playing with their power for far too long and on the incapacity to dispense justice, we have seen tremendous loss of life.

These monkey courts along with government will try every possible move to hamper the MC. because they themselves have actually in a way assisted the terrorists by not dispensing justice and not only that, they re actually hampering the efforts of army's resolve against terrorism too.

 

[Shamain]

Hi,
Thanks for following me and considering me good enough to answer your question
My dear Shamain, there is simply no need for making it complicated, it all too simple.

Because, this time around as Army chief said we will go against anyone who is involved in terrorism, even if they belong to certain political party, institution, nation or any other religious affiliation for that matter.

This statement alone is powerful enough to send the down shiver down the white collars of govt and the black courts of judiciary. Both of them have been playing with their power for far too long and on the incapacity to dispense justice, we have seen tremendous loss of life.

These monkey courts along with government will try every possible move to hamper the MC. because they themselves have actually in a way assisted the terrorists by not dispensing justice and not only that, they re actually hampering the efforts of army's resolve against terrorism too.

Thanx salar for detailed response but what idont get how article 6could be used to shut down military courts ,which is something title of news says.

 

[salarsikander]

Thanx salar for detailed response but what idont get how article 6could be used to shut down military courts ,which is something title of news says.

Hi,

A sold-out judiciary can easily manipulate and then interpret those articles.

What remains to be seen is how far they will go to provide in essence (illegal) blanket cover to save themselves before invoking tit-tat for response from military.

The irony is that they will use the treason charges against the very institution that is protecting the country, but they will fail to dispense justice when all politicians have well crossed the boundaries of treason, One such example is your memogate scandal.

reactions as such are only found when a party to case knows that all loose ends (of their own doing) are coming strangle to them

 

[VCheng]

That stage has not been reached yet, I would rather say this state needs chemotherapy, there is a malignancy and it needs aggressive treatment. That stage could be reached if things go on this track till 2020, because a strong state will be needed to deal with the realities of the region which are bleak at best.

This stage was reached in the late 80s Sir, and became critical in the post-9/11 world. There is no strong State left, only a strong Army, which cannot resuscitate everything by itself and take on all the roles needed. Its past policies have already destroyed what Pakistan needs the most now: effective civilian governance structures and institutions. Calling a Code is the only option now but there is no trained team to do that either. I doubt if prayers alone would be very effective, either.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Maybe you are right, but I speak from my personal understanding. I would not support total martial law, but total corrupt democracy is not ok with me either. Maybe with age I get wiser. Thank you for sharing your point of view. I guess we understand each other, whether we agree or not is inconsequential.

I do understand your view. And I reciprocate your courteousness, thank you indeed for your point of view. It is certainly a point of view many Pakistanis carry, and one I've come across on PDF, and it is also very rational, it pains me too to see Pakistan suffer because of incompetence, corruption, mismanagement and above all political instability. Change is certainly necessary, and don't worry, even on this seemingly hopeless path, it will come God willing.

 

[VCheng]

I do understand your view. And I reciprocate your courteousness, thank you indeed for your point of view. It is certainly a point of view many Pakistanis carry, and one I've come across on PDF, and it is also very rational, it pains me too to see Pakistan suffer because of incompetence, corruption, mismanagement and above all political instability. Change is certainly necessary, and don't worry, even on this seemingly hopeless path, it will come God willing.

Change won't happen if we keep on doing what we have been doing, that much is clear.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Where we are right now starting from 16 dec 2014 uptil now is all due to army involvement...warna hum kahan hotay...further down in dark ditches. I still cant forget that dec post massacrre time period and piercing as hell despondency i had sensed.

As of ur prev post bahi iwas saying that when even a single vote is rigged ,and i am not talking abt sold out votes and biradari system cuz if one engages in these things then the onus is upon the person himself, but as of rigging when even single vote gets stolen then democracy goes out the window.our democracy foundation are way shaky to be called democracy.
Rest i never said uproot the system ,let it stay , and things shud go on with army's on and off intervention.

And honestly first and foremost thing is fixing the voting transparency issue , in the past byelections and perhaps lg too we managed to have fair results only thnx to rangers presence.
Anyways, i have just shared my pov, obv we all think and percieve things differently. Aap bhi theek hee hon gay pata nahi ,i am kind of a slow person.

If I ignore for a moment the politics and look at the army's action in Waziristan, Zarb-e-Azb and in Karachi as a whole, then what they are doing is very good for us indeed. Then again, they are the only ones capable of taking on armed gangs and militants. That's what any country should want of it's armed forces, nonetheless the sacrifices aren't to be taken lightly.

Now here's where I make the distinction between foot soldier, and the much higher ups involved in politics.
These guys you should not think of as foot soldiers. And I make now an even bigger distinction, the retired general class is one that seems to have in it, quite a few people attempting to use the army and interfere in civilian politics.

It is being done under the radar and major attempts were made by some as recently as only a year ago. Many senior members here on this forum hinted towards this but never really said it overtly at the time, without saying too much myself, I agree with them.

So, it's not so much that what they do in the short term that's bad, in fact it seems very good, it's how they do it that will upset the balance again in the long term, and this applied not just to all out dictatorship, but also every moment of overstepping the line, going beyond their mandate.

And wait @Jungibaaz bahi u know why i always hate martial law cuz armymen take decisions in a rather inflexible and strict way without much ado and case in point is irfan baloch ,araam say utha kay foran ban day detay hain

I'm sure he'll be kind if he finds out what a fan of his work you are.

 

[Shamain]

If I ignore for a moment the politics and look at the army's action in Waziristan, Zarb-e-Azb and in Karachi as a whole, then what they are doing is very good for us indeed. Then again, they are the only ones capable of taking on armed gangs and militants. That's what any country should want of it's armed forces, nonetheless the sacrifices aren't to be taken lightly.

Now here's where I make the distinction between foot soldier, and the much higher ups involved in politics.
These guys you should not think of as foot soldiers. And I make now an even bigger distinction, the retired general class is one that seems to have in it, quite a few people attempting to use the army and interfere in civilian politics.

It is being done under the radar and major attempts were made by some as recently as only a year ago. Many senior members here on this forum hinted towards this but never really said it overtly at the time, without saying too much myself, I agree with them.

So, it's not so much that what they do in the short term that's bad, in fact it seems very good, it's how they do it that will upset the balance again in the long term, and this applied not just to all out dictatorship, but also every moment of overstepping the line, going beyond their mandate.



I'm sure he'll be kind if he finds out what a fan of his work you are.

I think i get what u are pointing at. Yes uhave a valid point when it comes to military elite. But iwould say at times i do appreciate their interference cuz else our politicians are too coward, selfserving and wuld easily crumble down and succumb before agressive neighbourhood power .With those continuous interferences by army this whole succumb-show gets curbed , atleast in pakistani nations interest. For instance, i believe that its military behind the non issuance of mfn to india,which is the BEST BEST thing that military would have done .

You admittedly have raised a valid point.

Lolzz @ irfan bahi part. I hope i havent said anything that would warrant a ban from him lolzzzzzz.

 

[Donatello]

Sir, the whole country does that in Ramadan, not just doctors, who are part of the same society, to be fair.

But their job isn't.......they are required to go above and beyond the call.......many people don't become doctors even though they could......because it is a very different form of responsibility.

 

[VCheng]

But their job isn't.......they are required to go above and beyond the call.......many people don't become doctors even though they could......because it is a very different form of responsibility.

Doctors are just as human as anybody else, and therefore cannot be expected to behave like angels all the time, only on occasion.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

This stage was reached in the late 80s Sir, and became critical in the post-9/11 world. There is no strong State left, only a strong Army, which cannot resuscitate everything by itself and take on all the roles needed. Its past policies have already destroyed what Pakistan needs the most now: effective civilian governance structures and institutions. Calling a Code is the only option now but there is no trained team to do that either. I doubt if prayers alone would be very effective, either.

do you believe a western style democracy is the ultimate answer for us? if we keep faith in "Jamhuriyat ka Husn" then ultimately all will be gold?

 

[coffee_cup]

Pakistani courts are only for rich and powerful

The poor either don't get justice at all, or get it only after half of their lives are already over.


**** this justice system and these courts!

 

[VCheng]

do you believe a western style democracy is the ultimate answer for us? if we keep faith in "Jamhuriyat ka Husn" then ultimately all will be gold?

I believe that Pakistan will be able to work out a proper system of governance that delivers for it only after its population has the requisites of social development, specially literacy. Whether it takes a benevolent dictator like Lee Kuan Yew or a bloody revolution to get to that point, I do not know. However, it is clear that to function as a large, responsible regional power in the 21st century that is capable of playing its role internationally, it must have a system that has been shown to work, and that is a secular democracy with open markets. What it is called does not matter.

Having said that, I can also see that some societies are just not meant to be democratic.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I believe that Pakistan will be able to work out a proper system of governance that delivers for it only after its population has the requisites of social development, specially literacy. Whether it takes a benevolent dictator like Lee Kuan Yew or a bloody revolution to get to that point, I do not know. However, it is clear that to function as a large, responsible regional power in the 21st century that is capable of playing its role internationally, it must have a system that has been shown to work, and that is a secular democracy with open markets. What it is called does not matter.

Having said that, I can also see that some societies are just not meant to be democratic.

and yet they work just fine examples like Arab monarchies