Google vs China thread

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Google with lose 60% of its net value when it does that

 

[Kavin]

Reporters' emails hacked in China

26 minutes ago

Foreign journalists in China said that their Google email accounts had been hacked in attacks similar to the ones against human rights activists.

The internet search giant has said it is considering pulling out of the country because of the hacking incidents.

In announcing the possible exit from China last week, Google did not say how the accounts with its Gmail email service were hacked into or by whom, but information has since trickled out.

The Foreign Correspondents' Club of China sent an email yesterday to its members warning that reporters in at least two news bureaux in Beijing said their Gmail accounts had been broken into, with their emails surreptitiously forwarded to unfamiliar accounts.

Although the warning did not name the organisations, one of the accounts belonged to an Associated Press journalist.

John Daniszewski, senior managing editor for international news at the news agency in New York, said he deplored the breach and said AP would be investigating to determine if any vital information was compromised.

The foreign correspondents' club asked its members to be vigilant in protecting their email accounts and computers from attack.

"We remind all members that journalists in China have been particular targets of hacker attacks in the last two years," the club's message read.

"Please be very careful what you click on, and run virus checks regularly."

Google's announcement on January 12 that it might quit the huge Chinese market shocked the international business community and cheered many free speech advocates.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

http://current.com/items/91659341_the-google-toilet.htm

 

[stax]

China does not control access to the Internet. Care to guess who does?

I totally agree to control access to internet. Many youth in China are being damaged by internet online game currently!
They don't go to school or work, just play online games in front of the computer! They can play day and night even no sleep!
I think internet online game is really cyber drug!

 

[gambit]

I totally agree to control access to internet. Many youth in China are being damaged by internet online game currently!
They don't go to school or work, just play online games in front of the computer! They can play day and night even no sleep!
I think internet online game is really cyber drug!

What I mean is that the Internet is US created and we control the root servers, that mean we can deny Internet access at the national level. We can take the paternalistic attitude that the PRC government have over its citizens and consider China's cyber attacks against US to be juvenile and hostile and sever China's links to that same cyber universe. Sounds good?

 

[Communist]

What I mean is that the Internet is US created and we control the root servers, that mean we can deny Internet access at the national level. We can take the paternalistic attitude that the PRC government have over its citizens and consider China's cyber attacks against US to be juvenile and hostile and sever China's links to that same cyber universe. Sounds good?

"We can do that, we can do this, we can take that, we can take this.. "

Such lectures sound good. No offence. But the question is why you are not doing that or this.

I know you cannot answer. But I know you know the answer.

 

[gambit]

"We can do that, we can do this, we can take that, we can take this.. "

Such lectures sound good. No offence. But the question is why you are not doing that or this.

I know you cannot answer. But I know you know the answer.

Buddy...If I have my way...China would NOT be severed from the Internet. Instead, I would direct the DoD to treat China, after the collapse of the Soviets, as an electronic hostile and engage China in every aspects of cyber and electronic psychological warfare. Instead of cheap pistols clandestinely delivered to resistance forces in WW II, we would be delivering PDA-type gear specifically designed to access the Internete wirelessly via satellites. Would we care if the PRC government get its hands on one of these devices? Heck...No. The more people can access the Internet unrestricted the better, especially PLA soldiers, up and down all ranks. Viktor Belenko defected to the US with MIG-25 Foxbat. See if you can find out how many other, including Chinese military members, defected.

It is our shortsightedness that we did not treat China as a hostile the way we did with the Soviets. There were signs of internal rot for the Soviets that we did not know about and our defense buildups accelerated the cancer that eventually killed the Soviets. We should have done the same against China on the cyberwarfare front. Tiananmen Square was not the only expression of dissent among the Chinese citizens. There were others that the world barely know about. Against a concerted cyber and psychological warfare regime, the PRC would either collapse like the Soviets...Or engage in open warfare against US in Asia.

For now...If there is a shooting war between US and the PRC, have no doubt that as we control the root servers of the Internet, we can control how the PRC travel in cyberspace. Severing the PRC's link to the Internet would do US no good. But as an incentive for the PRC to behave prior to this shooting war, we an always deny the PRC's access to the Internet for a few days and assess the response from both the citizenry and the government.

 

[grey boy 2]

Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage - People's Daily Online Jan 19 2010

It is ordinary for a commercial company to enter and exit the Chinese market, but this is not the case for Google. Firstly, it gave the Chinese government an ultimatum, requiring the latter to make a concession, which is obviously political in nature. In addition, Google's move won the collective support from the U.S. government, congress and western media agencies, so this event has completely been politicized. Such politicization was not provoked by China, but imposed by the U.S. and the west onto China.

As to how the event has gone so far, the Google event looks more like another "Akmal Shaikh" event, and perhaps even worse. Of course, the result of the event must be that Chinese government will never violate the rules of the market and laws for the sake of a commercial company, let alone give up its political bottom line and diplomatic principles because of a note from the U.S. government.

It is a lie to claim that the Internet is an absolutely free space without regulations. The truth is that it is the extension of the real world. Therefore, implementing monitoring according to a country's national context is what any government has to do. The Chinese society has generally less information bearing capacity than developed countries such as the U.S., which is an objective reality that no one can deny. Chinese intellectuals living in China should show understanding to the motherland's weakness. China will certainly and gradually change this reality, but the starting point of the change should be in the interests of the entire Chinese society instead of for the convenience or desire of a small group of people. In fact, both western politicians and media leaders understand this; those who do not understand this are either unwilling to understand China due to cultural arrogance or pretend not to know it. In fact, world countries including the U.S. do not permit the existence of a laisser-faire Internet world either. To combat terrorism after the "9/11" terrorist attack, the U.S. has permitted police to search civilian emails and even monitor their communications without permission. Western countries such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the U.K., Germany and Sweden have also passed similar bills.

In recent years, China has sincerely opened up to the outside world. However, China follows its own course while learning from the west and its reluctance to copy the Internet control and supervision mode of the U.S. does not contradict its adherence to the "4 Cardinal Principles" released in the early stage of the opening up and reform. At that time, even in China, some people raised doubts about the Chinese government's choice. However, when looking back, we now can find that the government's choice is correct. In contrast, Gorbachev was once widely praised by the west and his political reform even won much admiration in China. But, it was Gorbachev that finally ruined the Soviet Union. Therefore, China must not follow the western world's practice on crucial issues such as Internet control and supervision. Of course, China is progressing and its Internet industry should advance accordingly. However, China must have its own plan on how to regulate and deregulate the Internet and should not and will not follow orders from Google's CEO and the U.S. Department of State.

Google's CEO Eric Schmidt stated that he "loves China and the Chinese people." The author of this article holds that such love should not be empty talk. Google should show its sincerity by taking practical actions and should first abide by China's laws and not seek any privilege in China, stop launching surprise attacks against China if it really "loves China." At the same time, Google should take the Chinese people's feelings into consideration and stop using Chinese customers as hostage to confront the Chinese government.

Several days before the Google declared that it planned to withdraw from China, the U.S. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton held a small evening dinner party. The guests she invited were just the leaders of the powerful information enterprises such as the Microsoft, Twitter and Google. The two affairs were so close that people would unavoidably think they were connected. After this political affliction, the Google has already made itself in an awkward situation. If it withdraws from China, it will lose a market consisting of 360 million netizens; if it does not, it will be hijacked by the U.S. government.

By now, a year and a half have passed since the financial crisis, which badly damaged the reputation of the U.S., broke out. From a series of movements that the U.S. government made recently, we can see that the U.S. is trying to recover and maintain its own outlook of values. We do not hope that giant multinational enterprises such as Google will become pure political tools for the U.S. to export its own concepts of values. A lot of Chinese people like Google, but they do not want to become tools being used by the Google.

By People's Daily Online

 

[gambit]

Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage - People's Daily Online Jan 19 2010

<snipped>

The Chinese society has generally less information bearing capacity than developed countries such as the U.S., which is an objective reality that no one can deny.

<snipped>

By People's Daily Online

Right...So the PRC government is saying that the Chinese people, including the hundreds of millions who are smart, educated and adept enough on using the Internet, is STILL too stupid to handle information, especially when they can do so AT THEIR OWN LEISURE, thus requiring state paternalism for their own good.

Thank you...Chinese communists...for insulting the Chinese civilization in particular and all Asians in general as well as being an unwitting accomplice to racism against Asians. As of now, any despot seeking to control his people will have a new excuse as demonstrated by the PRC government.

 

[Communist]

Buddy...If I have my way...China would NOT be severed from the Internet. Instead, I would direct the DoD to treat China, after the collapse of the Soviets, as an electronic hostile and engage China in every aspects of cyber and electronic psychological warfare. Instead of cheap pistols clandestinely delivered to resistance forces in WW II, we would be delivering PDA-type gear specifically designed to access the Internete wirelessly via satellites. Would we care if the PRC government get its hands on one of these devices? Heck...No. The more people can access the Internet unrestricted the better, especially PLA soldiers, up and down all ranks. Viktor Belenko defected to the US with MIG-25 Foxbat. See if you can find out how many other, including Chinese military members, defected.

It is our shortsightedness that we did not treat China as a hostile the way we did with the Soviets. There were signs of internal rot for the Soviets that we did not know about and our defense buildups accelerated the cancer that eventually killed the Soviets. We should have done the same against China on the cyberwarfare front. Tiananmen Square was not the only expression of dissent among the Chinese citizens. There were others that the world barely know about. Against a concerted cyber and psychological warfare regime, the PRC would either collapse like the Soviets...Or engage in open warfare against US in Asia.

For now...If there is a shooting war between US and the PRC, have no doubt that as we control the root servers of the Internet, we can control how the PRC travel in cyberspace. Severing the PRC's link to the Internet would do US no good. But as an incentive for the PRC to behave prior to this shooting war, we an always deny the PRC's access to the Internet for a few days and assess the response from both the citizenry and the government.

A hate post.

I did not expect such post from a military professional.

You hate China, you hate Chinese, and your post shows only that. You have not answered me why USA is not doing anything if it really controls major web servers according to your claim. I knew you would not be able to answer. But I did not know you would make such reply.

If I have my way, I would do this... I would do that... again lecturing out of tremendous hatred and frustration. Everything is not that simple. Waging war is not that simple. You may personally love war and hate China, but that does not mean all your dear ones love war. USA cannot afford to wage a war on China. Just cannot. Yes, if you destroy China using nukes, China can also destroy you by nukes, chemical or biological weapons, because China has the right to self defense. And, for example, if you kill my family, do you think I would worship your family?

Now ask your family members first, are they ready to die with you just because you want to commit suicide? I fear they might send you to a psychiatrist.

Yes, you have the right to regret on behalf of your USA for any shortsightedness or long sightedness for not treating China in a hostile way. But if I have my way, I would do that, do this.. what is this?

Who are you? Do you matter?

Perhaps you have started thinking of yourself someone larger than life. There are billions of such people who hate China and think in your way... but China, a five thousand years old civilization is still there. Will Durant rightly commented on China in 1935: “No victory of arms, or tyranny of alien finance, can long suppress a nation so rich in resources and vitality. The invader will lose funds or patience before the loins of China will lose virility; within a century China will have absorbed and civilized her conquerors, and will have learned all the technique of what transiently bears the name of modern industry; roads and communications will give her unity, economy and thrift will give her funds, and a strong government will give her order and peace.” (p.823)

The Story of Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Stop watching Hollywood fiction movies too much...

 

[grey boy 2]

Right...So the PRC government is saying that the Chinese people, including the hundreds of millions who are smart, educated and adept enough on using the Internet, is STILL too stupid to handle information, especially when they can do so AT THEIR OWN LEISURE, thus requiring state paternalism for their own good.

Thank you...Chinese communists...for insulting the Chinese civilization in particular and all Asians in general as well as being an unwitting accomplice to racism against Asians. As of now, any despot seeking to control his people will have a new excuse as demonstrated by the PRC government.

HaHa, does your rants apply to " South Vietnam" OOps, sorry, i

mean "Vietnamese communist" too ?

I always got a kick out of those miserable cowards on the internet

hiding behind certain flags, pretended to be someone which they are

not. The only reasonable logic i could imagine will be;

(1) Feeling insecure or shameful about his origin ?

(2) Enjoying the feeling of like a fox hiding behind a tiger ?

 

[gambit]

A hate post.

I did not expect such post from a military professional.

You hate China, you hate Chinese, and your post shows only that. You have not answered me why USA is not doing anything if it really controls major web servers according to your claim. I knew you would not be able to answer. But I did not know you would make such reply.

Just because the US can do <something> it does not mean the US must do it. Perhaps if you actually spend sometime in the military you would understand? By your argument, may be you could explain why the PRC have not invaded Taiwan yet.

If I have my way, I would do this... I would do that... again lecturing out of tremendous hatred and frustration. Everything is not that simple. Waging war is not that simple. You may personally love war and hate China, but that does not mean all your dear ones love war. USA cannot afford to wage a war on China. Just cannot. Yes, if you destroy China using nukes, China can also destroy you by nukes, chemical or biological weapons, because China has the right to self defense. And, for example, if you kill my family, do you think I would worship your family?

Now ask your family members first, are they ready to die with you just because you want to commit suicide? I fear they might send you to a psychiatrist.

Yes, you have the right to regret on behalf of your USA for any shortsightedness or long sightedness for not treating China in a hostile way. But if I have my way, I would do that, do this.. what is this?

Who are you? Do you matter?

This section reads like it came from a 12yr old.

Perhaps you have started thinking of yourself someone larger than life. There are billions of such people who hate China and think in your way... but China, a five thousand years old civilization is still there. Will Durant rightly commented on China in 1935: &#8220;No victory of arms, or tyranny of alien finance, can long suppress a nation so rich in resources and vitality. The invader will lose funds or patience before the loins of China will lose virility; within a century China will have absorbed and civilized her conquerors, and will have learned all the technique of what transiently bears the name of modern industry; roads and communications will give her unity, economy and thrift will give her funds, and a strong government will give her order and peace.&#8221; (p.823)

The Story of Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Stop watching Hollywood fiction movies too much...

It is sad that you cannot see the irony of quoting Durant, particularly the 'invader' bit. So explain to the readership as to WHO and WHAT are responsible for China's gaps in economic, technology, human rights and overall prestige? Who suppressed the Chinese people's creativity and entrepreneurship? Could it be the people related to your handle on this forum? Look at Japan and Taiwan and be embarrassed for China. For half a century, China lags behind an enemy and a 'renegade' province despite living on a land wealthy with natural resources. If credit should be given where it is due, so does blame and the blame for China's relative backwardness should be heaped on the communists' heads. So who was the invader responsible?

 

[gambit]

HaHa, does your rants apply to " South Vietnam" OOps, sorry, i

mean "Vietnamese communist" too ?

I always got a kick out of those miserable cowards on the internet

hiding behind certain flags, pretended to be someone which they are

not. The only reasonable logic i could imagine will be;

(1) Feeling insecure or shameful about his origin ?

(2) Enjoying the feeling of like a fox hiding behind a tiger ?

You are not worth my time, loser, since even your own government called you stupid...

Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage - People's Daily Online

The Chinese society has generally less information bearing capacity than developed countries such as the U.S., which is an objective reality that no one can deny.

Got that? The PRC government that you support is telling, not just US, but THE WORLD, that the Chinese people is incapable of processing information as well as the white man. All Asians, including the Pakistanis on this forum, should thank the PRC government for giving the Asians this backhanded slap.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

China does not control access to the Internet. Care to guess who does?

Google.cn can go back to USA

I object to internet censorship.

But I strongly agree with Chinese govenment that they block any intentionally anti-China propaganda website : Tibet independence, East Turkistan terrorism, Taiwan independence, FLG, also Western-style Pornographic or Gambling sites.

 

[grey boy 2]

You are not worth my time, loser, since even your own government called you stupid...

Google, do not take Chinese netizens hostage - People's Daily Online

Got that? The PRC government that you support is telling, not just US, but THE WORLD, that the Chinese people is incapable of processing information as well as the white man. All Asians, including the Pakistanis on this forum, should thank the PRC government for giving the Asians this backhanded slap.

Ouch !! reality does hurt ? you are what you are, thats nothing you

can do about it, your imagining superior ego will always shadowed

under your real inferior complex inside your stupid narrow mind.

Look between your legs, see whether you got the balls to answer one

simple question from me;

Whats the real reason behind all your China bashing ?

My answer= Because you blame China for the vanished of your origin

country (South-Vietnam) on the world map period.

Whats your take ?