Google vs China thread

[gambit]

pls don't find reasons for the google's failure,400million users are not stupid,baidu and Google can survive from tens of search engines because Baidu did well in Chinese and Google did well in Einglish,that's why they can share the 85% of the market.The Google's Chinese search engine is stupid compare with its Einglish engine,Baidu did well on its Chinese engine but Einglish.In china every one use Chinese but only a small part use both Chinese and Einglish.

What does this has to do with the issue at hand? Google is charging that according to their investigation, the database break-ins had its origins in mainland China. The exploit code is now public for study. If Google is incompetent at searching in Chinese, this is for another discussion. May be Google's Chinese speakers are incompetent. But the issue is how did Google came to the conclusion that the attack came from mainland China. So for Google, it thought that by complying with Chinese laws and instituted self-censorship is good enough. But now its database was compromised and that is the reason why Google decided to no longer self-censored.

 

[xuxu1457]

What does this has to do with the issue at hand? Google is charging that according to their investigation, the database break-ins had its origins in mainland China. The exploit code is now public for study. If Google is incompetent at searching in Chinese, this is for another discussion. May be Google's Chinese speakers are incompetent. But the issue is how did Google came to the conclusion that the attack came from mainland China. So for Google, it thought that by complying with Chinese laws and instituted self-censorship is good enough. But now its database was compromised and that is the reason why Google decided to no longer self-censored.

that is Google's Chinese speakers find a reasons for the google's failure,he will never said"because of my failure,Google.cn will be down".every big site is attacked by hacker from all over the world at every time,including many many sites in China,Baidu also was hijacked to a Iran site,this isn't a reason.I also use the Google to find info in Einglish,but it should invest more on its Chinese engine to fit the users need

 

[gambit]

that is Google's Chinese speakers find a reasons for the google's failure,he will never said"because of my failure,Google.cn will be down".every big site is attacked by hacker from all over the world at every time,including many many sites in China,Baidu also was hijacked to a Iran site,this isn't a reason.I also use the Google to find info in Einglish,but it should invest more on its Chinese engine to fit the users need

It was the degree of sophistication of the break-in that prompted Google's current response. Do you really think that these people do not believe they will be the target for every hacker and script kiddies out there?

Official Google Blog: A new approach to China

Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.

First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.

Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.

Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.

 

[grey boy 2]

??????????????????CEO??????

Breaking News, sorry for the poor translation
Google restored "Censoring" and Hope to stay in China

?????? 2010-01-18 08:49:23

Google denied the media reports prior to the closure of Google China web site and office news.
Assessment agency in Beijing January 18 / Xinhua China A few days ago out of position to the engine giant Google (Google), this weekend gave some subtle language. Bloomberg on the 16th, said Google has denied media reports the closure of Google China web site and office news. A condition of anonymity, said the same day a spokesman for the Valley, Showgirl, Google in China, an employee still prepare for the future as it now is to continue to work in China. The Google CEO Eric. Schmidt, 15, accepted the U.S. "Newsweek" interview, also said he hoped to reach agreement with the Chinese Government, after consultation, to stay in China.

Wen Wei Po reported that Google has decided to deny the closure of offices in China to clarify since the mid-12 has been attacked by hackers, Google continue to operate business in China, and revealed that he will seek in the next few weeks, with Chinese officials met to discuss the incident. It is learned that, google.cn most of the search filtering software is still functioning. Analysis that has never been a company so openly assumed a posture of confrontation with the Chinese government, Google's move has undermined the prospects for China's development, the company threatening to withdraw from the Chinese market, but also so that advertisers would prefer to give up Google to switch to Baidu, even though Google the final decision to stay may face more stringent regulation.

Referred to as "love China and the Chinese people"

Google CEO Eric. Schmidt, 15, accepted the U.S. "Newsweek" an exclusive interview that the Chinese Government is working with Google to conduct negotiations out of the Chinese market, Google he did not rule out the possibility of staying in China , and highly emotional way that "we love China and the Chinese people."

Turning to Google to make the decision to withdraw the reasons for the Chinese market, he said that compared to many other companies, Google has its differences, the China operations for the Google decision-making is a very complex issue. But he still says the company operating in China is good for everyone - for Google and the Chinese people alike.

Will continue to retain staff in China

When asked why the news out publicly announced and not before, and interested parties to communicate, Schmidt said Google is also now contact the Chinese government, hoping to solve this problem. "But we want transparent, and do not want to confidentiality. So we first announced the news, and now also in discussions with the Chinese Government." He said it is difficult to say the final outcome, because the discussion has just begun.

Schmidt also reiterated in an interview Google Inc. to withdraw the statement earlier in the view, claiming that Google's not just being driven by commercial interests. "This is not a business choice - a choice will certainly be the business continue to participate in the Chinese market ... ... we are trying to seek from a global point of view what is the best (decision)."

Finally, when asked to withdraw the Chinese market after Google other search engine to replace the possibility, Schmidt said: "This is a possible outcome, but perhaps we could and the Chinese government to reach an agreement and continue operating in China . "" To know, we will still be in China to keep our engineers, programmers and other staff. "He said," We love China and the Chinese people. "

Google is now turning out of turmoil and the resumption of Chinese search "filter" function

Since Google (Google) announced plans to withdraw from the Chinese market and the closure of China office, the 5-day period, Google has not taken any substantive action.

 

[chinapakistan]

??????????????????CEO??????

Breaking News, sorry for the poor translation
Google restored "Censoring" and Hope to stay in China

?????? 2010-01-18 08:49:23

Google denied the media reports prior to the closure of Google China web site and office news.
Assessment agency in Beijing January 18 / Xinhua China A few days ago out of position to the engine giant Google (Google), this weekend gave some subtle language. Bloomberg on the 16th, said Google has denied media reports the closure of Google China web site and office news. A condition of anonymity, said the same day a spokesman for the Valley, Showgirl, Google in China, an employee still prepare for the future as it now is to continue to work in China. The Google CEO Eric. Schmidt, 15, accepted the U.S. "Newsweek" interview, also said he hoped to reach agreement with the Chinese Government, after consultation, to stay in China.

Wen Wei Po reported that Google has decided to deny the closure of offices in China to clarify since the mid-12 has been attacked by hackers, Google continue to operate business in China, and revealed that he will seek in the next few weeks, with Chinese officials met to discuss the incident. It is learned that, google.cn most of the search filtering software is still functioning. Analysis that has never been a company so openly assumed a posture of confrontation with the Chinese government, Google's move has undermined the prospects for China's development, the company threatening to withdraw from the Chinese market, but also so that advertisers would prefer to give up Google to switch to Baidu, even though Google the final decision to stay may face more stringent regulation.

Referred to as "love China and the Chinese people"

Google CEO Eric. Schmidt, 15, accepted the U.S. "Newsweek" an exclusive interview that the Chinese Government is working with Google to conduct negotiations out of the Chinese market, Google he did not rule out the possibility of staying in China , and highly emotional way that "we love China and the Chinese people."

Turning to Google to make the decision to withdraw the reasons for the Chinese market, he said that compared to many other companies, Google has its differences, the China operations for the Google decision-making is a very complex issue. But he still says the company operating in China is good for everyone - for Google and the Chinese people alike.

Will continue to retain staff in China

When asked why the news out publicly announced and not before, and interested parties to communicate, Schmidt said Google is also now contact the Chinese government, hoping to solve this problem. "But we want transparent, and do not want to confidentiality. So we first announced the news, and now also in discussions with the Chinese Government." He said it is difficult to say the final outcome, because the discussion has just begun.

Schmidt also reiterated in an interview Google Inc. to withdraw the statement earlier in the view, claiming that Google's not just being driven by commercial interests. "This is not a business choice - a choice will certainly be the business continue to participate in the Chinese market ... ... we are trying to seek from a global point of view what is the best (decision)."

Finally, when asked to withdraw the Chinese market after Google other search engine to replace the possibility, Schmidt said: "This is a possible outcome, but perhaps we could and the Chinese government to reach an agreement and continue operating in China . "" To know, we will still be in China to keep our engineers, programmers and other staff. "He said," We love China and the Chinese people. "

Google is now turning out of turmoil and the resumption of Chinese search "filter" function

Since Google (Google) announced plans to withdraw from the Chinese market and the closure of China office, the 5-day period, Google has not taken any substantive action.

I have copied this artical and paste it into "china defense" sector.

 

[xuxu1457]

It was the degree of sophistication of the break-in that prompted Google's current response. Do you really think that these people do not believe they will be the target for every hacker and script kiddies out there?

Official Google Blog: A new approach to China

“Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis”
and this is a world wild problem about hacker's attacking,We even don't believe that Iran's hacker attacked Baidu,they have no reason to attack,but the main lead of Baidu was hijacked to a Iran's site,and a statement made by Iran Network Army,but who know this is did by Iran or only cast the blame on other people.

 

[Roby]

What a hypocrite, why don't you re-post what you just said in countless other sub-forums. Ask yourself why USA was brought up in a topic regarding Pakistan, why China was brought up when someone bad mouthed India, and so on and so forth.

what BS. Show me what I said in "countless other sub forums if you can..
Other wise stop trolling and derailing the thread

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

Yahoo!'s 'reckless' stance over Google angers Chinese partner

Yahoo! has come under fire from its Chinese partner for 'reckless' support of Google's decision to consider leaving the country over cyber-attacks.

Published: 7:06AM GMT 18 Jan 2010

"Alibaba Group has communicated to Yahoo! that Yahoo!’s statement that it is ‘aligned’ with the position Google took last week was reckless, given the lack of facts in evidence,” Alibaba Group, a Chinese Internet company which is 40pc owned by Yahoo!, told Bloomberg. “Alibaba doesn’t share this view.”

Yahoo! declined to comment beyond its earlier statement that it condemns “cyber-attacks regardless of origin or purpose,” and is committed to protecting users

It said last week that it was “aligned” with Google in opposing “attempts to infiltrate company networks to obtain user information”.

The Alibaba founder, Jack Ma, and Yahoo! have clashed it the past. Yahoo! is reportedly upset that Alibaba has moved its online classified business from Yahoo! Chinan to Taobao, a rival in the Chinese internet market.

Google announced last week, after an attack on its computer system, that it would no longer censor search results on Google.cn and was considering closing down the Chinese website

Source : Yahoo!'s 'reckless' stance over Google angers Chinese partner - Telegraph

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

If Google don't want to play, please withdraw from China!

 

[gambit]

“Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis”
and this is a world wild problem about hacker's attacking,We even don't believe that Iran's hacker attacked Baidu,they have no reason to attack,but the main lead of Baidu was hijacked to a Iran's site,and a statement made by Iran Network Army,but who know this is did by Iran or only cast the blame on other people.

Just because you, the victim, are unable to discern the reason for the attack, even though you are confident of the source of the attack, as reasonably certain as forensic techniques will reveal, it does not mean there are no reasons. I do not know if you have any study of criminology, but those who will commit crimes are not under any moral obligations to announce their intentions, let alone their logic and justifications for the crimes.

Gmail of Foreign Journalists in China Hijacked - PC World Business Center

By Owen Fletcher, IDG News Service

The Gmail accounts of foreign reporters in at least two news bureaus in Beijing have been hijacked, a journalists' group in China said Monday.

The news comes just one week after Google said it had been targeted by recent cyberattacks aimed at accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. The U.S. search giant cited the attacks as one reason it has decided to stop censoring its Chinese search engine and may ultimately close its China offices.

The hijacked Gmail accounts used by the journalists in Beijing had been set to forward all e-mails to a stranger's address, the Foreign Correspondents' Club of China said in an e-mail to members. The group did not name the news organizations hit by the attack or say when the hijacking occurred.

"We remind all members that journalists in China have been particular targets of hacker attacks in the last 2 years," the group's e-mail said.

Last year the group said it had received reports that the news assistants of foreign reporters in China were being targeted by e-mailed viruses.

Well-known Chinese human rights lawyer Teng Biao last week said in a blog post that his Gmail account had recently been hacked. Other Chinese dissidents including artist Ai Weiwei have reportedly made similar statements in recent days.

Google said the Gmail compromises were unrelated to the larger cyberattacks it has suffered. While two Gmail accounts appeared to have been accessed, the contents of e-mail documents were not, Google said.

Whether Google decide to continue to do business in China, or not, is a corporate decision, not a criminal one. If Google decide to remain in China out of corporate greed, it will have to comply with the PRC's censorship laws, which everyone knows it has nothing to do with pornography. The pornography reason is so thin that those in the human rights business chuckled and say the PRC government might as well admit that it does not want anyone to return to its citizens any bad PR on itself.

The absurdity is even more obvious when the argument is presented that Chinese citizens are free to know about what is going on with other countries. Big deal. It is good that Chinese citizens are delighted about a Watergate-type scandal in the US so that they are distracted from the corruptions in their own government. That is how dictatorships works and compliant media, be it print or electronics, help the government in not only the control mechanisms but also the direction of the access.

 

[gpit]

Yahoo criticised by Alibaba for 'reckless' China stance

Yahoo's partner in China has called the US internet giant "reckless" for supporting Google in its stand-off with Beijing over alleged cyber-attacks.

Yahoo said it was "aligned" with Google's position that the violation of internet privacy was deeply disturbing and something that had to be opposed.

But an Alibaba Group spokesman said on Saturday it did not "share this view".

Beijing has tried to play down Google's threat to pull out of China because of attacks by hackers and censorship.

In what correspondents say is an unusual move, the US state department said on Friday that it was to make a formal protest about the incident to China's government and demand an explanation.

'Business as usual'

Yahoo closed its offices in China several years ago when it sold much of its business there to the Alibaba Group, in which it has a 39% stake. It runs Taobao, China's largest online retailer, as well as the country's largest e-commerce site, Alibaba.com.


On Wednesday, a Yahoo spokeswoman said it condemned "any attempts to infiltrate company networks to obtain user information". Yahoo is also reported to have been targeted by hackers in China but remained silent on the issue.

"We stand aligned that these kinds of attacks are deeply disturbing and strongly believe that the violation of user privacy is something that we as Internet pioneers must all oppose," she told the Wall Street Journal.

But on Saturday, Alibaba Group spokesman John Spelich said it had "communicated to Yahoo that Yahoo's statement that it is 'aligned' with the position Google took last week was reckless given the lack of facts in evidence".

"Alibaba doesn't share this view," he added.

A Yahoo spokeswoman later declined to say whether the company would consider selling its holdings.

Meanwhile, a Google spokeswoman denied Chinese reports that the company had already decided to shut down its google.cn site.

"It's business as usual," Jessica Powell added.

Google said on Tuesday that cyber-attacks originating in China aimed at rights activists, and increased web censorship, might force it to end its China operations.

...(more)

BBC News - Yahoo criticised by Alibaba for 'reckless' China stance

----------------

A Yahoo spokeswoman later declined to say whether the company would consider selling its holdings.

LOL! It reminds me a murder case in perhaps Homedale, NJ, around maybe 2001-2 where three investors decided to pump up a small stock by simultaneously putting money on it, and then simultaneously selling it once it was high. The hearsay goes that one of them sold his stock before the other two, and causing the latter huge loss. And eventually the losers had to finish the winner in an American way: by shooting him at the head numerous shots.

If Yahoo sells the stock but Google doesn’t quit, Google will be the winner, and Yahoo will be the loser.

Face it! China’s 350 million internet users are a huge peace of cake. Only a corporate fool will deny a share!

 

[gambit]

China News: Baidu’s Internal Monitoring and Censorship Document Leaked (2) | China Digital Times (CDT)

Baidu, China’s leading search engine company, has a long history of being the most proactive and restrictive online censor in the search arena. These newly available materials reveal and confirm how censors at the search engines distort and manipulate the search experiences of Chinese netizens. These complete documents are being rapidly spread, and quickly deleted, in Chinese cyberspace.

Interview: Robin Li, founder of Baidu.com | Technology | The Guardian

Asked to illustrate the differences, Li says his firm's search engine can distinguish between two-character and three-character Chinese names so that its results are more relevant than those of its rivals. It has also created chatrooms related to the most common inquiries so that everyone who looks for the name of a pop star gets the chance to share opinions as well as find related sites.

That is very commendable. Baidu does the Chinese people a better service than its rivals in the gossip dept.

However, it appears to be easier for Baidu, as well as its rivals Google and Yahoo!, to block references to sensitive political information. "As a locally operated company we need to obey the Chinese law. If the law determines that certain information is illegal, we need to remove it from our index," Li says.

It is funny and telling that whenever there is even an imaginary hint of collusion between the US government and a member of the US media, such collusion receive no moral support from the Chinese members of this forum when they see no problems at all when such alliances are openly celebrated in China.

 

[Developereo]

Question is, will drama queen google stay in China once it's publicity stunt temper tantrum is over?

I agree with some analysts that google was trying to find a face saving way to exit a hopeless business battle against Chinese giant baidu.

The issue of censorship is a red herring; google routinely censors results deemed offensive to Zionist agenda. Anti-semitic pages are censored out, but the most rabidly anti-Muslim pages are presented.

 

[gambit]

Question is, will drama queen google stay in China once it's publicity stunt temper tantrum is over?

I agree with some analysts that google was trying to find a face saving way to exit a hopeless business battle against Chinese giant baidu.

Google does not need China as much as Baidu does. If anything, Baidu cannot leave China so if Robin Li want to remain a wealthy man, he will have to remain bent over for the PRC government. The lube is cash.

The issue of censorship is a red herring;...

The issue is a break-in that according to Google's investigation has origins in mainland China. Many other major news and merchants have their own forensic investigations and came to the same conclusion. They could be wrong, of course.

...google routinely censors results deemed offensive to Zionist agenda. Anti-semitic pages are censored out, but the most rabidly anti-Muslim pages are presented.

Who is the 'drama queen' now? Best thing for the muslims to do is to support China by learning Chinese and use Baidu. Of course, since Baidu will comply with the PRC's request to filter out any information regarding China's treatment of Chinese muslims under its rule...errr...hmmm...kinda awkward...

 

[gambit]

If Google don't want to play, please withdraw from China!

China does not control access to the Internet. Care to guess who does?