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Germany suspends arms sales to Turkey

Huh ......but they let in over 1million mostly Muslim refugees in their country without any checks per se , something even other European countries were against(especially such a high number without checks).
So I'm confused now, seems Merkel's Germany is more anti-Islam than I thought then. :undecided:

They were surprised it was not voluntary.
 
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Huh ......but they let in over 1million mostly Muslim refugees in their country without any checks per se , something even other European countries were against(especially such a high number without checks).
So I'm confused now, seems Merkel's Germany is more anti-Islam than I thought then. :undecided:

I think the "refugees" are easier to assimilate into german society, Germany needs the population to become a super power.

Because it's many different countries, there are many turkish people in Germany and having Turkey join the EU will mean more Turks in Germany. Which will result in Turks in Germany having more voting rights and slowly starting to take charge of German politics and power as they make more babies than the average german.
 
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I think the "refugees" are easier to assimilate into german society, Germany needs the population to become a super power.
Well, I think if they really needed just the population, there are dozens of countries around the world(basically every single developing country) who will happily migrate to Germany for a better life from south America to Sub Saharan Africa to South Asia to SEA even some countries in East Asia. It didn't have to be just middle Eastern/North Africa/Muslim countries in the region. So I don't think it was much about increasing the population as you said. They can do it anytime if they really wanted (and in a far more better ,legal and orderly manner if they really needed it).
 
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So Germans got a million of refugees in their country, huh? I am all for doubling that amount as a present for Mutti Angela from Turkey.

Come one, Erdo... flood the EU with more refugees. If you do I will never criticize you again. :yahoo:
 
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Huh ......but they freely let in over 1million mostly Muslim refugees(with social benefits paid for by the tax payer) in their country without any checks per se , something even other European countries were against(especially such a high number without checks) and they have been forcing other European countries to take in more Muslim refugees as well.
So I'm confused now, seems Merkel's Germany is more anti-Islam than I thought then?. :undecided:


the ones in my neighborhood and many of them I saw where educated ones..

in the local hospital its full of such doctors..

merkels party was always conservative "christian" they used antimuslimism (yeah I created it) for elections and for their hardcore christian voters.. but they let the right wing parties like AFD go crazy and did not do anything .. they (some of CDU) just jumped on the anti foreigner trip and spit oil in the fire..

but no one in germany can understand why they help the syrian refugees so much.. they get more than they should get for excample money, education and so on.. maybe this time germany tries to assimilate them and make them german friendly.. or it is related to the educated ones..

I really was surprized when I heared that in the neighborhood one family is a doctor, one english teacher, someone who studied some engineerer stuff and so on..

and the place I live there are not only higher educated ppl.. you find anything you can imagine

Germans are also legitimately furious that THY is putting their airlines out of business and the 3rd Istanbul airport (e.g. the new trans-global aviation hub) will hurt them even more.

Well, sorry Deiter, but that's simple globalization and the free market economic model at work. Germany can't always win at everything. Please move on!

Air Berlin cancels more flights after pilots call in sick



https://www.dailysabah.com/business...scraps-more-flights-after-pilots-call-in-sick

the pilots just said they are ill..

they want more money thats the problem nothing to do with turkish airliners except that they (air berlin) are already suffering and having money problems..
 
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And they're having money problems at least partially because THY keeps on getting bigger and bigger slices from the European/Worldwide passengers' cake.

Afaik Qatar refused to further invest in AirBerlin. Germans will drive against the wall or severe clashes will happen in future cause the people get poorer and poorer. I have engineer friends who travelled 3 times to vacancies per year. Now they can only travel one time. 250 gramm butter price is at least 1.50 Euro. Before Euro it was 75 Pfennig. Man's haircut with wash 25 Euro. Before in German Mark it was 17-25 . Euro was a covered expropriation. Some others countries supported people with a minimum income 1000 Euros. E.G. Dutch.
 
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Euro (and "the EU" as an economic institution) was a German scam played on the smaller European nations (who Germany only considered to be customers and/or cheaper labor) and it's all slowly coming to an end as more and more peoples realize the widening income distribution gap between themselves and the Germans. Kudos to the Germans for pulling it off especially given the history and aftermath of the WW2 but no crime can go on forever.
 
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Euro (and "the EU" as an economic institution) was a German scam played on the smaller European nations (who Germany only considered to be customers and/or cheaper labor) and it's all slowly coming to an end as more and more peoples realize the widening income distribution gap between themselves and the Germans. Kudos to the Germans for pulling it off especially given the history and aftermath of the WW2 but no crime can go on forever.

What now ?

He SCHULZ says : " I won't fall on my knees in front of ERDOGAN "! He accepted already his failure

http://www.dw.com/de/martin-schulz-ich-bin-nicht-bereit-vor-erdogan-in-die-knie-zu-gehen/a-40539414
 
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German decision to freeze arms exports to yield no impact on Turkish defense industry

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The rise of anti-Turkey rhetoric in German politics has revved up German politicians prior to the upcoming federal elections on Sept. 24, amid aims to win potential votes. However, the freezing of German arms exports to NATO-ally Turkey sparked a new debate, as the German government uses the suspension of arms exports to Turkey as a new political tool for increasing Berlin's pressure on Ankara, as experts indicate that Germany's decision will have no impact on the Turkish defense industry.

According to data obtained from the Turkish Statistical Institute (TurkStat), Turkey's imports of German firearms and ammunition in 2016 reached around $2.4 million. Data also revealed that the exports of Turkish non-military weapons to Germany, such as rifles, shotguns, carbines and muzzleloaders, increased up to $6 million in 2016. As foreign trade figures indicate that arms trade between the two countries has no significance, Turkey's cooperation between Germany in the defense industry is not limited to export and import figures.

Defense industry researcher Turan Oğuz emphasized that Germany is Turkey's second partner after the U.S in importing critical vessels such as submarines, frigates, assault boats and tanks. "However, we have learned from experience that we cannot trust Germany as it attached restriction on the use of German weapons in southeastern Anatolia in 1992," Oğuz said. "Despite the fact that Germany removed the restriction in 2009, Turkey has reduced its purchases from Germany with this understanding, he added. The defense industry expert also reiterated that due to previous, bitter experiences, there is a motto in the Turkish defense industry that has been used for decades and says, "Do not purchase from Germany if it is not an obligation." This motto is still valid in Turkey, he added.

Despite this motto, the ongoing projects with German arms makers reveals that there is wide-ranged cooperation between the two countries. Turkey and Germany have been working jointly in manufacturing within the Airbus A400M consortium and Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), where Type 214 submarines are manufactured. In addition, the German Rhein Metal Company established a joint venture with the BMC Company which aims to establish joint production of armored vehicles, particularly the Altay tank. However, defense industry expert Oğuz believes that none of these projects will be affected by the possible decision to freeze exports of German arms. "The A400M and submarine projects were launched under strict stipulations. Therefore, these projects will not be affected in the future so as to avoid paying large compensations. Still, Turkish STM and German TSKM gave an offer along with an Indonesian company for the joint production of Type 214 submarines, and those firms are still engaged in cooperation. As for the Rheinmetall Company, there has been no problem so far," he said. "However, we do have alternative suppliers. Turkey ensured its alternatives from the west and east to procure materials for ships, submarines, the Altay tank and Fırtına 2 KMO. In the event that there is a breakdown in relations with Germany, the procurement might slow down for one-to-two years. However, these types of radical changes can be observed in times of war or under the U.N. resolutions. Therefore, I do not think that this issue will affect us," he added.

Hüseyin Kocabıyık, a member of the National Defense Commission of Turkish Parliament, looks at Turkish-German tensions from an entirely different angle. "As a member of the Parliament Defense Commission, I can understand Germany's attitude which is not in line with amicable relations of the NATO alliance. Germany seems bored as an industry and trade state under the wings of the U.S. It seeks interest fields in the Middle East and other regions for itself. At this point, it considers Turkey as a specific hurdle in the Middle East region."

Kocabıyık stated that Turkey has been blocking the interests of Germany due to three reasons, one of which is that Turkey will become an energy hub for Europe with TurkStream and Trans Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline (TANAP) projects. Another reason is that Istanbul could potentially take Frankfurt's place as a European air hub when the Istanbul Third Airport is finalized. According to Kocabıyık, the final reason is that Turkey opposes Germany's plans to use it as a tool in the Middle East. Kocabıyık considers the underlying reason for Germany's support of terrorist groups like the PKK and its Syrian offshoot the Democratic Union Party (PYD) and FETÖ as aims of weakening Turkey. "This neurotic attitude of Germany will not lead it anywhere. The latest developments show that [Germany] stands alone in Europe in its enmity toward Turkey. I hope German politicians will avoid these mistakes after the elections," he concluded.

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...o-yield-no-impact-on-turkish-defense-industry
 
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Defense industry researcher Turan Oğuz

So, Daily Sabah is quoting an anonymous, self-proclaimed, twitter defense industry expert....I wonder if they are going to start quoting us too in the future. :-)
 
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Great news. President Trump should follow suit and ban US military sales to Turkey.

He actually kinda did. Erdogan wanted to buy firearms for his bodyguards from a US firm but the US blocked it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...ixes-proposal-let-Turkey-guards-buy-guns.html

I don't understand why Erdogan didn't buy Turkish made firearms, Canik have some really good, high quality pistols.

German decision to freeze arms exports to yield no impact on Turkish defense industry

534


The rise of anti-Turkey rhetoric in German politics has revved up German politicians prior to the upcoming federal elections on Sept. 24, amid aims to win potential votes. However, the freezing of German arms exports to NATO-ally Turkey sparked a new debate, as the German government uses the suspension of arms exports to Turkey as a new political tool for increasing Berlin's pressure on Ankara, as experts indicate that Germany's decision will have no impact on the Turkish defense industry.

According to data obtained from the Turkish Statistical Institute (TurkStat), Turkey's imports of German firearms and ammunition in 2016 reached around $2.4 million. Data also revealed that the exports of Turkish non-military weapons to Germany, such as rifles, shotguns, carbines and muzzleloaders, increased up to $6 million in 2016. As foreign trade figures indicate that arms trade between the two countries has no significance, Turkey's cooperation between Germany in the defense industry is not limited to export and import figures.

Defense industry researcher Turan Oğuz emphasized that Germany is Turkey's second partner after the U.S in importing critical vessels such as submarines, frigates, assault boats and tanks. "However, we have learned from experience that we cannot trust Germany as it attached restriction on the use of German weapons in southeastern Anatolia in 1992," Oğuz said. "Despite the fact that Germany removed the restriction in 2009, Turkey has reduced its purchases from Germany with this understanding, he added. The defense industry expert also reiterated that due to previous, bitter experiences, there is a motto in the Turkish defense industry that has been used for decades and says, "Do not purchase from Germany if it is not an obligation." This motto is still valid in Turkey, he added.

Despite this motto, the ongoing projects with German arms makers reveals that there is wide-ranged cooperation between the two countries. Turkey and Germany have been working jointly in manufacturing within the Airbus A400M consortium and Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), where Type 214 submarines are manufactured. In addition, the German Rhein Metal Company established a joint venture with the BMC Company which aims to establish joint production of armored vehicles, particularly the Altay tank. However, defense industry expert Oğuz believes that none of these projects will be affected by the possible decision to freeze exports of German arms. "The A400M and submarine projects were launched under strict stipulations. Therefore, these projects will not be affected in the future so as to avoid paying large compensations. Still, Turkish STM and German TSKM gave an offer along with an Indonesian company for the joint production of Type 214 submarines, and those firms are still engaged in cooperation. As for the Rheinmetall Company, there has been no problem so far," he said. "However, we do have alternative suppliers. Turkey ensured its alternatives from the west and east to procure materials for ships, submarines, the Altay tank and Fırtına 2 KMO. In the event that there is a breakdown in relations with Germany, the procurement might slow down for one-to-two years. However, these types of radical changes can be observed in times of war or under the U.N. resolutions. Therefore, I do not think that this issue will affect us," he added.

Hüseyin Kocabıyık, a member of the National Defense Commission of Turkish Parliament, looks at Turkish-German tensions from an entirely different angle. "As a member of the Parliament Defense Commission, I can understand Germany's attitude which is not in line with amicable relations of the NATO alliance. Germany seems bored as an industry and trade state under the wings of the U.S. It seeks interest fields in the Middle East and other regions for itself. At this point, it considers Turkey as a specific hurdle in the Middle East region."

Kocabıyık stated that Turkey has been blocking the interests of Germany due to three reasons, one of which is that Turkey will become an energy hub for Europe with TurkStream and Trans Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline (TANAP) projects. Another reason is that Istanbul could potentially take Frankfurt's place as a European air hub when the Istanbul Third Airport is finalized. According to Kocabıyık, the final reason is that Turkey opposes Germany's plans to use it as a tool in the Middle East. Kocabıyık considers the underlying reason for Germany's support of terrorist groups like the PKK and its Syrian offshoot the Democratic Union Party (PYD) and FETÖ as aims of weakening Turkey. "This neurotic attitude of Germany will not lead it anywhere. The latest developments show that [Germany] stands alone in Europe in its enmity toward Turkey. I hope German politicians will avoid these mistakes after the elections," he concluded.

https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...o-yield-no-impact-on-turkish-defense-industry

Didn't they say the same thing about the tümosan-austrian engine as well? They said that even if Austria puts sanctions on weapon sales to Turkey Tümosan would still be able to design, develop and build the altay tank engine themselves. It didn't work.
 
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