Germany asks U.S. for classified briefing on Lockheed's F-35 fighter

[dammer]

Maybe the Russians want to take a closer look.

maybe

 

[Louiq XIV]

Though, some critics argue that Germany should develop its own stealth fighter together with France instead of buying American jets off the shelf.

The most probably case would be a joint development with France.

Nope that's not going to happen. France has already made clear that the plan is FCAS & Rafale no new fighter development needed for us.

Rafale has already anything required to be on par with US 5th gen fighters apart from passive stealth when loaded.

Solution could have been to modify the Rafale (MLU modification) to add a bay for a small load configuration keeping the small RCS the Rafale already has when flying clean for the kind of missions that could require that.

But that's not the way that the DGA and the AdA seem to have chosen but rather a mix of Rafale & stealth drones.

The work on stealth drones is an ongoing work with the FCAS program with the UK following the nEUROn program
and Germany isn't involved on this program. Personally I don't see what Germany has to put on the table that could justify to accept her into the FCAS program.

So my bet is Germany will either buy F-35 or spend more money on the Eurofighter to develop its AG capabilities.

Being more interested by industrial aspects, money and jobs than anything else I'll bet that more "made in Germany" upgraded Eurofighter will come.

My 2 cents

 

[Penguin]

Sure, I didn't deny this or?
I have only said it would not be stealth and if it would stealth only unmanned.

And you base these two statements on what authoritative source(s)?

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

And you base these two statements on what authoritative source(s)?

Common sense and logical thinking after the results of the last projects. We have downgrade every major project, either in quantity or in quality or even in both in the last 20 years. And i don't see any changing in the politcial landscape under the current threat potential...it's question of cost, you know?
Therefore it's my personal opinion, if we get FCAS in development it would be only unmanned especially if it should be stealth.
Unmanned means cheap, manned means expensive ans both systems in one...means really expensive.
Again i don't deny that all is open, but and the end of the day it's a question of money...in Germany.
Right now you have only a study not even a project in development. As soon FCAS got though the parliament, with the goal to build a manned or unmanned/manned System strike system, maybe even stealth, come back and i will excuse me myself in all form to you until then...i stood to my answer.

The work on stealth drones is an ongoing work with the FCAS program with the UK following the nEUROn program
and Germany isn't involved on this program. Personally I don't see what Germany has to put on the table that could justify to accept her into the FCAS program.

So my bet is Germany will either buy F-35 or spend more money on the Eurofighter to develop its AG capabilities.

Being more interested by industrial aspects, money and jobs than anything else I'll bet that more "made in Germany" upgraded Eurofighter will come.

My 2 cents

Cooperation projects are always politically motivated...therefore say never no.
But yes, we are too late, like the the f-35 we would not participate in the development and could only buy the finished product.

Actually maybe not the worst result. With the F-35 we would at least get an almost finished 5gen jet.
But i fear, because I don't think any German politician would touch the F-35 because the price tag we only would build some eurofighters more...

 

[Penguin]

Common sense and logical thinking after the results of the last projects. We have downgrade every major project, either in quantity or in quality or even in both in the last 20 years. And i don't see any changing in the politcial landscape under the current threat potential...it's question of cost, you know?
Therefore it's my personal opinion, if we get FCAS in development it would be only unmanned especially if it should be stealth.
Unmanned means cheap, manned means expensive ans both systems in one...means really expensive.
Again i don't deny that all is open, but and the end of the day it's a question of money...in Germany.
Right now you have only a study not even a project in development. As soon FCAS got though the parliament, with the goal to build a manned or unmanned/manned System strike system, maybe even stealth, come back and i will excuse me myself in all form to you until then...i stood to my answer.

It is not a matter of who is right here, I just want to see what standpoints are based on. Hence, correctly, you identify your personal opinion as such.

I'm not so sure that unmanned automatically means cheap. As we get more demanding on systems, they tend to get more expensive.

MQ-1 Predator A (1995 present: 360 units)
Program cost US$2.38 billion (2011)
Unit cost US$4.03 million (2010)

MQ-1C Gray Eagle (2004-present: up to 150 units)
Program cost US$4,745.3 million (as of FY2013)
Unit cost

• US$21.5M (FY2013)
• US$31.2M (inc. R&D)

MQ-9 Reaper / Predator B (2007-present: at least 163 units)
Program cost US$11.8 billion
Unit cost US$16.9 million (flyaway cost, 2013)