Geopolitics of GCC+ region

[King Solomon]

Yes but we are having regularly having demonstrations in Bahrain. So to clarify not just for outsiders but to those demonstrators that the will of the majority is being followed elections are the logical answer. Also people have been killed in some of these. If elections save 1 life they must be held

How do we know those protesters represent the majority of Bahrain people who enjoys a very good standard of living and are well provided for?

Bahrain protests were far less violent compared to Syria as per statistics.

 

[lem34]

How do we know those protesters represent the majority of Bahrain people who enjoys a very good standard of living and are well provided for?

Bahrain protests were far less violent compared to Syria as per statistics.

You claim to be having a logical conversation with me but you ask the very question that an election would answer. Why would the people in power be so scared of.

My position is consistent in Syria and Bahrain. Anywhere where there are people demonstrating and being killed whether that is 10 or 20 people. Allow an election whoever is elected should be recognized as the legitimate rep of that country.

 

[King Solomon]

You claim to be having a logical conversation with me but you ask the very question that an election would answer. Why would the people in power be so scared of.

My position is consistent in Syria and Bahrain. Anywhere where there are people demonstrating and being killed whether that is 10 or 20 people. Allow an election whoever is elected should be recognized as the legitimate rep of that country.

The point I was trying to emphasize is the economic condition of Bahrain compared to, say, Syria. Everything is possible but we must lean on the side with the greatest conclusive evidence.

Bahrain is not an absolute dictatorship. There is a parliament and a legislative process. Legislations cannot be enacted without the approval of parliament whose members are elected by the general public.

 

[lem34]

The point I was trying to emphasize is the economic condition of Bahrain compared to, say, Syria. Everything is possible but we must lean on the side with the greatest conclusive evidence.

I know exactly what you were trying to suggest. That does not obviate the need for elections when people are demonstrating the way they are.

As far as evidence goes those in power could prove by holding an election that the majority of people back them. (51% would be fine) The only inference that can be drawn by their reluctance to prove something they could do easily is that they do not represent the majority and have something to hide

 

[King Solomon]

I know exactly what you were trying to suggest. That does not obviate the need for elections when people are demonstrating the way they are.

As far as evidence goes those in power could prove by holding an election that the majority of people back them. (51% would be fine) The only inference that can be drawn by their reluctance to prove something they could do easily is that they do not represent the majority and have something to hide

The system in Bahrain can be compared to the parliamentary monarchy system in the UK (it is only projected differently by the media, but in essence, they are almost the same)... Do you hold the same view about the UK monarchy after the london protests/riots? Remember, GDP/capita of Bahrain is about the same as UK.

 

[lem34]

The system in Bahrain can be compared to the parliamentary monarchy system in the UK (it is only projected differently by the media, but in essence, they are almost the same)... Do you hold the same view about the UK monarchy after the london protests/riots? Remember, GDP/capita of Bahrain is about the same as UK.

I do not favour the UK system either. But I must say your analogy is not correct because one is a constitutional monarchy the other simply not

I also note you ignore the substantive in my last post and wish to choose to go off at a tangent. I suggest that you focus on what I stated

 

[King Solomon]

As far as evidence goes those in power could prove by holding an election that the majority of people back them. (51% would be fine) The only inference that can be drawn by their reluctance to prove something they could do easily is that they do not represent the majority and have something to hide

Are you aware that this is not the first time protests in Bahrain happened? Same thing happened in 1990. As a result, a referendum was held and the parliament was reinstated in Bahrain with democratic reforms. Till now the parliament is in effect, whose members are elected by the people and which is a foundational component of the legislative process of Bahrain.

 

[lem34]

Are you aware that this is not the first time protests in Bahrain happened? Same thing happened in 1990. As a result, a referendum was held and the parliament was reinstated in Bahrain with democratic reforms. Till now the parliament is in effect, whose members are elected by the people and which is a foundational component of the legislative process of Bahrain.

whilst one family is able to dictate unity without recourse to the people of the country with another country that can not imo be regarded as a representative form of governance with legitimacy

 

[King Solomon]

whilst one family is able to dictate unity without recourse to the people of the country with another country that can not imo be regarded as a representative form of governance with legitimacy

...........I do not favour the UK system either. But I must say your analogy is not correct because one is a constitutional monarchy the other simply not.............

Bahrain is a constitutional monarchy after the reforms introduced a decade or so ago.

Bahrain - Constitutional Monarchy - Worldpress.org

 

[lem34]

Bahrain is a constitutional monarchy after the reforms introduced a decade or so ago.

Bahrain - Constitutional Monarchy - Worldpress.org

So what?? I stated to you that I do not agree with Constitutional monarchies. Why should one person be born the subject of another just by accident of birth I have said to you they claim they speak for the majority. If that were true they would hold elections. If they do not in the long term imo they sow the seeds of their own destruction.

 

[King Solomon]

So what?? I stated to you that I do not agree with Constitutional monarchies. Why should one person be born the subject of another just by accident of birth I have said to you they claim they speak for the majority. If that were true they would hold elections. If they do not in the long term imo they sow the seeds of their own destruction.

The model you are speaking of is closest to the US democratic model which I do agree with. Theoretically that may have some ground. But is it suited to ALL traditions, culture and races? I demonstrated the practicality according to various regions, traditions and culture of the US democratic model here:

The question should be, is election the answer?

Let us compare with other Muslim countries. Take for example pakistan. Now, it is quite documented that south asian nations have poverty levels where 30-40% population lives below $1.25/day. Didn't Pakistan and India hold hundreds of elections in central and divisional level since its inception? Was the result satisfactory till now? South Asia is still plagued by poverty.

Now compare it with GCC nations (including bahrain). In 1970, Saudi's GDP was only $7 billion - Same as Pakistan. Now Saudi has a GDP/capita of $20000+ with $400 billion GDP.

Both Saudi and Pakistan has had pro-US leaders. Both of them had "puppets" (in conventional terminology). Who benefited?

Whereas Saudi's GDP, standard of living and wealth multiplied by a hundred times in this 40 years, Pakistan still remains a low-income nation DESPITE holding elections and the "democracy". Both started from the SAME position in 1970.

Election, democracy, dictatorship etc. requires a suitable mentality of the nation in question. Western mentality is suited to it. This does not mean that GCC mentality would also be suited to democracy. When Prophet Mohammed started preaching his religion, according to some historians, if it were other races people would start questioning philosophical aspects of the religion. But this did not happen in this case because Arabs are traditionally faithful to their leaders. Maybe GCC is more suited to kingdom than democracy? Evidence and past record suggests this to be the case!

Edit: It turns out Pakistan had double the GDP of Saudi in 1970 ($10 billion) compared to Saudi's $5 billion......

 

[lem34]

The model you are speaking of is closest to the US democratic model which I do agree with. Theoretically that may have some ground. But is it suited to ALL traditions, culture and races? I demonstrated the practicality according to various regions, traditions and culture of the US democratic model here:

I am my friend a simple person. I belive that the leadership of a people should be able to claim that the majority of their people are supportive of their actions. To me that applies to Syria, Libya Pakistan Bahrain and anywhere else in the world

 

[King Solomon]

I am my friend a simple person. I belive that the leadership of a people should be able to claim that the majority of their people are supportive of their actions. To me that applies to Syria, Libya Pakistan Bahrain and anywhere else in the world

Can Zardari govt. of pakistan claim that majority is represented by him? Remember, he is an elected president.

By that logic, Zardari govt. of pakistan has a more legitimate reason to claim they are true representatives of pakistan people compared to Hamad of Bahrain... Do you agree with that considering the fact that Bahrain's standard of living and GDP/capita is more than 20 times that of pakistan?

 

[lem34]

Can Zardari govt. of pakistan claim that majority is represented by him? Remember, he is an elected president.

By that logic, Zardari govt. of pakistan has a more legitimate reason to claim they are true representatives of pakistan people compared to Hamad of Bahrain... Do you agree with that considering the fact that Bahrain's standard of living and GDP/capita is more than 20 times that of pakistan?

Mate imo you are going off topic. Your living standard mantra is simply that a mantra. by accident they are an oil rich nation. You can not use that logic to justify their rule. Maybe they would be richer if they didnt have one family stealing their resources of the nation and doing America/Israel's bidding

 

[Mosamania]

Mate imo you are going off topic. Your living standard mantra is simply that a mantra. by accident they are an oil rich nation. You can not use that logic to justify their rule. Maybe they would be richer if they didnt have one family stealing their resources of the nation and doing America/Israel's bidding

But it is not an accident the wealth is distributed wisely. The average Bahraini drives BMWs and Mercedes Benz. The average Saudi can not afford a place to live. Just a comparison between the two based on observation. Yet we Saudis now believe that no one is stealing our Oil money anymore. Our oil money is being put into huge mega projects and social welfare the way it is supposed to be put in.