Genes link Australia with India: Indians broke Australian isolation, study

[SwatCat]

You guys are all wrong, I don't feel like giving a history lesson in early Human migration. However, FaujHistorian's account is the most accurate. Though it is incorrect of him to call the early Human groups from Africa as "Aboriginese". Also FaujHistorian you forgot to mention the groups out of Africa first traveled to modern day Arabian peninsula. There were not one African group but more likely several.






Just be quiet okay, you have no idea what you're talking about. I am studied in Biology and specialize in Cell Biology and Genetics and can tell you, you have no idea what "genetics", "genetic difference", or "genetic variance" means or looks like judging by the ignorant statements you have made.

They travelled to Arabian peninsula but left it when they found it inhabitable and came to India since lot of rivers and vegitation, so more population in India.

@FaujHistorian is talking about culture migration not Human migration.

Before the changing to Aryan Languages the people of North also spoke Dravidian Languages. If Pakistanis speak Arabic and in future like some thousands of years ago if people dig and find Arabic scripts doesnot mean Pakistanis are Arabs.

Major migrations happened some 60000 years and 40000 years ago, although some small groups may have migrated until recent times.

Recent studies show the genes throughout India have some commonalities because of mixing of both ASI and ANI. Irrespective of caste and religion.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....However, FaujHistorian's account is the most accurate. Though it is incorrect of him to call the early Human groups from Africa as "Aboriginese". Also FaujHistorian you forgot to mention the groups out of Africa first traveled to modern day Arabian peninsula. There were not one African group but more likely several.


.

Good points A1K. good points.

My study however shows that Africa-India-Australia (AIA) migration for sure predates the one from Africa-Middle East-Europe (AME) migration, and even perhaps Africa-Middle East-Central Asia (AMC). that means other migrations like AMC-China, and AMC-India happened later (if not much later) than AIA.

Calling AIA migrants as aborigines may be slightly inaccurate, but I used this term a bit liberally as they were a singular group, perhaps a very large tribe, who left their traces along the AIA route, but majority of them ended up in Australia.

Aborigine migration is also associated with disappearance of 100+ pound (45+ Kg) wild animals and birds along the AIA route in general and Australia in particular. All these fossil records show unique markers both archeological and genetic that are distinctly aborigines and hence my slightly liberal use of that term.

Hope you understand that I am not starting a counter argument, just a bit of folksy style explanation. You definitely have more knowledge on this subject than I do. So Thank you.


peace.

p.s. you are correct that 99% of Indians jumping in this discussion have no idea about genetics and migration. They are just repeating Hindutva $hite and peddling it as some kind of pseudo science.

 

[Burger Boy]

Were these people australoids, mongoloids, or a mix of them?

For some reason I thought it may've, to a certain extent, also been the other way around with people from the east traveling back west rather than "Indians" going to australia.

Not sure if this is related but I think it's interesting how the pre-historic people of oceania/SE-Asia , whether they were mongols or australoids, were able to travel such far distances by sea on nothing but rafts, thousands of years before ships were made.

They discoved Madgascar before "Africans" did.

hence why some africans in southern africa have something asiatic about them:

I'm assuming that these australoids probably went back west toward India by sea as well.

 

[Icewolf]

Also many of these Aborigines migrated to South India making the Tamil ethnicity

 

[FaujHistorian]

1.
Were these people australoids, mongoloids, or a mix of them?

2.
For some reason I thought it may've, to a certain extent, also been the other way around with people from the east traveling back west rather than "Indians" going to australia.

3.
Not sure if this is related but I think it's interesting how the pre-historic people of oceania/SE-Asia , whether they were mongols or australoids, were able to travel such far distances by sea on nothing but rafts, thousands of years before ships were made.

They discoved Madgascar before "Africans" did.

hence why some africans in southern africa have something asiatic about them:


4.
I'm assuming that these australoids probably went back west toward India by sea as well.

1.

As per my study, humans involved in Africa-India-Australia (AIA) migration were astraloids. The original tribe(s) in Africa even now have "mother" features in them. Like you can find in their faces a bit of mongol features, a bit of Europeans, a bit of astraloids, in essence they are the Adam-and-Eve tribe (this is my term and not a scientific or religiously used one)

2.

This is not proven based on genetic study. The migration so far is AIA.

3.
Water level in Oceans back then was much lower due to global cooling. One plausible theory is that they used logs or very very simple rafts to cross relatively low and short bodies of water. The distances still are significant like in the range of 50 to 100 miles with small islands in between.

Global cooling and resulting drop in water level is possibly one of the reasons these tribes left Africa in the first place. The theory is that temperatures in North like in most of India (except the southern tip), Central Asia, China, Europe were so low that they could not support the lifestyle of Astraloids, so they kept on moving further east and south until they reached Australia. Then they pretty much settled their, isolated until the arrival of Europeans.

Few 1000 years later, global warming made other migrations possible. Such migrations include:

Africa-Middle East-Europe (AME) migration,
Africa-Middle East-Central Asia (AMC).
AMC-China, and
AMC-India
AMC-Russia
AMC-Russia-America migration (the oceans were cool enough to provide sort of land bridge between Russia and America. This made native Indians to make a jump from Russia to North America and then to South America).

4.
This assumption so far is invalid. There is no proof at least genetically that shows East to West Australia-India or Australia-India-Africa migration.

Genetic markers only indicate West-to-East Africa-India-Australia migration.


Peace

 

[Yeti]

Madagascar was also part of India long time back

 

[kalu_miah]

What about mixture of out-of-Africa migrants with these Hominids:

Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Homo erectus (meaning "upright man," from the Latin ērĭgĕre, "to put up, set upright") is an extinct species of hominid that lived from the end of the Pliocene epoch to the later Pleistocene, with the earliest first fossil evidence dating to around 1.8 million years ago and the most recent to around 300,000 years ago. The species originated in Africa and spread as far as Spain, Georgia, India, China and Java.[1][2]

When humans broke off sex with neanderthals | Fox News

When humans broke off sex with neanderthals

By Charles Choi

Published October 05, 2012
LiveScience

Neanderthals apparently last interbred with the ancestors of today's Europeans after modern humans with advanced stone tools expanded out of Africa, researchers say.

The last sex between Neanderthals and modern humans likely occurred as recently as 47,000 years ago, the researchers added.

Modern humans once shared the globe with now-departed human lineages, including the Neanderthals, our closest known extinct relatives. Neanderthals had been around for about 30,000 years when modern humans appeared in the fossil record about 200,000 years ago. Neanderthals disappeared about 30,000 year ago.

In 2010, scientists completed the first sequence of the Neanderthal genome using DNA extracted from fossils, and an examination of the genetic material suggested that modern humans' ancestors occasionally successfully interbred with Neanderthals. Recent estimates reveal that Neanderthal DNA makes up 1 percent to 4 percent of modern Eurasian genomes, perhaps endowing some people with the robust immune systems they enjoy today.

The Neanderthal genome revealed that people outside Africa share more genetic variants with Neanderthals than Africans do. One possible explanation is that modern humans mixed with Neanderthals after the modern lineage began appearing outside Africa at least 100,000 years ago. Another, more complex scenario is that an African group ancestral to both Neanderthals and certain modern human populations genetically diverged from other Africans beginning about 230,000 years ago. This group then stayed genetically distinct until it eventually left Africa. [Top 10 Mysteries of the First Humans]

To shed light on why Neanderthals appear most closely related to people outside Africa, researchers looked at similar DNA chunks in European and Neanderthal genomes. When sperm and egg cells are created, the strands of DNA within them break and rejoin to form new combinations of genetic material. This "recombination" decreases the length of the chunks in each generation. By comparing lengths, "we can estimate when the two populations last shared genes," explained researcher Sriram Sankararaman, a statistical geneticist at Harvard Medical School.

The research team estimates modern humans and Neanderthals last exchanged genes between 37,000 and 86,000 years ago, and most likely 47,000 to 65,000 years ago. This is well after modern humans began expanding outside Africa, but potentially before they started spreading across Eurasia.

These findings suggest modern humans last shared ancestors with Neanderthals during the period known as the Upper Paleolithic. Back then, modern humans had begun using relatively advanced stone tools, such as knife blades, spear points, and engraving and drilling implements.

"I think we will be able to get new insights on how modern humans adapted as they occupied new regions," Sankararaman told LiveScience. "It shows the power of genetic data to learn about historical events."

Future research will explore other prehistoric interbreeding events, such as the apparent mixing between ancestors of modern Papuans and the recently unearthed extinct human lineage known as the Denisovans.

"There are technical challenges here," Sankararaman said. "Papuans have had gene flow from Neanderthals and from Denisovans. That makes it challenging to tease their contributions apart."

The scientists detailed their findings online Oct. 4 in the journal PLoS Genetics.

 

[Bang Galore]

p.s. you are correct that 99% of Indians jumping in this discussion have no idea about genetics and migration. They are just repeating Hindutva $hite and peddling it as some kind of pseudo science.

A bit unnecessary that. Especially considering that the original comment was directed towards me. I responded to a member and was in turn replied by another member (again, like in your post, with unnecessary spite). Gave links in my reply to that post. The study i quoted from is now a widely quoted study in India and not necessarily by "Hindu nationalists" alone. While it does have some bearing on the Aryan Invasion theory, I'm yet to come across any criticism (doesn't mean there are aren't, merely that I have not come across them) of this study & considering the institutions behind it, is widely accepted by most. If you disagree, that's fine; I have no issues with an alternate opinion backed by studies that suggest something different. Genetics is no place for dogmatic behaviour and contrary to your opinion, I have no trouble accepting whatever is proved.

Arguing a point by attributing motives (hindutva $hite and all....) is a poor way of rebuttal (if at all there was a rebuttal). As Einstein said " All of us are ignorant, only on different subjects". Issuing certificates becomes you even less. A bit disappointed that you chose to go down that route.

 

[newdelhinsa]

Those "Indians" were the aborigines that spread mainly along Indian south and later in the Ganga valley as first major wave out of Africa. Genetic study is good but just look for big flat noses and Indian faces similar to Australian aborigines.


Modern day Indians (with Asian or European noses/faces) on the other hand migrated from north West as second (and subsequent) wave(s) out of central Asia.

Later successive waves from NW brought Brahmanism that turned the local aborigines of Ganga valley and Indian south to "the lowest cast", the shudras, the untouchable.

By the way the Brahmanism could not stay in Indus valley for too long either, and got replaced by more egalitarian faiths.

However Brahmins' iron clad hold remains strong in the Ganga valley.

By the way we are all just 2,000 generations from the original African tribe(s) that started it all. Amazing! Isn't it?


peace

p.s. just a technical point. No way to start another Pak-India net-war.

I read this utter nonsense. Put some academic studies if you have. How may time you will use word Brahmanism in one post ?

 

[Ayush]

Those "Indians" were the aborigines that spread mainly along Indian south and later in the Ganga valley as first major wave out of Africa. Genetic study is good but just look for big flat noses and Indian faces similar to Australian aborigines.


Modern day Indians (with Asian or European noses/faces) on the other hand migrated from north West as second (and subsequent) wave(s) out of central Asia.

Later successive waves from NW brought Brahmanism that turned the local aborigines of Ganga valley and Indian south to "the lowest cast", the shudras, the untouchable.

By the way the Brahmanism could not stay in Indus valley for too long either, and got replaced by more egalitarian faiths.

However Brahmins' iron clad hold remains strong in the Ganga valley.

By the way we are all just 2,000 generations from the original African tribe(s) that started it all. Amazing! Isn't it?


peace

p.s. just a technical point. No way to start another Pak-India net-war.

are u obsessed with Hindu Brahmins.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

are u obsessed with Hindu Brahmins.

A Brahmin is like a Monk right?

 

[Bang Galore]

A Brahmin is like a Monk right?

Theoretically people who were supposed to be spiritual leaders but quickly became essentially a caste who put themselves on top of the pyramid.

 

[haviZsultan]

Also many of these Aborigines migrated to South India making the Tamil ethnicity

If KS hears that he will go into depression...

@KS, man are you gonna let that one slide? That handle doesn't work otherwise this would probably be a fun place-the members club being a place you can do anything and all...

This is a Tamil hero by the way:

Here you can compare the characteristics.

BTW I have to ask, any talk of genes always bored me. I have no clue why everyone is so interested in them.

 

[newdelhinsa]

are u obsessed with Hindu Brahmins.

What a disappointment it was to read Faujihistorian like that, isn't it ?

A self acclaimed mentor Zaid Hamid says on national TV that when we (Pakistan) will invade India first we will kill all Brahmins. Now you can see the reason behind this obsession. I can post the video but it is in Urdu.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I read this utter nonsense. Put some academic studies if you have. How may time you will use word Brahmanism in one post ?

Journey of Man is a good start for you my dear poster.

It clearly shows how Africans colonized India's southern coast, and then moved on to Australia. Thus the australoids are the first inhabitants of India, the big flat nosed big lipped guys.

This part is scientifically proven by Dr. Wells genetic studies. Off course Dr. Wells is not interested in finding out what happened to these tribes later at the hands of AMC-India waves (see below for more detail).

But we should.

We must ask ourselves a simple question. If these australoids were the first settlers in Indian subcontinent, what happened to them? One obvious theory is that these tribes later suffered a horrendous horrendous holocaust and were turned into Shudras the untouchables. You can still see in the faces of shudra even if you are uwilling to perform detailed genetic studies.

The trouble with so many Indian nationalists (especially from upper castes) is simple. They want to prove to the rest of the world that Indian south is the center of the world. Sort of like primitive man though earth is the center of universe in physical realm.

there are several migrations out of Africa. The first one happens to be Africa-India-Australia (AIA) migration.

But we shouldn't stop there. Because there were many subsequent waves out of Africa such as (Do you need references to all these too? because that will be spoon feeding):

Africa-Middle East-Europe (AME) migration,
Africa-Middle East-Central Asia (AMC).
AMC-China, and
AMC-India
AMC-Russia
AMC-Russia-America migration (the oceans were cool enough to provide sort of land bridge between Russia and America. This made native Indians to make a jump from Russia to North America and then to South America).

But none of you have even dared to look at all these "other" migrations because they do not make Indian south as the center of everything. And the only reason I can see of this selecting blindness is "Brahminism".

Oh by the way Brahminism is just a euphemism that represents upper caste vs. lower caste religious structure in India. In Pakistan there is social structure used for discrimination among tribes but it was never sanctioned by any religion that was ever widespread in the Indus valley. This very aspect makes Indus valley as uniquely different from the Brahmin dominated Ganga valley.

Please do not get allergic to it. It is just a term, that represents untold horrors brought upon the indigenous australoid tribes by none other than the later arrivals from North West by the waves of AMC-India migrations. Because one of these waves brought the Hindutva extremists to Ganga Valley.


peace

What a disappointment it was to read Faujihistorian like that, isn't it ?

A self acclaimed mentor Zaid Hamid says on national TV that when we (Pakistan) will invade India first we will kill all Brahmins. Now you can see the reason behind this obsession. I can post the video but it is in Urdu.

ZH is lunatic only popular among expat Indians. We in Pakistan don't even give 2 hoots to this rabid Mullah.

If Brahmins have any danger, it is not from Pakistani Muslims. I guarantee that.

The real danger to Brahmins is from the Indian lower castes, and you don't have to be PhD to see it and figure it out.


peace