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Generations pay off debts through slavery

Don't sweat it, it's reflex for him. I'd like to know more though.

Was this part of the caste system of farming. Someone did mention that Brahmins are not suppose to work their own lands.

lol You could have very well asked me directly. Handful of posts in this thread, you didn't have to say "Someone".

No, the caste system plays absolutely no part in this. I mentioned Brahmins, because they, if practice priesthood, are not supposed to work in the fields. Having said that, religion wise, they are not forbidden from working in the fields, or the army, but if they do so, they lose their right to practice as a priest.

When they do not work in the fields, they pay the labors in shares of the produce.

Now, the main reason of their protest was their loss of tradition, and not of bonded labor. If they are rich/powerful enough to imposes bonded labor on anyone, who is going to question their priesthood anyway? The main dilemma they faced was, either lose the land, or the priesthood. People have changed, and since it is not easy to find a learned priest anymore, people would accept almost any Brahmin to conduct any ritual. Although, rules are still strict if one were to become the priest/resident of a temple.
Hence the main reason why they protested: either go work in the fields, or become a resident of the temple. Can't do both.
 
Card Sharp,

How about answering this, Are Brick Kiln owners really exploiting poor in China? With such economic growth, don't you think your people should have been self sufficient enough to not fall pray to these crooked brick kiln owners.. What are your thought on this?

bro, i'm born and raised in US and i imagine cardsharp is born in raised in Canada.

anyways, yes it is very illegal in china. personally i've never anywhere besides of beijing and shanghi so i can't tell you how prevalent it is.
 
lol You could have very well asked me directly. Handful of posts in this thread, you didn't have to say "Someone".

No, the caste system plays absolutely no part in this. I mentioned Brahmins, because they, if practice priesthood, are not supposed to work in the fields. Having said that, religion wise, they are not forbidden from working in the fields, or the army, but if they do so, they lose their right to practice as a priest.

When they do not work in the fields, they pay the labors in shares of the produce.

Now, the main reason of their protest was their loss of tradition, and not of bonded labor. If they are rich/powerful enough to imposes bonded labor on anyone, who is going to question their priesthood anyway? The main dilemma they faced was, either lose the land, or the priesthood. People have changed, and since it is not easy to find a learned priest anymore, people would accept almost any Brahmin to conduct any ritual. Although, rules are still strict if one were to become the priest/resident of a temple.
Hence the main reason why they protested: either go work in the fields, or become a resident of the temple. Can't do both.

Sorry I said someone, what you wrote was on the previous page and I was too lazy to click over. Thanks for the clear explanation.
 
bro, i'm born and raised in US and i imagine cardsharp is born in raised in Canada.

anyways, yes it is very illegal in china. personally i've never anywhere besides of beijing and shanghi so i can't tell you how prevalent it is.

Not to get off topic but what I've heard of these cases those people were being abducted or trafficked to remote areas to illegal coal or brick making operations. This kind of crime carries with it a death penalty in China.
 
Anytime... didn't mean to make you feel apologetic lol.

The whole history of the caste is very interesting. Does anyone know why it started? and was it a universal thing wherever Hinduism is practiced?
 
My friend, the most effective way of getting people to our side is by answering their question.

Let's just try to answer their questions.

May be we'd be able to make a few Chinese friends here. :wave:

Go on, I am off this thread now.. BTW I know and have seen contract labors from Bihar and other places working in Punjab, Haryana and UP but never knew anything that they could be slaves. I am yet to encounter a case of slavery. Always heard about it in news though.
 
Not to get off topic but what I've heard of these cases those people were being abducted or trafficked to remote areas to illegal coal or brick making operations. This kind of crime carries with it a death penalty in China.

well, kidnappings and abductions happens everywhere. in the US, the police usually won't do much about it unless you're a young, white, attractive girl tho
 
well, kidnappings and abductions happens everywhere. in the US, the police usually won't do much about it unless you're a young, white, attractive girl tho

Kidnappings and abductions in US does not happen to make a person slave. While in this case, poor people seems to be duped into slavery and forced to work in in-humane working conditions.

The point is you can not justify it by saying that since it happens everywhere so it's not that bad if it happens in China.
 
well, kidnappings and abductions happens everywhere. in the US, the police usually won't do much about it unless you're a young, white, attractive girl tho

You're talking about her right? The American media gets worked up over the stupid stuff.
elizabeth-smart.jpg
 
The whole history of the caste is very interesting. Does anyone know why it started? and was it a universal thing wherever Hinduism is practiced?

In older times, till about 800 B.C., nobody was born in any particular caste. A child was supposedly without a caste till the age of 14, after which his caste depended upon the work he was skillful in. The caste system itself did not define the social/economic strata, and its sole purpose was to help organize the society for a smoother management of the state.

Now, since they did not have written records, all the tradition and knowledge was passed down the generations orally, mainly in the form of songs/poems. And because the knowledge a priest should have had was highly comprehensive, people had to invest almost half of their life becoming skilled priest. So those who were already Brahmins, and worked as teachers/priests/doctors, decided to pass on their knowledge to their own children in the young age itself.

It served two purposes, one noble and one sinister. Noble one was, they created a newer, more skilled generation of teachers/doctors/priests. And the sinister purpose was, they made sure their own children would become priests, irrespective of their mental caliber. However, this monopoly kept getting threatened every now and then, since knowledge can be attained by anyone. So gradually, first as practice, and then as tradition, they set out a rule that any child born into any family will hold the caste of that particular family, and irrespective of his/her skills, will work depending on the caste of the family.

This made up tradition of being born in a particular caste has been shaken and broken in every era, when saints came out of personalities that were born in lowest of castes. In fact the first empire of India was founded by a man born in low caste.
 
MMmmm again a great explanation.

What was the Hindu belief system underpinning/justifying of this or are there none?
 
The whole history of the caste is very interesting. Does anyone know why it started? and was it a universal thing wherever Hinduism is practiced?

Well here it goes:

1. The Vedas, the holiest of scriptures in Hinduism, specify a system of organisation in society as follows:

a. The Brahmins: The priests.
b. The Kshatriyas: The warriors/rulers/kings etc.
c. The Vaishyas: The traders
d. The Dalits: The labourers/proletariat.

Now, according to the vedas, anybody can become any of these four i.e. the son of a Brahmin can become a Dalit and the son of a Dalit can become a brahmin which means that it does not carry from father to son. It depends on the sons knowledge and profession.

Now, the Brahmins, over a period of thousands of years, started manipulating this original structure of the caste system as specified in the Vedas to suit their own interests. They had to keep control of the society in their firm grip.

The Brahmins started projecting this system as one carrying on from father to son, something that was quite different to what was originally specified in the Vedas.

What this implied was that only the son of a Brahmin could become a Brahmin, the son of a Kashatriya would by default become a Kashatriya and so on for traders and dalits.

Now the dalits were actually the poorest of the lot as well the most oppressed of the lot.

Over a period of thousands of years, this distorted interpretation of the caste system led to a widespread discrimination against the Dalits. They became untouchables because of the seemingly unsavory jobs that they practiced. They were the sweepers, the cobblers etc. and these jobs were obviously not the cleanest of all the jobs and this led to their being discriminated against.

Slowly and slowly, this distorted system spread its roots across the length and breadth of India. It was everywhere and nobody could escape it.

Then came the Mughals and brought Islam with them. Now Islam didn't have any such thing as caste system. This made Islam a very lucrative option for the Dalits and many of them converted to Islam.

Then came the British and brought Christianity with them, Again, like Islam, Christianity had no such thing as Caste system. Again, many Dalits converted to Christianity.

Then India became independent and adopted the British style of governance and democracy. The man who crafted the Indian constitution, Mr. B R Ambedkar was himself a Dalit and under his supervision, India decided to do away with the caste system formally in its contitution.

The Indian constitution proscribed Caste System.

Now as of today, as people are become more and more educated, Caste system is slowly fading away. The progress, I must admit, is very very slow.

It's something that is deeply embedded into the Indian psyche. It's been so for thousands of years.

It's very obvious that something so deeply embedded in society is not going to go away in a few decades. It'll take another hundred years to completely vanish from India.

So that's the story of Caste System in India.
 
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