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General Pervaiz Musharraf's Last Message to Imran Khan just before his death!

If iran could remain harmless and neutral, why couldnt nuclear Pakistan?? Because we love dollars too much.
Why was border open? We could have sealed the border n be neutral? We could have stopped supporting extremists n close those medrassas? What did we achieve? NA in Afghanistan was way better than bearded baboons. Pashtuns of Afghanistan still hate us, even after our so called help.
The destruction that decision brought is still haunting us. Even if we couldn't remain neutral, we could have not allowed americans to infiltrate army and every institution. TTP and many terrorist groups r still here while the US is gone. The US could not destroy two countries, they only pressurized us and our brave generals opened their legs. These are nothing but excuses of a slave mentality.

Iran were not backers of Taliban. They were backing Northern Alliance. Ironically on the same page as the yanks.

They also have a guarded border and did not have Taliban crossing over to hide.

You do know Taliban were backing Bin Laden who had attacked the US on 3 occasions right? Pakistan made the right choice. Taliban say Pakistan did it for dollars, its a slur. Pakistan did it because its the right thing to do. It would have been geopolitical suicide for backing Taliban.

Sure if Pakistan had a monitored border in the 90s and didn't have relations with the Taliban, didn't provide support and didn't allow them to cross over during the war then sure there is a case to be made to remain neutral.

The damage has been done by Sharifs internally, no one else. Also Sharifs were in charge in the 90s.
 
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US doesn't care about Iran enough like it does Pakistan that's why it buys out leaders and constantly makes snark remarks about nukes and what not
They care more about Iran.
 
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Iran were not backers of Taliban. They were backing Northern Alliance. Ironically on the same page as the yanks.

They also have a guarded border and did not have Taliban crossing over to hide.

You do know Taliban were backing Bin Laden who had attacked the US on 3 occasions right? Pakistan made the right choice. Taliban say Pakistan did it for dollars, its a slur. Pakistan did it because its the right thing to do. It would have been geopolitical suicide for backing Taliban.

Sure if Pakistan had a monitored border in the 90s and didn't have relations with the Taliban, didn't provide support and didn't allow them to cross over during the war then sure there is a case to be made to remain neutral.

The damage has been done by Sharifs internally, no one else. Also Sharifs were in charge in the 90s.

Who asked u to side with taliban? That would have been a blunder, but so was becoming a puppy of US. You must be very naive to blame sharifs. We all know who created medrassas, who sent extremists to afghanistan. Why were we involved at all? Iran could remain neutral because they truly were neutral, why couldnt we do the same? It was this army that first obeyed tje US in USSR invasion, and then again post 911. There is one ruler in Pakistan since the beginning and this one ruler is an american puppy, have always been and will always remain one.
I hate sharifs but its stupid to think a civilian PM can even imagine of having such powers, there is one evil behind all the mess. The earlier we realize, the better.
 
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Who asked u to side with taliban? That would have been a blunder, but so was becoming a puppy of US. You must be very naive to blame sharifs. We all know who created medrassas, who sent extremists to afghanistan. Why were we involved at all? Iran could remain neutral because they truly were neutral, why couldnt we do the same? It was this army that first obeyed tje US in USSR invasion, and then again post 911. There is one ruler in Pakistan since the beginning and this one ruler is an american puppy, have always been and will always remain one.
I hate sharifs but its stupid to think a civilian PM can even imagine of having such powers, there is one evil behind all the mess. The earlier we realize, the better.

Are you having difficulty understanding Pakistan had an open border with Afghanistan and Taliban were hiding in Pakistani territory? Why is that so difficult to understand? Did you want Pakistan to ignore this and carry on as normal? In fact Pakistan did do this to an extent because of its stupid misguided public.

How can Pakistan be a puppy when they didn't even have boots on ground in Afghanistan or Pakistan?

Your argument just does not stack up.

The evil is the Sharifs, Pakistan is their hostage.
 
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They care more about Iran.
not back then they didnt

Iran is just an overhyped threat, an uncontrollable pakistan is seen as worse of a threat due to its previous islamist tendencies
 
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So I wanted to relive my formative days and started going through Steve Colls book, Ghost Wars, which has something to say on the events leading up to coup. Apparently, without the knowledge of Pak army chief, CIA had helped the head of ISI to set up an armed unit that was to go and take out OBL. Needless to say, ISI head was a Sharif family flunkey who was double crossing CIA as well Pak army high command! See for yourself:

"At the same time Sharif appointed General Khwaja Ziauddin as the new chief of Pakistani intelligence. This, too, was an overtly political decision. Ziauddin had made his career in the engineering corps, a section of the military that rarely produced army leaders. But he had married into a wealthy, connected family in Lahore, and he was a frequent social visitor at the sprawling Model Town estate of Nawaz Sharif’s influential father. It was a violation of army protocol for a rising general to allow himself to become visible socially, especially under the wing of a civilian political family like the Sharifs. Still, Sharif’s father tapped Ziauddin as a favored brigadier, and he won an appointment to army headquarters, where he worked with the country’s top-secret nuclear program. When Sharif sent him in the fall of 1998 to run ISI, Ziauddin was widely regarded as an emissary and protector of the prime minister.

....But many of Clinton’s senior aides and diplomats, especially those who knew Pakistan well, regarded Sharif as an unusually dull, muddled politician. He seemed to offer a bovine, placid gaze in private meetings where he sometimes read awkwardly from note cards. Still, Sharif tried to make himself indispensable in continuing American-led talks over the region’s nuclear crisis. Now there was suddenly another way for Sharif to make himself useful to the Americans: He could aid the secret effort to capture or kill Osama bin Laden.

....CIA would be out a few hundred thousand dollars on salaries for some retired Pakistani soldiers plus the costs of training and equipment—small change. The commando project could provide a vehicle for deepening contacts and trust among CIA officers, Ziauddin, and other officers in Pakistani intelligence. This could be useful for intelligence collection and, potentially, unilateral recruitments by the CIA. And even if the chances that the commando team would be deployed against bin Laden were very small—less than 1 percent, the most cynical of the Americans estimated—they had to try every conceivable path.18 The White House approved the plan some months later. Through the Islamabad station, the CIA paid salaries and supplied communications and other gear, as directed by Ziauddin. As it turned out, even the most cynical Americans were perhaps not cynical enough about Ziauddin’s motivations. On paper the CIA-funded secret commando team was being trained for action against bin Laden in Afghanistan. But Ziauddin later demonstrated that he saw another role for the unit: as a small, elite strike force loyal to Pakistan’s prime minister and his intelligence chief. If the army ever moved against Sharif, the prime minister would have a secret bodyguard that might be called in to help defend him..."

This account is corroborated by Ayaz Amir in a column for Dawn:


"...It is now coming out in the American press that during their visits
to Washington Shahbaz Sharif and Gen Ziauddin had informed the
Americans about the action contemplated against Gen Parvez
Musharraf. Had the coup against Musharraf succeeded, the Americans,
who consider the Pakistan army an obstacle to how they want to see
Pakistan behave, would not have been displeased. The successful
sacking of Musharraf would have diminished the army by dealing it a
blow to its self-esteem and confidence. No wonder the Americans
seem unhappy with the coup. This is not what they had been banking
on...."

With the appointment of Bajwa, Sharifs finally got their wish which apparently is what all the Mumtaz Qadri and Asma Jehangir fanbois want.

Army has now been converted to Punjab police. Rangeela and Modi will make quite a pairing
 
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If iran could remain harmless and neutral, why couldnt nuclear Pakistan?? Because we love dollars too much.
Why was border open? We could have sealed the border n be neutral? We could have stopped supporting extremists n close those medrassas? What did we achieve? NA in Afghanistan was way better than bearded baboons. Pashtuns of Afghanistan still hate us, even after our so called help.
The destruction that decision brought is still haunting us. Even if we couldn't remain neutral, we could have not allowed americans to infiltrate army and every institution. TTP and many terrorist groups r still here while the US is gone. The US could not destroy two countries, they only pressurized us and our brave generals opened their legs. These are nothing but excuses of a slave mentality.
I think this analysis requires more nuance because this "slave mentality" binary deduction is oblivious of our own limited power potential and ground reality.

Iran has no affinity with Pashtuns. We do. Second, comparing Pakistan to Iran is another bad comparison. They have a commodity that the world wants. We don't.

Can you imagine what the Russian carpet bombing of Afghanistan and its Pashtun areas did to Pakistan and our sense of brotherhood with the suffering Afghans/Pashtuns? Also, if Russians were in Afghanistan then what was to stop their massive land armies to move into Pakistan to get to the warm waters of the Persian Gulf via a land route?

You are deliberately misrepresenting if you think that our generals just give way. Had that been the case then Kashmir would have been done in 1948 and we would not have an Azad Kashmir. Then our generals and military would not have fought 4 wars facing up to an adversary that is at least 3x-7x larger than us in men, material, economy etc. These things should tell you that the khaki color does not run easily despite the silly, politically laced disparaging propaganda against it.

Lastly, Americans are not India. You need to understand the sentiment in the US post 9/11 and the conventional, non-conventional, strategic and financial overmatch the US represents vs. Pakistan. I happened to be there at the time and saw the immense anger in that country and that too against the Taliban and Pakistan, and as a Pakistani, all I could hope for was that Pakistan would play its cards right and thankfully Musharraf did as well as one could, given the circumstances.
 
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khan only repeats rhetoric otherwise he would not have brought in Buzdar because his Mrs is family or whatever with them.

There is meritocracy for the most part in the PA(and other branches) until it’s time for 1 star and above - then favoritism does kick in despite a well recorded and thorough red/green flag performance review system to gauge potential.

That being said - favors are curried earlier on but that is true for most militaries(including the US) - if you served as ADC to a 3-star and make a boo boo during your career later -
You can request some references and help to alleviate the punitive actionz
Who forced shabar zaidi to leave? That would answer pretty much your question

Why don't you just ask him who told him to retire and not to crack down on all those corrupt tax choors
 
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Can you imagine what the Russian carpet bombing of Afghanistan and its Pashtun areas did to Pakistan and our sense of brotherhood with the suffering Afghans/Pashtuns?

Any policy by a "sense of brotherhood" instead of geopolitical principles in the pursuit of national interests is a mistake.

Lastly, Americans are not India. You need to understand the sentiment in the US post 9/11 and the conventional, non-conventional, strategic and financial overmatch the US represents vs. Pakistan. I happened to be there at the time and saw the immense anger in that country and that too against the Taliban and Pakistan, and as a Pakistani, all I could hope for was that Pakistan would play its cards right and thankfully Musharraf did as well as one could given the circumstances.

That anger was given a new lease after the OBL raid, the jailing of Dr. Afridi and the celebrations in Pakistan after the fall of Kabul. Let us all remain aware of this fact.
 
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Any policy by a "sense of brotherhood" instead of geopolitical principles in the pursuit of national interests is a mistake.
This should be plastered in someone's office wall somewhere in Pakistan.

the bradarhood ma bradar disease is a cancer
 
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This should be plastered in someone's office wall somewhere in Pakistan.

the bradarhood ma bradar disease is a cancer

I can think of a few asses it should be nailed to, with nine inch titanium studded shaft ones, using a large bore powder cartridge driven device.
 
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Any policy by a "sense of brotherhood" instead of geopolitical principles in the pursuit of national interests is a mistake.



That anger was given a new lease after the OBL raid, the jailing of Dr. Afridi and the celebrations in Pakistan after the fall of Kabul. Let us all remain aware of this fact.
Call it humanitarian support. Once the Afghans started moving to our tribal areas, the tribal areas were targeted. Pakistan was organically drawn in otherwise nobody in their right minds wanted to poke the Soviet bear.

I am aware of all that has gone on. Including IK's foot in the mouth moment on the emancipation of Afghans post US withdrawal.
 
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CIA had helped the head of ISI to set up an armed unit that was to go and take out OBL. Needless to say, ISI head was a Sharif family flunkey who was double crossing CIA as well Pak army high command! See for yourself:

"At the same time Sharif appointed General Khwaja Ziauddin as the new chief of Pakistani intelligence. This, too, was an overtly political decision. Ziauddin had made his career in the engineering corps, a section of the military that rarely produced army leaders. But he had married into a wealthy, connected family in Lahore, and he was a frequent social visitor at the sprawling Model Town estate of Nawaz Sharif’s influential father. It was a violation of army protocol.."
Just one of the hundreds if not thousands of examples where nepotism/corruption has destroyed this country. This Sharif family deserves to be executed....


@Bleek @FuturePAF @villageidiot @blain2

"...It is now coming out in the American press that during their visits
to Washington Shahbaz Sharif and Gen Ziauddin had informed the
Americans about the action contemplated against Gen Parvez
Musharraf. Had the coup against Musharraf succeeded, the Americans,
who consider the Pakistan army an obstacle to how they want to see
Pakistan behave, would not have been displeased. The successful
sacking of Musharraf would have diminished the army by dealing it a
blow to its self-esteem and confidence. No wonder the Americans
seem unhappy with the coup. This is not what they had been banking
on...."
@Menace2Society Your point about the Sharif family being proven. @TNT

Dynastic politics and these corrupt crooks and their nepotism is a cancer.

The Americans have been trying to get the Pakistan Army under their control and put a leash around its neck, perhaps they have done this with Bajwa. Will there now be a cycle of corrupt Sharif stooges leading the army and sucking up to Americans like slaves?
 
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Just one of the hundreds if not thousands of examples where nepotism/corruption has destroyed this country. This Sharif family deserves to be executed....


@Bleek @FuturePAF @villageidiot @blain2


@Menace2Society Your point about the Sharif family being proven. @TNT

Dynastic politics and these corrupt crooks and their nepotism is a cancer.

The Americans have been trying to get the Pakistan Army under their control and put a leash around its neck, perhaps they have done this with Bajwa. Will there now be a cycle of corrupt Sharif stooges leading the army and sucking up to Americans like slaves?
This is a false premise.

Americans have worked with our armed forces since 1958. In this time, both sides have learned to deal with and also keep each other at arms length.

The Americans don't need to put a leash around the CoAS of Pakistan. They do that to not only us, but everyone else in their sphere of influence by selling us their weapons and then calibrate the control points as and when it suits them. Case in point the dependency that PAF, PA and PN have on many, many American weapon systems.

So the above is the risk and also one of the downsides of dealing with the Americans.

The upside, without a shadow of doubt, is you get the best value for your money with the US made weapons. It is a defense industry that has the most rigorous R&D, testing and operational experience inducting weapons in conflicts. These things aren't lost on our military. The same goes for our Arab brethren and also Turkey. They all realize that Americans make the best weapons which can give us a qualitative edge or at least keep our deterrence in place in the face of our adversary.

Secondly, from an economic perspective, yet again Americans control the world financial market. It is not an overblown assessment but any neutral observer can see the stranglehold of the US on Russia and Iran. If the latter two did not have oil to sell at throw-away prices, they would be all the worse for it. The control of all the key financial institutions like IMF, WB, ADB, and influence over various other institutions of consequence (FATF etc.) adds to the juggernaut the United States is, as such no thinking general of the Pakistan Army would like to cut these ties off. Any politician who does won't be able to get Pakistan very many favorable terms.

With the realignment in Afghanistan, the Americans don't need us, yet we have dependencies on them. This is how the US maintains control over the world. They don't need to pay Bajwa or anyone else to bring them over. Our geo-political needs as a country make us dependent on them.

As such, "bik gaiya, sell-out, late gaiya" nonsense is fine for the usual Twitter bakvas. In the real world, the US power has to be contended with and accommodated. This is as clear as night and day to our establishment. Politicians can pander to the domestic politics at the cost of our relations with the preeminent power in the world, it won't do us any good as a country unless other alternates develop. China isn't there yet.
 
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As such, "bik gaiya, sell-out, late gaiya" nonsense is fine for the usual Twitter bakvas. In the real world, the US power has to be contended with and accommodated. This is as clear as night and day to our establishment. Politicians can pander to the domestic politics at the cost of our relations with the preeminent power in the world, it won't do us any good as a country unless other alternates develop. China isn't there yet.

Can someone please send that memo to the Great Moron Con and have him read it five times a day until memorized?
 
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