General Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

[Hobo1]

I read that too a long time ago. He was obviously biased, but nothing in that story suggests that he would carry his bias to the point of outright lying for another country; exaggeration yes, he was probably an enemy pilot at the time.

Also, I said that Yeager's was an opinion I could respect, not necessarily swallow it whole.

You don't find his opnion biased when after all his praise for PAF pakistan lost so badly.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

You don't find his opnion biased when after all his praise for PAF pakistan lost so badly.

He may be biased, but one has to respect the man's opinion because he was the real deal- a fighter pilot. That said he could still be wrong.

Now, as far as I'm concerned this whole debate is meaningless, because I fail to see the point of claiming a PAF win, apart from natural and justifiable Pakistani pride. It's like saying we won day 2 and 3 of a Test match, when in fact the Test itself was lost.

That aside, one has to respect the enemy, and try to see events from their POV.

 

[Kompromat]

I am sorry, that was a silly retort.

I have read the same extract myself, independent of this reproduction. His colleagues considered Yeager an over-promoted, juvenile loose cannon, and there is ample evidence of his exceeding his brief and climbed into bed with the PAF. His version is anything but fair.

I have never failed to acknowledge, even highlight the truth in the matter of Indo-Pakistani military encounters, for that matter, military encounters anywhere. This self-adulatory piece at the beginning is a travesty of the truth.

Please base your evaluation of the 1965 encounter on the reports and analysis printed by Pakistani authorities themselves, if you wish, including the former chiefs of the PAF. Please do not continue to inflict this blatant propaganda on us.

Chest beating what else ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Chest beating? Not our good old adulation of the white man and our constant pathetic gratitude on receiving attention, which turns to dissolving euphoria if it is favourable attention? Perhaps we should pause to take a look at an article which actually features in PDF. Read for ourselves what Brigadier General Yeager's own colleagues thought of his astonishing feats in 1971? Here goes then.

From PDF 2010

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/77381-right-stuff-wrong-place-chuck-yeagers-crash-landing-pakistan.html

 

[Windjammer]

IAF perfomance against USAF in cope India?

You only seem to know half the story and then your own half, do you have the faintest of idea what happened on the sidelines of Indra Dhanush 2007. !!

@ Topic, since Yeager's remarks are proving hard for some to digest, here are some more sources not mean in praising the PAF.

On Eagles’ Wings
“He was a formidable fellow and I was glad that he was Pakistani and not Egyptian”

(Israel Air Force chief Ezer Weizmen writing about PAF chief Nur Khan in his autobiography, On Eagles’ Wings).

____________________________________________________

Pakistan Air Force.
“One of Asia’s most competent air arms…”

(World Air Power Journal, Vol 6 Summer 1991)

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Pakistan’s Professionals.
“Overall the PAF are a highly professional air force and this is reflected in their high standards of instructions and flying training.”

(Steve Bond commenting about PAF’s flying training program. Journal: Air Forces Monthly, May 1990.)

____________________________________________________

Airforces Monthly
An article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, a reputable UK-based air defence magazine, written by a Russian aviation writer, Sergey Vekhov, for the first time in public, provided a first-hand account about the PAF’s pilots:

“As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders’ School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world”. As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1992, “it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind”.

Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)

____________________________________________________

Jane’s International Defense (June 24, 1998)
The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly ‘professionals’ during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots). The IAF is in an unfortunate position: it lacks an advanced training (and multi-role combat aircraft)

 

[Firemaster]

From PDF 2010

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/77381-right-stuff-wrong-place-chuck-yeagers-crash-landing-pakistan.html

Also notice Chogy's post who himself is an F-15 Pilot.

 

[gslv mk3]

Deleted-No use arguing

 

[Kompromat]

gslv mk3: Don't deviate from the topic , i hate issuing infractions , dont make me do it.

 

[gslv mk3]

gslv mk3: Don't deviate from the topic , i hate issuing infractions , dont make me do it.

Sir this is the 1000th time I am getting annoyed .I just answered some people here asking question about IAF.
Ok pakistan won the war and I am getting out

 

[Kompromat]

Sir this is the 1000th time I am getting annoyed .I just answered some people here asking question about IAF.
Ok pakistan won the war and I am getting out

War is not the subject , we lost terribly for obvious reasons on the ground.

 

[Shinigami]

Aeronaut,

deleted my post and threatened me with an infraction when i talked about the prowess of IAF calling it "off topic".

never mind. playing by the enemies rules is what we r good at

 

[SQ8]

Yor post only has 'he did this', 'he did that' etc.. I will accept proofs if given some.. I do not say that he might be all wrong in his statements.

In a previous comment I have accpeted the possibility that Pakistan pilots were better trained in 71, but if you want me to believe a guy whose merti has been discredited in these pages, move on!

Yes, but one has to see the improvement in the IAF as well.
PAF pilots such as ACdre Sajjad Haider(who I believe is respected in India as well for his pathankot attack) have said this on the record that the IAF was much much better trained, and better led in 71..not to mention better equipped.
In 65..the IAF was like a flying club.. by the admissions of many Indian historians and frustrated IAF pilots.
in 71, this airforce was executing timed , pin point attacks based on the best intelligence(Bengali defectors) and applying excellent tactics to evade the PAF.. and that has ONLY IMPROVED.

 

[SamantK]

War is not the subject , we lost terribly for obvious reasons on the ground.

Can you point out exactly what the topic is? The extract you put up with the embolden parts, quotes Chuck Yeager mentioning the incompetence of IAF in 1971 war along with praise for PAF, so what is the topic here?

 

[Joe Shearer]

A clarification, partly to Windjammer, partly to members at large:

I have no hesitation in acknowledging the high level of skills, of motivation and of training of the PAF. I am personally an admirer of those sterling characters and legendary leaders of men, Asghar Khan and Nur Khan.

I have strong objections to certificates issued by Chuck Yeager. Even then I might have stayed away except for the Roman circus made of Brigadier Yeager's totally unbalanced views about the IAF.

This thread is about Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force. Unfortunately discussing his role and the perceptions about his grip on reality will come into such a subject.

 

[SamantK]

Yes, but one has to see the improvement in the IAF as well.
PAF pilots such as ACdre Sajjad Haider(who I believe is respected in India as well for his pathankot attack) have said this on the record that the IAF was much much better trained, and better led in 71..not to mention better equipped.
In 65..the IAF was like a flying club.. by the admissions of many Indian historians and frustrated IAF pilots.
in 71, this airforce was executing timed , pin point attacks based on the best intelligence(Bengali defectors) and applying excellent tactics to evade the PAF.. and that has ONLY IMPROVED.

I have not had the chance to dig so deep into the various improvements on both sides, thanks for the window!