General Chuck Yeager and the Pakistan Air Force

[SQ8]

Sir can a pilot make out between Mig 21j and Mig 21FL?

Nope..


Could you spot the difference in a crash site? Or even from Below? Look at the first two images.
Which is which?

Both the J and Fl look pretty similar if not for the J's extended hump.

 

[KingMamba]

No offence, but what would an Engineer know about a pilots capabilities?

My uncle is also an engineer for the US army although he does not know about particular pilots and their capabilities, there is no one else on the planet that would know what aircraft's are more capable then others than the people who actually assemble them.

Im not here to beat my chest unlike you; highlighting obviously biased statements. What I wanted to point out was that the serial numbers and tail numbers of the PAF aircrafts have been mentioned in that pdf many times.. that means that the information you said is not available to civilians is actually available.. Do you have any which can show us that data from PAF or Chuck, if he was so meticulous in recording the tail numbers and such information?

Obviously Chuck wouldn't disclose the tail numbers and all other information he was writing about a time in his life that he spent in Pakistan during a war and his observations. If you read the text it is not like he took the information so he can beat his chest later, he specifically stated it was for data analyse or something along the like and he stated he told the pilots of the PAF at the end of the war what they did right and what they didn't.

but your opening post is not battle field data....its a part of one guys autobiography.....where he has to show bias bacause he hd a responsible role in that war and cannot show himself in bad light in his own autobiography...can he?

He stated many times he was there just to observe perhaps he got a little emotionally attached but that does not change the fact that had he even concluded the PAF was decimated it would be justifiable from his own personal deductions. To suggest that this was some kind of face saving conclusion on his part is ludicrous because his legacy is very much secure regardless of how he assesses the outcome of a specific war.

 

[SamantK]

because that is what you guys are here for.. what other reason would an Indian be here?
curiosity?

If you read my earlier response I have already clarified why I am on this thread, which sadly you being a mod are questioning.

I am not trying convince you because i know you will bring back the circular argument once again. I Dont expect a single Indian members to believe Chuck here because they only would if , it was in IAF's favor which is why i said this thread is not aimed at convincing Indians.

You have your own reasons for not believing the arguments presented, up to you. However, its not about whom you started it for, Indians or Pakistanis, you cannot expect a patriotic Indian not to analyse the comments and material presentd and ignore Chucks emotional state.. which was compromised by unknown factors, maybe war adrenaline?

However I would like to ask you something. Why from all my posts you selected the one post which was an attempt to garner an response?*

Nothing compared to the crap out posted on by many Indian authors, some the likes of Pran Chopra.
With claims that would make even yeagers exaggeration look minuscule.

At least you agree, as far as I know the degree of exaggeration is not the topic at hand.. Yeager's *statements whether biased or not is the discussion at hand...

 

[SamantK]

Obviously Chuck wouldn't disclose the tail numbers and all other information he was writing about a time in his life that he spent in Pakistan during a war and his observations. If you read the text it is not like he took the information so he can beat his chest later, he specifically stated it was for data analyse or something along the like and he stated he told the pilots of the PAF at the end of the war what they did right and what they didn't.

Why it is so obvious that he would not disclose the tail numbers, or for that matter Pakistan is beyond me... Please go through my previous post, tail numbers were given by the IAF.. He educated the pilots I have no doubts...

He stated many times he was there just to observe perhaps he got a little emotionally attached but that does not change the fact that had he even concluded the PAF was decimated it would be justifiable from his own personal deductions. To suggest that this was some kind of face saving conclusion on his part is ludicrous because his legacy is very much secure regardless of how he assesses the outcome of a specific war.

Statements of a person who is emotionally attached to can be refuted as biased cause there the matter of heart comes in between not just hard cold facts...

 

[Najam Khan]

Same old Pakistan Vs India Thread. Whatever Pakistanis post is either twisted facts or documented by biased people. Indian's will agree on only those part which goes with their theory...for e.g only the latter part of Chuck Yeager's statement.

"The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] a$$es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war."

 

[EzioAltaïr]

With claims that would make even yeagers exaggeration look minuscule.

But then you do accept that Yeager has exaggerated it right?

 

[SamantK]

Same old Pakistan Vs India Thread. Whatever Pakistanis post is either twisted facts or documented by biased people. Indian's will agree on only those part which goes with their theory...for e.g only the latter part of Chuck Yeager's statement.

"The Pakistanis whipped their [Indians'] a$$es in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war."

Please don't be so naive, he could not write false information when the world knew What was going on.. People would have jumped at him like crazy...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Chuck Yeager's personal plane was destroyed by Indian Air Force....he hates India for this.

Not that everything he would say is a lie but he would certainly make India look down, this gives him satisfaction about his lost plane.

boo hoo

his plane? did he buy it himself? he was in the warzone at the heart of the conflict. his analysis have nothing to do with the loss of his plane which he just mentions in few liners and moves on
otherwise he would have made a case out of it and dragged Indians right left and centre

He is just agitated because his beechcraft was destroyed on ground and he even thought Indira Gandhi ordered IAF to do so.
Imagine if F-16/F-18 was selected for MMRCA and this war happened today A american official will state IAF whipped PAFs a$$

you think American pilots are as petty as Indian Internet Troll force?

 

[Najam Khan]

Please don't be so naive, he could not write false information when the world knew What was going on.. People would have jumped at him like crazy...

He went in the field himself, visited crash sites, visited forward bases, met with pilots and watched original cockpit footages himself....and I bet he was not on Pakistani payroll

 

[Windjammer]

Indians need to learn to accept grit with grain, anything and every thing that puts India in shade is not some form of conspiracy.

The battle of Longewalla floats your boat but all else seems to be pure illusion to the Indians.

If Yeager was emotionally involved with the PAF or had a grudge against the IAF for destroying his aircraft, what's the excuse for the US Commander at the Red Flag whose disclosure on IAF's performance were giving Indians an ear ache.
Remember guys, the world does extend beyond India's borders. !!

 

[gslv mk3]

boo hoo

his plane? did he buy it himself? he was in the warzone at the heart of the conflict. his analysis have nothing to do with the loss of his plane which he just mentions in few liners and moves on
otherwise he would have made a case out of it and dragged Indians right left and centre

After 'Plane alotted to him' was lost he thought it was 'Indias way of giving uncle sam a middile finger' he went to US diplomats to intervene.
need source

you think American pilots are as petty as Indian Internet Troll force?

Thats a pathetic answer.If India was US ally and Pakistan was soviet ally He would have said otherwise.
He goes to praise a Chinese jet because at those days china was USSRs enemy and hence US ally

 

[Joe Shearer]

Leave him Sir, He is the most biased mod of pdf.

I think precisely the opposite. He is one of the most fair. But I honestly have no problem with the mods. In all this time, I have been given a gentle, almost apologetic slap on the wrist, for using a forbidden word. This even though lately I have been going through chronic depression and reacting in savage ways to criticism of any kind.

In this case, I think we are being asked to give the basic message more oxygen, and to criticize it a little less furiously, if at all. Difficult, but that is the message.

 

[EyelessInGaza]

Some threads just make me log back on....Yeager was a hell of a pilot, and if he says Pakistani pilots whipped our a$$es, well it's an informed opinion that I can respect.

It's also an entire war that was fought, not just the PAF against the IAF.

Move on, they were all brave men who fought and many died.

 

[airmarshal]

Honestly, take whichever war theatre, the performance of Soviet air weapons and training against US weapons and training has been disappointing. See it in the Middle East, South Asia or even Southeast Asia.

 

[SamantK]

He went in the field himself, visited crash sites, visited forward bases, met with pilots and watched original cockpit footages himself....and I bet he was not on Pakistani payroll

Yor post only has 'he did this', 'he did that' etc.. I will accept proofs if given some.. I do not say that he might be all wrong in his statements.

In a previous comment I have accpeted the possibility that Pakistan pilots were better trained in 71, but if you want me to believe a guy whose merti has been discredited in these pages, move on!