Gangu Fascism and Indus Nationalism: Who is a Gangu?

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

For us every Indian is 'GUNGU'; accept it with pain/ or happily - your problem.

Your Glorious Gungustan controls both Ganga and Indus

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Is Gangu Fascism connected to ethnicity or religion?

By the accounts of great Maharathis (great chariot warriors) of PDF Ganguism refers to any idea or any personage emanating from coterminous India..PDF generally stakes the claim that Pakistani identity lays in Indus nationalism and not in Ummah promotion

by that account

Musharraf is a Gangoo

Zia-ul-Haq is a Gangoo

Liaqat Ali Khan is from prime Gangustan

Suhrawardy is most definitely a Gangu


many decades of Pakistani Life has been lost to Gangu Fascism,Gangu Economics and Gangu Poltics and Gangu administration ...


Similarly during IK Gujral years and Manmohansingh Years India was under Indus influence


I seriously want to know the ins-and-outs of Indus Nationalism and how does it shape the Pakistani identity.

Anyone who takes a dip in ganga or believes in the dipping thing or pollutes it with ashes etc. is a gangu.

 

[POTTER]

Your Glorious Gungustan controls both Ganga and Indus

Please don't include Kashmir in gangustan until final decision of UN.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Please don't include Kashmir in gangustan until final decision of UN.

US has made UN khokhla with the 2003 invasion of Iraq....UN is an impotent body

 

[Rafeh]

Is Gangu Fascism connected to ethnicity or religion?

By the accounts of great Maharathis (great chariot warriors) of PDF Ganguism refers to any idea or any personage emanating from coterminous India..PDF generally stakes the claim that Pakistani identity lays in Indus nationalism and not in Ummah promotion

by that account

Musharraf is a Gangoo

Zia-ul-Haq is a Gangoo

Liaqat Ali Khan is from prime Gangustan

Suhrawardy is most definitely a Gangu


many decades of Pakistani Life has been lost to Gangu Fascism,Gangu Economics and Gangu Poltics and Gangu administration ...


Similarly during IK Gujral years and Manmohansingh Years India was under Indus influence


I seriously want to know the ins-and-outs of Indus Nationalism and how does it shape the Pakistani identity.

Majority do not believe in indus valley stuff. Most even don’t know it.

To see this read the following:

We are not the indus valley as Indians think of us.

That’s’ because many of us in Pakistan live in reality and truth. Meaning when Indians give their usual arguments of “india-pakistan” is the same at least around indus area, they used the flawed, misunderstood and scientifically totally incorrect concept of “haplogroup testing results” to define “race” and genes.

These are the ancestry tests which you get for few hundred dollar or even were done by national geographic channel. They do not test the actual GENOM which defines the race.

Haplogroup meaning the same common ancestor sometime in the past, usually thousands of years ago. Say in Pakistan’s case at least some 5 thousand years ago among in some and only some indus people of india and Pakistan. Even those people have totally different genes now as shown below.



A Haplgroup is just a marker and NOT a genome and therefore “has nothing to do with race”. That’s a very important distinction often “deceptively or naively used by Indians to fools” Pakistanis that we and they are “the same people”. We are absolutely NOT.

To see this in an extreme example understand this: I may have a same ancestor just a 150 years ago (not thousand) with someone named say tom and yet my entire gene sets is completely different from tom since my immediate ancestors have been living and marrying in different region. His original genes are gone just in 150 years or so.

TO understand this why would that be so consider the following example:

Say I go to Ethiopia and get married to a girl there. Since each parent only contributes to half the genes. Therefore my children will have 50 percent my genes. Then assuming my children don’t return to marry in Pakistan but continue to marry in Ethiopia. Say my son who has 50% of my genes marries an Ethiopian girl. He will give her half of his genes to his children and since he has only 50% of mine, half of those means, only 25% of my genes will go to my grandchildren and rest of the 75% will be Ethiopians now. And so my grand children will have 25 of my gene left in them . My great great grand child will have 12.5 percent of my genes by the same logic. By 7th to 10th generation down the road they will have none of my genes left since additionally a process called gene recombination during conception may reduce generational gene flow even more and increases in some cases (since its random in nature). Still after enough generation all will be gone. They will then have near 100% Ethiopian genes.

So all of my genes are gone and hence those of my off-springs in Ethiopia are no longer are “my race”, even though once I was their ancestor. Very important to realize this.

Yet those children will still have the same haplogroup as rest of Pakistani people but their genes which they acquired from a population away from Pakistan through subsequent marriages in Ethiopia are totally African and they share nothing with Pakistan.

I have white skin, and dark blond hair etc. (just stating fact nothing is implied here) but those 10th generation downward Ethiopian off springs of mine will be totally black. By genes and by race. They will be a difference race than me despite the fact that once I was their ancestor once who had Pakistani aryan genes.

So even when an Indian and Pakistani had the same ancestor say 1000 years say due to marriage, their children now have nothing in common. 5000 years ago is too far to even consider such a possibility, even for indus valley people. Most of Pakistanis as shown below are actually left over of aryans.

So shouldn’t we have lost aryan genes too by the same logic. The answer is NO. Since aryans came in vast numbers. When vast number of people arrive, and they displace and absorb local populations, they have gene pool stability. Their genes survives and gradually alters and displaces the local population genome. .

For example continuing the this example of Ethiopia say if tens of thousands of Pakistanis move into Ethiopia and continue to cross marry with Ethiopians as well as among themselves, then through a process called gene pool stability those Pakistani genes will survive. So they will have some of the Pakistani genes in them long after.

Pakistani indus valley genes is a myth mostly believed and propagated by those are either ignorant of genetic science or just look or feel Indian themselves. They try to unite Pakistan under indus valley banner since its gives them “racial security” that they won’t be rejected by their fellow Pakistanis.

WE need to test the full human genome to determine who is who. The only person in Pakistan who has his full genome tested is Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman who is 6th person in the world to have full human genome tested.

Out of 280,000, more than and I repeat more than 200,000 of his SNPs are western Europeans meaning Aryans. That is he has 71 percent of his genome from Europe and he is majority European. NOT indus. He is arayn like Most of Pakistanis. Paper on him is available somewhere online.

Even though he was born in new dehli, rest assured he is an ethnic “Punjabi”. He is not white in skin color but has light brown skin yet majority of his genome is European. We selected him randomly based on his contributions to Pakistan. He is aryans (arab look like in his case) You can tell that because of his aryan skull and facial feature which are found in abundance in Pakistan but NOT in india. Just stating facts not being racist here.

There are other Pakistanis such as northern Punjabis, jat Punjabis, Hindkowan Punjabis, Pashtunes, portions of sindhis, ethnic Baloch, northern Pakistanis and kashmiris who likely will have even higher European genes than him. Just a simple extrapolation.

The indus genes which thanks to, no offence “indian propaganda” are called “Indian man” genes sometimes by say Chinese when reality they were indus people of Pakistan were “Iranian farmers” originally who moved from iran to baluchsitan and then to Punjab/Sindh finally.

Yes there were indus valleys associated or at least communities trading with them in some and I repeat only in some parts of northern india but a lot of these have nothing to do with classical indus valley people of Pakistan. Their genes have shown to be very diverse (find it yourself on web, there are now even “confessional” papers by “wanna be indian Pakistan same” Indian geneticists”.

In face each subgroup of indus valley people had diverse genes as shown by recent studies. They were NOT one race people to begin with. Even if Pakistanis were all indus valley people today, we would be even more racially different from each in Pakistan since at least largely aryan/Europeans genes has made us more closer within Pakistan in race then the rest of world (except iran, afghansitan and central asia off course who are closer to us in one way or the other genetically).

Some of the indus valley settlers came from central asia, some from Iraq, some from native populations of Afghanistan, some Indian indus valley “like settlements” were off shoots of south indians or from “java man” civilization” (i.e. closed to Indonesians) etc. They were diverse races of people. NOT one race.

IN Pakistan in addition to massive aryan population setttlemnt we have other “races settled”.

For example nearly a million Lebanese settled down in Pakistan during crusade times when they arrived as refugees and later more in waves giving Pakistanis 2 to 8% percent of Levantine (aka north African genese). Google “Yap+ Pakistan” to see that. I also read it in some European journal while I was in France.

Furthermore during Khanate times Turkish traders and tribes settled in Pakistan doubling Pakistani population over 500 years time period and not to mention Afghanistan and central Asians moving into Pakistan all the time etc.

Later waves of aryans arrived in Pakistan along with aryan derivatives (e.g. scythians etc) and as well as waves of Kurdish people, Greek people, etc settling everywhere else.

The point is Pakistan has accumulated vast and diverse genes. And YES no one came and raped us to make us fairer than indians. WE are fair and look different overall compared to Indians because settlers brought their women with them in Pakistan. Otherwise as described above due to genetic recombination if we had the same “race mothers’ as Indians do, we would have reverted back to “indus lool alikes” again (i..e short, very black, deeply socketed eyes etc.) over few generations.

That does not mean anyone is superior than the others. Its just means we in Pakistan are largely different from india and most of us have our own unique genome. That’s all.

The invaders to Pakistan came “with their women” and not leaving them in Russian steppe or in lebenaon or in Afghanistan to rape us as some Indians say. It does not work that way. They were refugees, settlers, traders etc. They settled in Pakistan. That’s why Pakistanis women has the most diverse genome in this entire region (google it, even Pakistani Punjabi women have so diverse maternal DNA (from their mothers) that their mothers likely came from far flung areas of central asia etc.).

The point is “indus Pakistan” is a myth (not talking about the pdf member with same name, he is real )

Musharaf has partly Pashtun ancestry by the way.

We all have a very diverse genes in Pakistan unlike india. Though whenever we will full human genome tested on large scale, we will cluster together as “aryan people of Pakistan” no matter where they came from.

The Ethnic Pakistani people are "different People" than Indians. We are NOT your “Asian negros” that surrender our women to some invaders to become fair.


To see this read on


Roughly 70% of Pakistanis that is 150 Million are direct descent of central asian origin people (from Russian steppe near Ukraine region). These are direct descendant of Aryan people.


These include


1. 50 million Pashtuns: (25 milllions in KP, 7 to 9 in Tribal area, 7 million in Karachi including Rohilla Pashtuns, 6 millions in Baluchistan and rest in Punjab and Sindh".

2. Majority of punjabi and sindhi, Baloch, Kashmir, Northern pakistani people along with rest of Pakistan etc.


Rest of 70 million Pakistanis are various mixtures of earlier indigenous populations as well as other people.


The urdu speaking people of Karachi are mostly either central asian, iranic, Pashtuns (therefore also aryans) or in smaller number from south and central india.


Plus we have Bengalis and African sub-population (2 millions may be) and one million Hazara people.


Yes we have some native indian people such as people of Makran in port city of Gwadar as well as "these dalits who marry chinese for money". But we see them as “outsiders”, discriminate against them and some even consider it offensives to marry these dalit people (just like Ethiopians face such situations in Israel).


The point is the ethnic Pakistanis which form the overwhelming majority of modern have nothing to do with india including everybody. Pakistan are not indians, even when some look like them due to being in the same climate. Majority of indians have nothing to do with us except Kashmiris and some right next to our border with india.



We do have "different bones and facial structure compared to indians EVEN when we are brown". Indians have different Indian looks even when they are very fair (very rare).



P.S. I just wanted to refute this false “indus valley people”. I am replying to @Juggernaut_is_here because he became only Indian in the world to acknowledge that Pakistanis might be “different people”, otherwise we are sick and tired of listening to “haplogroup” based studies to falsely prove india Pakistan same, which as discussed above is NOT about actual genes. Genese can widely different than common ancestor. Genes make us who we are racially not haplogroup. So this this myth of “northern Indian component and south Indian component which is derived from Haplgroup testing is “a myth” and nothing more. Those tests do not tell us about the actual genes. But some partial ancestors wichi are common throughout humanity. Also I won’t reply to the rest of Indians since they can believe whatever they think. Google yourself to and find the truth or deceive yourselves. Pakistan is Pakistan. India is india.

Current People of Pakistan whether they came from Pakistan or afghanistan, we are all ONE race. Have intermarried and are overwhelmingly muslims. That's our identity. We are MUSLIMS. First, second and Last. Islam is OUR RACE. Period.

Also common ancestor or haplogroup does not mean same person as ancesotor but from a related region in indus valley case from people related to iranian farmer's communities. So we don't have single "dady" with indians". Even those "rare" indians who had iranian dady. We had different one. Even thought both may come from various regions of iran. Most of our "Pakistani dadies and momies" came from central asia.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

Majority do not believe in indus valley stuff. Most even don’t know it.

To see this read the following:

We are not the indus valley as Indians think of us.

That’s’ because many of us in Pakistan live in reality and truth. Meaning when Indians give their usual arguments of “india-pakistan” is the same at least around indus area, they used the flawed, misunderstood and scientifically totally incorrect concept of “haplogroup testing results” to define “race” and genes.

These are the ancestry tests which you get for few hundred dollar or even were done by national geographic channel. They do not test the actual GENOM which defines the race.

Haplogroup meaning the same common ancestor sometime in the past, usually thousands of years ago. Say in Pakistan’s case at least some 5 thousand years ago among in some and only some indus people of india and Pakistan. Even those people have totally different genes now as shown below.



A Haplgroup is just a marker and NOT a genome and therefore “has nothing to do with race”. That’s a very important distinction often “deceptively or naively used by Indians to fools” Pakistanis that we and they are “the same people”. We are absolutely NOT.

To see this in an extreme example understand this: I may have a same ancestor just a 150 years ago (not thousand) with someone named say tom and yet my entire gene sets is completely different from tom since my immediate ancestors have been living and marrying in different region. His original genes are gone just in 150 years or so.

TO understand this why would that be so consider the following example:

Say I go to Ethiopia and get married to a girl there. Since each parent only contributes to half the genes. Therefore my children will have 50 percent my genes. Then assuming my children don’t return to marry in Pakistan but continue to marry in Ethiopia. Say my son who has 50% of my genes marries an Ethiopian girl. He will give her half of his genes to his children and since he has only 50% of mine, half of those means, only 25% of my genes will go to my grandchildren and rest of the 75% will be Ethiopians now. And so my grand children will have 25 of my gene left in them . My great great grand child will have 12.5 percent of my genes by the same logic. By 7th to 10th generation down the road they will have none of my genes left since additionally a process called gene recombination during conception may reduce generational gene flow even more and increases in some cases (since its random in nature). Still after enough generation all will be gone. They will then have near 100% Ethiopian genes.

So all of my genes are gone and hence those of my off-springs in Ethiopia are no longer are “my race”, even though once I was their ancestor. Very important to realize this.

Yet those children will still have the same haplogroup as rest of Pakistani people but their genes which they acquired from a population away from Pakistan through subsequent marriages in Ethiopia are totally African and they share nothing with Pakistan.

I have white skin, and dark blond hair etc. (just stating fact nothing is implied here) but those 10th generation downward Ethiopian off springs of mine will be totally black. By genes and by race. They will be a difference race than me despite the fact that once I was their ancestor once who had Pakistani aryan genes.

So even when an Indian and Pakistani had the same ancestor say 1000 years say due to marriage, their children now have nothing in common. 5000 years ago is too far to even consider such a possibility, even for indus valley people. Most of Pakistanis as shown below are actually left over of aryans.

So shouldn’t we have lost aryan genes too by the same logic. The answer is NO. Since aryans came in vast numbers. When vast number of people arrive, and they displace and absorb local populations, they have gene pool stability. Their genes survives and gradually alters and displaces the local population genome. .

For example continuing the this example of Ethiopia say if tens of thousands of Pakistanis move into Ethiopia and continue to cross marry with Ethiopians as well as among themselves, then through a process called gene pool stability those Pakistani genes will survive. So they will have some of the Pakistani genes in them long after.

Pakistani indus valley genes is a myth mostly believed and propagated by those are either ignorant of genetic science or just look or feel Indian themselves. They try to unite Pakistan under indus valley banner since its gives them “racial security” that they won’t be rejected by their fellow Pakistanis.

WE need to test the full human genome to determine who is who. The only person in Pakistan who has his full genome tested is Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman who is 6th person in the world to have full human genome tested.

Out of 280,000, more than and I repeat more than 200,000 of his SNPs are western Europeans meaning Aryans. That is he has 71 percent of his genome from Europe and he is majority European. NOT indus. He is arayn like Most of Pakistanis. Paper on him is available somewhere online.

Even though he was born in new dehli, rest assured he is an ethnic “Punjabi”. He is not white in skin color but has light brown skin yet majority of his genome is European. We selected him randomly based on his contributions to Pakistan. He is aryans (arab look like in his case) You can tell that because of his aryan skull and facial feature which are found in abundance in Pakistan but NOT in india. Just stating facts not being racist here.

There are other Pakistanis such as northern Punjabis, jat Punjabis, Hindkowan Punjabis, Pashtunes, portions of sindhis, ethnic Baloch, northern Pakistanis and kashmiris who likely will have even higher European genes than him. Just a simple extrapolation.

The indus genes which thanks to, no offence “indian propaganda” are called “Indian man” genes sometimes by say Chinese when reality they were indus people of Pakistan were “Iranian farmers” originally who moved from iran to baluchsitan and then to Punjab/Sindh finally.

Yes there were indus valleys associated or at least communities trading with them in some and I repeat only in some parts of northern india but a lot of these have nothing to do with classical indus valley people of Pakistan. Their genes have shown to be very diverse (find it yourself on web, there are now even “confessional” papers by “wanna be indian Pakistan same” Indian geneticists”.

In face each subgroup of indus valley people had diverse genes as shown by recent studies. They were NOT one race people to begin with. Even if Pakistanis were all indus valley people today, we would be even more racially different from each in Pakistan since at least largely aryan/Europeans genes has made us more closer within Pakistan in race then the rest of world (except iran, afghansitan and central asia off course who are closer to us in one way or the other genetically).

Some of the indus valley settlers came from central asia, some from Iraq, some from native populations of Afghanistan, some Indian indus valley “like settlements” were off shoots of south indians or from “java man” civilization” (i.e. closed to Indonesians) etc. They were diverse races of people. NOT one race.

IN Pakistan in addition to massive aryan population setttlemnt we have other “races settled”.

For example nearly a million Lebanese settled down in Pakistan during crusade times when they arrived as refugees and later more in waves giving Pakistanis 2 to 8% percent of Levantine (aka north African genese). Google “Yap+ Pakistan” to see that. I also read it in some European journal while I was in France.

Furthermore during Khanate times Turkish traders and tribes settled in Pakistan doubling Pakistani population over 500 years time period and not to mention Afghanistan and central Asians moving into Pakistan all the time etc.

Later waves of aryans arrived in Pakistan along with aryan derivatives (e.g. scythians etc) and as well as waves of Kurdish people, Greek people, etc settling everywhere else.

The point is Pakistan has accumulated vast and diverse genes. And YES no one came and raped us to make us fairer than indians. WE are fair and look different overall compared to Indians because settlers brought their women with them in Pakistan. Otherwise as described above due to genetic recombination if we had the same “race mothers’ as Indians do, we would have reverted back to “indus lool alikes” again (i..e short, very black, deeply socketed eyes etc.) over few generations.

That does not mean anyone is superior than the others. Its just means we in Pakistan are largely different from india and most of us have our own unique genome. That’s all.

The invaders to Pakistan came “with their women” and not leaving them in Russian steppe or in lebenaon or in Afghanistan to rape us as some Indians say. It does not work that way. They were refugees, settlers, traders etc. They settled in Pakistan. That’s why Pakistanis women has the most diverse genome in this entire region (google it, even Pakistani Punjabi women have so diverse maternal DNA (from their mothers) that their mothers likely came from far flung areas of central asia etc.).

The point is “indus Pakistan” is a myth (not talking about the pdf member with same name, he is real )

Musharaf has partly Pashtun ancestry by the way.

We all have a very diverse genes in Pakistan unlike india. Though whenever we will full human genome tested on large scale, we will cluster together as “aryan people of Pakistan” no matter where they came from.

The Ethnic Pakistani people are "different People" than Indians. We are NOT your “Asian negros” that surrender our women to some invaders to become fair.


To see this read on


Roughly 70% of Pakistanis that is 150 Million are direct descent of central asian origin people (from Russian steppe near Ukraine region). These are direct descendant of Aryan people.


These include


1. 50 million Pashtuns: (25 milllions in KP, 7 to 9 in Tribal area, 7 million in Karachi including Rohilla Pashtuns, 6 millions in Baluchistan and rest in Punjab and Sindh".

2. Majority of punjabi and sindhi, Baloch, Kashmir, Northern pakistani people along with rest of Pakistan etc.


Rest of 70 million Pakistanis are various mixtures of earlier indigenous populations as well as other people.


The urdu speaking people of Karachi are mostly either central asian, iranic, Pashtuns (therefore also aryans) or in smaller number from south and central india.


Plus we have Bengalis and African sub-population (2 millions may be) and one million Hazara people.


Yes we have some native indian people such as people of Makran in port city of Gwadar as well as "these dalits who marry chinese for money". But we see them as “outsiders”, discriminate against them and some even consider it offensives to marry these dalit people (just like Ethiopians face such situations in Israel).


The point is the ethnic Pakistanis which form the overwhelming majority of modern have nothing to do with india including everybody. Pakistan are not indians, even when some look like them due to being in the same climate. Majority of indians have nothing to do with us except Kashmiris and some right next to our border with india.



We do have "different bones and facial structure compared to indians EVEN when we are brown". Indians have different Indian looks even when they are fair (very rare). They don’t have that mostly clean “aryan looks” which we do.



P.S. I just wanted to refute this false “indus valley people”. I am replying to @Juggernaut_is_here because he became only Indian in the world to acknowledge that Pakistanis might be “different people”, otherwise we are sick and tired of listening to “haplogroup” based studies to falsely prove india Pakistan same, which as discussed above is NOT about actual genes. Genese can widely different than common ancestor. Genes make us who we are racially not haplogroup. So this this myth of “northern Indian component and south Indian component which is derived from Haplgroup testing is “a myth” and nothing more. Those tests do not tell us about the actual genes. But some partial ancestors wichi are common throughout humanity. Also I won’t reply to the rest of Indians since they can believe whatever they think. Google yourself to and find the truth or deceive yourselves. Pakistan is Pakistan. India is india.

Current People of Pakistan whether they came from Pakistan or afghanistan, we are all ONE race. Have intermarried and are overwhelmingly muslims. That's our identity. We are MUSLIMS. First, second and Last. Islam is OUR RACE. Period.

Also common ancestor or haplogroup does not mean same person as ancesotor but from a related region in indus valley case from people related to iranian farmer's communities. So we don't have single "dady" with indians". Even those "rare" indians who had iranian dady. We had different one. Even thought both may come from various regions of iran. Most of our "Pakistani dadies and momies" came from central asia.

Seriously entertaining and quality post...I would agree with you, we have that Veddic (Dravidian not "Vedic") roundness that many Pakistanis donot possess....But some Pakistanis still do..Like the Science and Tech minister of yours who has a very flattened nose...but yes many Pakistanis have an "angular" look that anybody from South Asia can pick up ...Acquiline nose and much more pronounced jawline...Much like How Kurds can pick up who is an Arab and who is a Kurd but whites might think both look exactly the same ......The seperation between India and Pakistan is 10,000 years old...but it was never a complete seperation...when the whole world was covered by forests, there was a huge gap from southern Haryana till Gujarat between India and Pakistan...but a narrow strip of forest always connected India and Pakistan...This narrow strip of plain has been the conduit of violent as well as peaceful exchanges right from 500 BCE to 1965 CE.....During my study days and student party days, I had a huge number of Pakistani acquaintances...What I would say is that majority Pakistanis look different than majority Indians from my samples...but a small but substantial minority looked the same (ca. 20%)

That Historical Tiger Range was scarcely present in present day Pakistan is also another indicator that the ecology changes drastically between India and Pakistan

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Indus Pakistan

You guys owe it to yourself to enjoy the fine work by the poster above me

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Majority do not believe in indus valley stuff. Most even don’t know it.

To see this read the following:

We are not the indus valley as Indians think of us.

That’s’ because many of us in Pakistan live in reality and truth. Meaning when Indians give their usual arguments of “india-pakistan” is the same at least around indus area, they used the flawed, misunderstood and scientifically totally incorrect concept of “haplogroup testing results” to define “race” and genes.

These are the ancestry tests which you get for few hundred dollar or even were done by national geographic channel. They do not test the actual GENOM which defines the race.

Haplogroup meaning the same common ancestor sometime in the past, usually thousands of years ago. Say in Pakistan’s case at least some 5 thousand years ago among in some and only some indus people of india and Pakistan. Even those people have totally different genes now as shown below.



A Haplgroup is just a marker and NOT a genome and therefore “has nothing to do with race”. That’s a very important distinction often “deceptively or naively used by Indians to fools” Pakistanis that we and they are “the same people”. We are absolutely NOT.

To see this in an extreme example understand this: I may have a same ancestor just a 150 years ago (not thousand) with someone named say tom and yet my entire gene sets is completely different from tom since my immediate ancestors have been living and marrying in different region. His original genes are gone just in 150 years or so.

TO understand this why would that be so consider the following example:

Say I go to Ethiopia and get married to a girl there. Since each parent only contributes to half the genes. Therefore my children will have 50 percent my genes. Then assuming my children don’t return to marry in Pakistan but continue to marry in Ethiopia. Say my son who has 50% of my genes marries an Ethiopian girl. He will give her half of his genes to his children and since he has only 50% of mine, half of those means, only 25% of my genes will go to my grandchildren and rest of the 75% will be Ethiopians now. And so my grand children will have 25 of my gene left in them . My great great grand child will have 12.5 percent of my genes by the same logic. By 7th to 10th generation down the road they will have none of my genes left since additionally a process called gene recombination during conception may reduce generational gene flow even more and increases in some cases (since its random in nature). Still after enough generation all will be gone. They will then have near 100% Ethiopian genes.

So all of my genes are gone and hence those of my off-springs in Ethiopia are no longer are “my race”, even though once I was their ancestor. Very important to realize this.

Yet those children will still have the same haplogroup as rest of Pakistani people but their genes which they acquired from a population away from Pakistan through subsequent marriages in Ethiopia are totally African and they share nothing with Pakistan.

I have white skin, and dark blond hair etc. (just stating fact nothing is implied here) but those 10th generation downward Ethiopian off springs of mine will be totally black. By genes and by race. They will be a difference race than me despite the fact that once I was their ancestor once who had Pakistani aryan genes.

So even when an Indian and Pakistani had the same ancestor say 1000 years say due to marriage, their children now have nothing in common. 5000 years ago is too far to even consider such a possibility, even for indus valley people. Most of Pakistanis as shown below are actually left over of aryans.

So shouldn’t we have lost aryan genes too by the same logic. The answer is NO. Since aryans came in vast numbers. When vast number of people arrive, and they displace and absorb local populations, they have gene pool stability. Their genes survives and gradually alters and displaces the local population genome. .

For example continuing the this example of Ethiopia say if tens of thousands of Pakistanis move into Ethiopia and continue to cross marry with Ethiopians as well as among themselves, then through a process called gene pool stability those Pakistani genes will survive. So they will have some of the Pakistani genes in them long after.

Pakistani indus valley genes is a myth mostly believed and propagated by those are either ignorant of genetic science or just look or feel Indian themselves. They try to unite Pakistan under indus valley banner since its gives them “racial security” that they won’t be rejected by their fellow Pakistanis.

WE need to test the full human genome to determine who is who. The only person in Pakistan who has his full genome tested is Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman who is 6th person in the world to have full human genome tested.

Out of 280,000, more than and I repeat more than 200,000 of his SNPs are western Europeans meaning Aryans. That is he has 71 percent of his genome from Europe and he is majority European. NOT indus. He is arayn like Most of Pakistanis. Paper on him is available somewhere online.

Even though he was born in new dehli, rest assured he is an ethnic “Punjabi”. He is not white in skin color but has light brown skin yet majority of his genome is European. We selected him randomly based on his contributions to Pakistan. He is aryans (arab look like in his case) You can tell that because of his aryan skull and facial feature which are found in abundance in Pakistan but NOT in india. Just stating facts not being racist here.

There are other Pakistanis such as northern Punjabis, jat Punjabis, Hindkowan Punjabis, Pashtunes, portions of sindhis, ethnic Baloch, northern Pakistanis and kashmiris who likely will have even higher European genes than him. Just a simple extrapolation.

The indus genes which thanks to, no offence “indian propaganda” are called “Indian man” genes sometimes by say Chinese when reality they were indus people of Pakistan were “Iranian farmers” originally who moved from iran to baluchsitan and then to Punjab/Sindh finally.

Yes there were indus valleys associated or at least communities trading with them in some and I repeat only in some parts of northern india but a lot of these have nothing to do with classical indus valley people of Pakistan. Their genes have shown to be very diverse (find it yourself on web, there are now even “confessional” papers by “wanna be indian Pakistan same” Indian geneticists”.

In face each subgroup of indus valley people had diverse genes as shown by recent studies. They were NOT one race people to begin with. Even if Pakistanis were all indus valley people today, we would be even more racially different from each in Pakistan since at least largely aryan/Europeans genes has made us more closer within Pakistan in race then the rest of world (except iran, afghansitan and central asia off course who are closer to us in one way or the other genetically).

Some of the indus valley settlers came from central asia, some from Iraq, some from native populations of Afghanistan, some Indian indus valley “like settlements” were off shoots of south indians or from “java man” civilization” (i.e. closed to Indonesians) etc. They were diverse races of people. NOT one race.

IN Pakistan in addition to massive aryan population setttlemnt we have other “races settled”.

For example nearly a million Lebanese settled down in Pakistan during crusade times when they arrived as refugees and later more in waves giving Pakistanis 2 to 8% percent of Levantine (aka north African genese). Google “Yap+ Pakistan” to see that. I also read it in some European journal while I was in France.

Furthermore during Khanate times Turkish traders and tribes settled in Pakistan doubling Pakistani population over 500 years time period and not to mention Afghanistan and central Asians moving into Pakistan all the time etc.

Later waves of aryans arrived in Pakistan along with aryan derivatives (e.g. scythians etc) and as well as waves of Kurdish people, Greek people, etc settling everywhere else.

The point is Pakistan has accumulated vast and diverse genes. And YES no one came and raped us to make us fairer than indians. WE are fair and look different overall compared to Indians because settlers brought their women with them in Pakistan. Otherwise as described above due to genetic recombination if we had the same “race mothers’ as Indians do, we would have reverted back to “indus lool alikes” again (i..e short, very black, deeply socketed eyes etc.) over few generations.

That does not mean anyone is superior than the others. Its just means we in Pakistan are largely different from india and most of us have our own unique genome. That’s all.

The invaders to Pakistan came “with their women” and not leaving them in Russian steppe or in lebenaon or in Afghanistan to rape us as some Indians say. It does not work that way. They were refugees, settlers, traders etc. They settled in Pakistan. That’s why Pakistanis women has the most diverse genome in this entire region (google it, even Pakistani Punjabi women have so diverse maternal DNA (from their mothers) that their mothers likely came from far flung areas of central asia etc.).

The point is “indus Pakistan” is a myth (not talking about the pdf member with same name, he is real )

Musharaf has partly Pashtun ancestry by the way.

We all have a very diverse genes in Pakistan unlike india. Though whenever we will full human genome tested on large scale, we will cluster together as “aryan people of Pakistan” no matter where they came from.

The Ethnic Pakistani people are "different People" than Indians. We are NOT your “Asian negros” that surrender our women to some invaders to become fair.


To see this read on


Roughly 70% of Pakistanis that is 150 Million are direct descent of central asian origin people (from Russian steppe near Ukraine region). These are direct descendant of Aryan people.


These include


1. 50 million Pashtuns: (25 milllions in KP, 7 to 9 in Tribal area, 7 million in Karachi including Rohilla Pashtuns, 6 millions in Baluchistan and rest in Punjab and Sindh".

2. Majority of punjabi and sindhi, Baloch, Kashmir, Northern pakistani people along with rest of Pakistan etc.


Rest of 70 million Pakistanis are various mixtures of earlier indigenous populations as well as other people.


The urdu speaking people of Karachi are mostly either central asian, iranic, Pashtuns (therefore also aryans) or in smaller number from south and central india.


Plus we have Bengalis and African sub-population (2 millions may be) and one million Hazara people.


Yes we have some native indian people such as people of Makran in port city of Gwadar as well as "these dalits who marry chinese for money". But we see them as “outsiders”, discriminate against them and some even consider it offensives to marry these dalit people (just like Ethiopians face such situations in Israel).


The point is the ethnic Pakistanis which form the overwhelming majority of modern have nothing to do with india including everybody. Pakistan are not indians, even when some look like them due to being in the same climate. Majority of indians have nothing to do with us except Kashmiris and some right next to our border with india.



We do have "different bones and facial structure compared to indians EVEN when we are brown". Indians have different Indian looks even when they are fair (very rare). They don’t have that mostly clean “aryan looks” which we do.



P.S. I just wanted to refute this false “indus valley people”. I am replying to @Juggernaut_is_here because he became only Indian in the world to acknowledge that Pakistanis might be “different people”, otherwise we are sick and tired of listening to “haplogroup” based studies to falsely prove india Pakistan same, which as discussed above is NOT about actual genes. Genese can widely different than common ancestor. Genes make us who we are racially not haplogroup. So this this myth of “northern Indian component and south Indian component which is derived from Haplgroup testing is “a myth” and nothing more. Those tests do not tell us about the actual genes. But some partial ancestors wichi are common throughout humanity. Also I won’t reply to the rest of Indians since they can believe whatever they think. Google yourself to and find the truth or deceive yourselves. Pakistan is Pakistan. India is india.

Current People of Pakistan whether they came from Pakistan or afghanistan, we are all ONE race. Have intermarried and are overwhelmingly muslims. That's our identity. We are MUSLIMS. First, second and Last. Islam is OUR RACE. Period.

Also common ancestor or haplogroup does not mean same person as ancesotor but from a related region in indus valley case from people related to iranian farmer's communities. So we don't have single "dady" with indians". Even those "rare" indians who had iranian dady. We had different one. Even thought both may come from various regions of iran. Most of our "Pakistani dadies and momies" came from central asia.

YoungPak,

Please, allow me to thankyou for a concise, very properly structured and rational retort to Gangu falsehood!

You make this OldPak happy and proud.... because, YoungPakistan is owning up to Pakistan on EveryLevel.

PakPositiveNationalism is the way to go!

This is necessary to Crush internal and external dividers.. and put the nail in the coffin of Enthofascism at home.

We are a CivilisationState or Space if you will... a Fertile MeltingPot on every level....

Our strong reaction to this AllooGosht loosers or their GanguFriends comes because they wish to take away OurNationhood .... and we shall NEVER allow that.

Yes, we are poor now... never in our 7.000 years continous history have we been so down... might also be population explosion.. but in general is its rootcause is Khottaism.

I, for one, feel that we are NOT better than anyone... and NO ONE is better than us.

We are Paks, Pak is OurLand ... from Ladakh to Taftan...

The socalled NorthIndia is actually part of OurCivilisationalSpace ... so cann't be considered GanguDaseh... Sikhs being ours....

We need to explore this topic further... as I have said to @Pakhtoon yum there is a consistency of Pakistaniat in OurFood, OurMusic, OurArchitecture and of course, OurLanguages... they transition effortlessly from HighLands to the PakCoasts...

We Pakistanify everything and everyone...

Regarding UrduSpeakingPaks .. I am extremely grateful of your highlighting that part @Starlord @Areesh @StormBreaker @PakSword @Dubious @The Eagle

But most beautiful thing you said about UsPaks is that OurRace is Islam!

@PakSword if you recall I requested you to post the Last Sermon of The Holy Prophet PBUH... all tribes of man are to be found in Pakistan!

I hope MyPaks could clearly see what a Blessing Pakistan is and what OurDestiny is....

@Rafeh genetic concentrations in our 'ethnic' group than the others has to do with geography as well... in OurPlains we have more 'melting' than the isolated areas where life has always been hard... goes with out explanation.

In more ways than one Pakistan is The Heartland and Pearl of Eurasia ... we carry in us all EuriasianBlood.

Once again we are NOT better than anyone and NO ONE is better than us.

We are Paks, Pak is OurLand.

Overall bone structure .. cheekbones and nose bridge are the clear markers... Our 'Tribes' are but variations of the same MeltingPot.

@Rafeh great work and keep at it.

WePaks, WeProtectors, reject this broad daylight robbery of OurCivlisation by the Ganguz. That is why you @Rafeh see the Banner of IndusValley ....

One vital aspect of OurCivilisation is overall Behaviour Patterns ...customs...

OneExample out of many: Every time one wishes a revenge/committment one wipes the face with right hand... signifying 'I swear I am NOT....' ... this is a MongolCustom... been here for more than a 1000 years.

We made the nest in GanguDaesh for 1000years and there was spread of genes as well.. which explains some things... please, notice the flow of GeneticContribution is in one direction.


Anyhow, pleased by your post!

Mangus