Ganesha idols adorn Indian town before Hindu festival

[Samudra Manthan]

We may worship anything by seeing God in it, if we can forget the idol and see God there. We must not project any image upon God. But we may fill any image with that Life which is God. Only forget the image, and you are right enough---for "out of Him comes everything". He is everything. We may worship a picture as God, but not God as the picture. God in the picture is right, but the picture as God is wrong. God in the image is perfectly right. There is no danger there. This is the real worship of God.

This is Swami Vivekananda's view, not the view of all other Hindu scholars. I do not see anything wrong with conflating image with God as long as I also acknowledge other images and other possibilities of God's existence which is what all Hindus do. You say there is nothing in an idol. I say you are wrong. God is not just there in every human being, but in every atom and molecule of the universe and beyond. Hinduism considers the universe itself as a manifestation of God, which means even the so called lifeless rocks, sand, drivel, are manifestation of God, not just live sentient beings. In fact there is nothing non-sentient in the universe. This has been adequately proved by Quantum mechanics.

Given this, idols have as much God stuff in them as there is in a live human being. You are entirely dismissing the efficacy of Bhakti yoga which has had more people realize God than all your self realization techniques when you say idols are only a tool. You seem to be a non-believer in idol worship, yet I do not see how you can claim to be more evolved than us tuccha idol worshippers or what greatness you have achieved so far in life which is so out of reach for us idolators.

Again, none of the argument you presented could shed a light on how or why idol worship is not integral to Hinduism.

Now coming to the point of self realization or getting in union with the Nirguna Brahman, not all souls are ready for dissolution in the infinite Soul and are not seeking it either. If such a situation was to happen, that would be the end of universe defeating the very purpose of creation of universe. Hinduism as philosophy/ideas/religion of this living breathing universe is a part of what is Saguna Brahman and at this level will use terminology and artefacts available to its environment and culture within the confines of what is visible and/or accessible to lead humanity on a way of life compatible with rita/dharma of the universe. To say Hinduism is all about dissolving in the infinite brahman and nothing about living in this universe is plain rubbish. That is trivializing/dismissing the journey, music of life itself, and focusing only on the end goal. Again, something fanatics from Abrahamic religions do who only await for doomsday, resurrection of Christ, or a life in heaven and dismiss everything earthly as unworthy.

 

[Prajapati]

No not really Hinduism has nothing to do with idol worshiping. Showing an idol and teaching about god is way more easy than teaching about god without any support. Thats how the idol worshiping started but at the end of the day it was only a means of visualization or focusing the attention.

The idea was to reach higher and reach the almighty to realize the oneness. That I am not the body and I am the soul.

Idol worshiping is not prohibited in Vedas, but considered as least kind of worshiping. Preference is given to Manasika Pooja which means a person who wish to worship any god, need to assume god's image in his mind and concentrate on that god and worship in his mind Manasika. This method is possible to only those who have a lot of meditation practice, and those people are mostly be saints or Rushi. So all other people who can't achieve this method, they can use alternate way. Idol worshiping is one of the alternate way which can be followed by a common man.

Ways of worshiping will also differ in each Yuga. Difficulty is reduced from one Yuga to another.

In Kruta Yuga or Satya Yuga worshiping is only by Yagna or Yaga and Tapass because gods were coming to earth more often and people were living like few 1000 years. Only those who have ability to do Tapass for many 100 years will be considered for special reward.

In Treta Yuga still Tapass and Yagna or Yaga is the way to worship. But because people live like few 100 years, less than Kruta Yuga, the duration and count also reduced.

In Dwapara Yuga this is again reduced. In Kali Yuga as all we know, no guaranty to live 100 years, among all of it 50-60 years will be spent for career building and settle down. So common people can't follow those difficult methods to worship. So this is again reduced to Nama Smarana. Just chanting gods name is enough. If they have will power then can perform Manasika Pooja for few Seconds.

There are few Shlokas in Vedas which will describe a god. They are called as Dhyana Shlokas. By which one can assume a god with those descriptions.

Most of them can't imagine what they think for very long time, its because of Manasika Chanchalatva, so for those people who can't do Manasika pooja they can follow Idol Worshiping.

reference: Do the Vedas prohibit idol worship? - Hinduism Stack Exchange

I am sorry to say, your post is complete nonsense.

The Hindu Philosophy which you have copy pasted without knowing anything about it, is called Advaita Philosophy.

This is the same philosophy that advocates idol worship of your Ishta devta and defines the Sandhi for doing Panchayatana Puja .

You mentioned preference is given to Manasika Puja which is rubbish. The "Puja" itself is part of Bhakti Yoga and any form of Puja is acceptable as per need and capability and capacity.

There are six types of Puja and all of them is part of Hinduism,

1. Udaka Puja, done while immersed in water.
2. Agni Puja, worshipping god through Fire
3. Aditya Puja, worshipping god through the Sun
4. Manasika Puja, worshipping god in the shrine within yourself
5. Pratima Puja, worshipping through icons/deities
6. Yagnya Puja, worship through Yagna.

Beyond Manasika Puja there is Para Puja which is when your realize god through dhyana and have reached moksha.

Nama Smarna is to help a person find moksha by following Dharma and shorten the cycle of birth-rebirth. Puja OTOH is the help the person realize that goal faster still.

Dhyana shloka is not found in any Veda, its part of the Vedanta and they are used to help the person kick start his Dhyana. The goal being to help him with his Vinyasa. The other way to do it is via Nyasa.


So I suggest you first learn and understand Hinduism before attempting to explain it to others.

Hmmm this is what is the problem with people these days instead of trying to learn and understand another persons views we just jump and tell you are a traitor (In your case calling me a convent educated).

Its not like its my way or the highway. There is nothing there in an idol, I believe that god is there in each and everyone of us and when we realize that truth we become one with the universe.

Worshiping the idol is only the beginning its like teaching a dyslexic kid by showing object examples but in our case the same idol worshiping has become the end also we are not moving forward.

It is because now people are not moving forward idol worshiping was supposed to be the beginning of the spiritual journey but for most of us its the end.

This is some top quality Fart

Considering you do not do "idol worship", how far have your reached in your "spiritual journey" ? ........ talk about HUBRIS.

 

[navtrek]

I am sorry to say, your post is complete nonsense.

The Hindu Philosophy which you have copy pasted without knowing anything about it, is called Advaita Philosophy.

This is the same philosophy that advocates idol worship of your Ishta devta and defines the Sandhi for doing Panchayatana Puja .

You mentioned preference is given to Manasika Puja which is rubbish. The "Puja" itself is part of Bhakti Yoga and any form of Puja is acceptable as per need and capability and capacity.

There are six types of Puja and all of them is part of Hinduism,

1. Udaka Puja, done while immersed in water.
2. Agni Puja, worshipping god through Fire
3. Aditya Puja, worshipping god through the Sun
4. Manasika Puja, worshipping god in the shrine within yourself
5. Pratima Puja, worshipping through icons/deities
6. Yagnya Puja, worship through Yagna.

Beyond Manasika Puja there is Para Puja which is when your realize god through dhyana and have reached moksha.

Nama Smarna is to help a person find moksha by following Dharma and shorten the cycle of birth-rebirth. Puja OTOH is the help the person realize that goal faster still.

Dhyana shloka is not found in any Veda, its part of the Vedanta and they are used to help the person kick start his Dhyana. The goal being to help him with his Vinyasa. The other way to do it is via Nyasa.


So I suggest you first learn and understand Hinduism before attempting to explain it to others.



This is some top quality Fart

Considering you do not do "idol worship", how far have your reached in your "spiritual journey" ? ........ talk about HUBRIS.

When you cant discuss you stoop down to third class cheap shots shows where you stand.

 

[Prajapati]

When you cant discuss you stoop down to third class cheap shots shows where you stand.

LOL. What cheap shots ?

I have only exposed the depth of your ignorance and the strength of your Prejudice.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

When you cant discuss you stoop down to third class cheap shots shows where you stand.

When you can call idolatory degradation and idolators as degraded people, I do not see why people cannot call you traitor. By the way, you never replied to my arguments.

 

[Prajapati]

When you can call idolatory degradation and idolators as degraded people, I do not see why people cannot call you traitor. By the way, you never replied to my arguments.

err.... I never called him a traitor. I just called him a Farter / Flatulist

 

[Samudra Manthan]

err.... I never called him a traitor. I just called him a Farter / Flatulist

No one called him a traitor, but that was the complaint he put up when Sarthak Ganguly called him convent educated and implied he was deracinated.

 

[Samudra Manthan]

Ganesh Chaturti celebrations catching on in Thailand

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=664995140303316

http://www.ganeshinsuan.com/

 

[navtrek]

When you can call idolatory degradation and idolators as degraded people, I do not see why people cannot call you traitor. By the way, you never replied to my arguments.

lol you sound like a mulla to me. And if you look carefully in to my post those highlighted words are not mine its from a different source and I have provided the link also.

 

[haviZsultan]

This shows the differential treatment for Hindu and Muslim. Hindus allowed to worship their Gods and Muslims disallowed to cut up animals as they usually do in Bakra Eid. As I stated earlier the justice for Hindu is far different from that of a Muslim. Explains why Muslims make up a higher proportion of prison inmates. They are arrested despite committing no crime.

Muslims, dalits and tribals make up 53% of all prisoners in India - The Times of India

 

[gslv mk3]

Explains why Muslims make up a higher proportion of prison inmates.

And what do you think Dalits are ? Buddhists ?

 

[Samudra Manthan]

lol you sound like a mulla to me. And if you look carefully in to my post those highlighted words are not mine its from a different source and I have provided the link also.

Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

This is your quote and nothing to do with any link. So what does idol worship due to gradual degradation of thought imply according to your own words? That idolators are not degraded? Strange if that is what you meant, because that is not how one would translate the language. That makes you a Mullah. Should we await a fatwa from you?

 

[navtrek]

This is your quote and nothing to do with any link. So what does idol worship due to gradual degradation of thought imply according to your own words? That idolators are not degraded? Strange if that is what you meant, because that is not how one would translate the language. That makes you a Mullah. Should we await a fatwa from you?

navtrek said: ↑
Nope you have no idea of Hinduism then. Idol worshiping is not an integral part it has become due to a gradual degradation of thought.

Source: Ganesha idols adorn Indian town before Hindu festival | Page 13

If u realize i am talking about "thought"

so i never ment this ---> "When you can call idolatory degradation and idolators as degraded people, I do not see why people cannot call you traitor. By the way, you never replied to my arguments.

Source: Ganesha idols adorn Indian town before Hindu festival | Page 13
"

 

[Samudra Manthan]

If u realize i am talking about "thought"

You mean people with degraded thoughts are not degraded themselves?

 

[navtrek]

You mean people with degraded thoughts are not degraded themselves?

Bro am talking about a thought only thought not talking abt people. You are just trying to put meaning by extrapolating things.

Leave it am not trying to talk abt people am only talking abt thoughts and philosophies no religion and people involved. The talk is completely on a philosophical level no people involved.