Game over

[S-2]

There's a fight going on now in America about using a stimulus package to address long-term infrastruture issues in America, i.e. new roads, repair bridges, public sanitation. One of the arguments against such is that the payoff to such projects is rarely seen quickly.

No kidding. That, though, is why it is an investment. At one time our interstate system was seemingly empty. No longer.

Pakistan can't afford to be asking the same question about its energy needs fifty years hence.

You've got it all but there are tradeoffs that only you guys would understand. OTOH, just Balochistan alone could be a power paradise without extracting one cubic foot of nat'l gas or oil.

Sun, wind, and wave. All three in abundance if harvested by farseeing minds. Biggest enviro impact I can see is that you've a bunch of goofy windmills out in the desert. Beyond that...? Minimal.

Perpetual too. Self-sustaining and a net power exporter maybe. I haven't even addressed the fact that Sindh has wind, sun, and wave as well.

Hell, all of Pakistan has sun and wind. Lots of it.

Anyway, a few meandering thoughts on renewable, low impact power that you seem to have for the asking...

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

There's a fight going on now in America about using a stimulus package to address long-term infrastruture issues in America, i.e. new roads, repair bridges, public sanitation. One of the arguments against such is that the payoff to such projects is rarely seen quickly.

No kidding. That, though, is why it is an investment. At one time our interstate system was seemingly empty. No longer.

Pakistan can't afford to be asking the same question about its energy needs fifty years hence.

You've got it all but there are tradeoffs that only you guys would understand. OTOH, just Balochistan alone could be a power paradise without extracting one cubic foot of nat'l gas or oil.

Sun, wind, and wave. All three in abundance if harvested by farseeing minds. Biggest enviro impact I can see is that you've a bunch of goofy windmills out in the desert. Beyond that...? Minimal.

Perpetual too. Self-sustaining and a net power exporter maybe. I haven't even addressed the fact that Sindh has wind, sun, and wave as well.

Hell, all of Pakistan has sun and wind. Lots of it.

Anyway, a few meandering thoughts on renewable, low impact power that you seem to have for the asking...

Sun and Wind for us and Civil nuclear power for India :India:

 

[S-2]

"Sun and Wind for us and Civil nuclear power for India :India:"

Assuming an equal standard of living between India and Pakistan, India would need to generate no less than five to seven times Pakistan's overall consumable power to hold pace with quality of life based upon nat'l population size.

I'd prefer safe, renewable, sustainable, green energy at every possible turn instead of coal plants or reactors were I Pakistan.

I don't expect it would be possible to sustain the energy needs of 180,000,000 just on that alone but the benefits of integrating these means into the total basket of power products seem undeniable.

Still, your choice of solutions.

Thanks.

 

[Creder]

There's a fight going on now in America about using a stimulus package to address long-term infrastruture issues in America, i.e. new roads, repair bridges, public sanitation. One of the arguments against such is that the payoff to such projects is rarely seen quickly.

No kidding. That, though, is why it is an investment. At one time our interstate system was seemingly empty. No longer.

Pakistan can't afford to be asking the same question about its energy needs fifty years hence.

You've got it all but there are tradeoffs that only you guys would understand. OTOH, just Balochistan alone could be a power paradise without extracting one cubic foot of nat'l gas or oil.

Sun, wind, and wave. All three in abundance if harvested by farseeing minds. Biggest enviro impact I can see is that you've a bunch of goofy windmills out in the desert. Beyond that...? Minimal.

Perpetual too. Self-sustaining and a net power exporter maybe. I haven't even addressed the fact that Sindh has wind, sun, and wave as well.

Hell, all of Pakistan has sun and wind. Lots of it.

Anyway, a few meandering thoughts on renewable, low impact power that you seem to have for the asking...

I heartily agree but they need to get through to those balouchs maybe you wanna lead the delegation ?

 

[S-2]

"I heartily agree but they need to get through to those balouchs maybe you wanna lead the delegation ?"

Two questions-

1.) What's it going to pay?

2.) Are you coming along?

Methinks you just want me dead...

Thanks.

 

[fatman17]

nuke power alone will not be the answer.

 

[All-Green]

We have good wind zones in coastal areas and Baluchistan...we have lots of sun in nearly most of Pakistan.
Targets should be set for each province to achieve a 10% power via smart solutions in short run, 20% in medium run and 30% in long run.
These targets need to be trickled down on district level based on viability.
I am sure the industrial districts would add a lot of value with cities like Sialkot and Faisalabad adding a lot of impetus to such initiatives due to strong presence of industrialists whose business is suffering from the power shortage and its effects.

Baluchistan is ideal because it is a barren land and has no real potential of any form of agriculture...give the province a good revenue and the construction of solar and wind farms would ensure many jobs for years to come...
Sindh is just sitting on the coal reserves...this is unacceptable, they should have moved their A** as soon as this new government had taken charge and given the rights to the province instead of the federal authority...now why they are not moving on despite the assurance of provincial revenue is beyond me...

There are many fast flowing rivers in the extreme north...i remember a small Army base generating enough power for 2-3 neighboring villages by using a turbine placed in an artificial channel of the Neelum river...it was not even in the main flow and yet it provided self sustained electricity for a few thousand people.

All in all these issues will not be resolved in one day.
The damns will take time to build and so will be medium to long term solutions...however solar/wind farms and turbines placed in fast moving rivers and water bodies need to be expedited in every viable district...this shall provide a thriving alternate energy.
The Coal should be medium term solution and they can add atleast a couple of hundred MW within a year or so if they start...however they are not showing any notions of seriousness...

In this coal and hydro energy fiasco the blame is shared by all the parties in the last 2 decades...however the current government has to deliver here and stop blaming others and coming up with excuses, they do not have anytime for such acts now...

 

[fatman17]

Power crisis intensifies across country

Updated at: 1240 PST, Tuesday, January 12, 2010

LAHORE: No sigh of relief for people of Pakistan as the ongoing power impasse has intensified even further, surging the 11 to 18 hours-long laodshedding in many parts of state located in four provinces with no exception whatsoever including the federal capital Islamabad, Geo news reported.

According to details, most of the small factories have been shut down due to unavailability of electricity and low gas pressure.

The thermal powerhouses have testified abject cut in electricity generation after decline in hydel generation, worsening the already torturing electricity shortfall to 4000 megawatt per day, knowledgeable sources said.

PEPCO officials were noticed to have claimed generation of 9000 megawatt of electricity through making operational all Independent Power Producers (IPPs) but merely around 7500 megawatt electricity could be generated through them thus far whereas the overall demand ligers around 11,500 megawatt, sources further said.

Consumers have lodged many complaints against unannounced long hours power cuts, along voicing serious questions of sky-high claims made by federal water and power minister which stated that government would overcome power outages by the end of 2009.

 

[ice_man]

time is running out!lack of rains this winter will also affect & alot of government spending going on WoT will lead to lack of electricity..hence leading to lack of production lack of exports means we will be further pushed down in terms of economy! in layman english! damn time to act now i hope for once our MR.100% decrease there lust for power & money spend just 20%!

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

nuke power alone will not be the answer.

Most cheapest and environmentally friendly way to produce power in three digits MW. If EU and Canada is doing that then it is a answer.

What is the cost of maintaining high tech Solar panels or Wind farms? a lot for a poor country in long run. for two digit MW.

 

[Enigma SIG]

"I heartily agree but they need to get through to those balouchs maybe you wanna lead the delegation ?"

Two questions-

1.) What's it going to pay?

2.) Are you coming along?

Methinks you just want me dead...

Thanks.

me thinks you're underestimating those hellfires, will be thankful if you homed in on some of our politicians as well

 

[S-2]

"me thinks you're underestimating those hellfires, will be thankful if you homed in on some of our politicians as well"

Think we'd need a Presidential Finding to start that fracas up. OTOH, YOU could take a hike over to Khost, meet the new C.I.A. and Jordanian intel chiefs when they get assigned, offer your services, and start feeding them poli-targets which you suggest are OBL, Zawahir, Haqqani, Hekmatyar, Omar, and anybody else you can think would work.

We'll order up a triple-batch of HELLFIRES and get yankee-busy right quick.

Yup! We'd never know the difference either until one day we look up and there's a general sitting in Islamabad where a civilian had been the day before.

Doesn't work for me though. I want a democratic government in Pakistan and I want Pakistanis to work the process of electing responsible leaders. So long as democracy isn't "one man, one vote, one time", the electorate become educated and so do the politicians. End result? Increasingly better and more responsive candidates over time.

I really recommend an American political novel from the 1950s. There were two of note IMV- The Ugly American by Eugene Burdick, as valid today as then for its perspectives on U.S. foreign policy and Advise and Consent by Allen Drury. Written in 1959, it won a pulitzer prize and is, indeed, a superb synopsis of the domestic political process.

 

[Choppers]

Sun and Wind for us and Civil nuclear power for India :India:

PM launches National Solar Mission

Monday, January 11, 2010

Two years after it was conceived, the National Solar Mission, which can address problems of India’s energy security as well as climate change, was on Monday officially launched, with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh giving his full backing tothe ambitious targets to harness solar energy in the next one decade.

The programme, which figures as one of the eight missions in India’s National Action Plan on Climate Change, seeks to generate 20,000 MW of electricity through solar energy by the end of 13th Five-Year Plan in 2022. “I do sincerely believe that the target is doable and that we should work single-mindedly to achieve it as a priority national endeavour,” Manmohan Singh said atthe launch.

“Its success has the potential of transforming India’s energy prospects, and contributing also to national as well as global efforts to combat climate change.”

Another Link:PIB Press Release

 

[fatman17]

The RPP shock

Tuesday, January 19, 2010

In revelations that leave even the stronger-hearted amongst us shocked, the Asian Development Bank, appointed as third-party evaluator by the federal cabinet to assess agreements with Rental Power Projects, has declined to approve them as they would entail a power-rate rise of between 31 and 45 per cent for consumers. In addition Rs420 billion in foreign exchanges would be needed to fund them. The ADP has suggested that only eight, rather than 14 RPPs, be set up. Even this could entail a power-price hike of 24 per cent, in addition to the 30 per cent increase resulting from deals with the IMF. Perhaps all but the most privileged should then begin stocking up on candles, lanterns and hand-held fans. Even without 14 RPPs the anticipated tariff increases are shattering. We can only wonder what government decision-makers are thinking. There seems to be no sense at all in producing electricity no one can afford. But then if we think again – there is sense after all. The approval of the RPPs, producing power at rates even steeper than the IPPs, would undoubtedly help purchase yet more luxurious mansions for certain persons on foreign shores and pour yet more dollars into over-flowing accounts. We all know to whom such riches belong.

It is telling too that even within its typically technical report, the ADP could not restrain itself from making certain insinuations about possible motives behind the RPPs. The ADP remarks expose much of the evil behind such ways of thinking. The comments from its resident chief cast doubts about whether the whole exercise is a ruse to make as much money as possible. Avarice, it seems, has no limits at all. The suspicions that the current power crisis is deliberately created to make us believe we have no option but to opt for the short-term fix offered by the RPPs and that hydel-power projects that would produce power cheaply are simply not conceivable are heightened by this latest expose. The time has truly come to consider how long we can continue to live with decision makers who inflict terrible wrong on all of us.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Pakistan is another zimbabwe in the making. Another 10 years like this and we'll be f'uckin' using lanterns in our houses; that too run on oil and it will be costly.

I'd like to see the US micromanage our finances through the KL bill instead of the bloody inept lot who have been subjugating us to a rule worse that what the british imposed on us since we have got this country.

We need political cleansing, Nazi style...