G7 to impose new sanctions as Kiev warns of 'world war'

[American Eagle]

then so is iraq, kosovo and yugoslavia. You only understand the rule of the gun

The US and her allies worldwide are the world's defense of the rule of law and order.

For example, the Tribal areas of N. Pakistan are a series of self law developed tribal groupings unto themselves and tend to resent and defy central authority. However, as the early US in the late 1700s discovered a loose confederation does not create the more efficient style of democratic government.

Hence the US went from the very loose and confused Articles of Confederation to the US Constition as the better way to organize, tax separately for local and more so for national common security needs, and such.

It is dumb easy for any of us, including me, to be critical, that takes few brains. The test is to find democratic, free will solutions that don't result in fractionated quasi-chaos, which is what Pakistan as a nation struffles to deal with today.

India's diverse ethnicities somehow accept national centralized government well and consequently, with the free enterprise ethic, that involves and includes using credit to both operate governments and businesses. Result is an exploding in a positive sense free world democracy with a growing free enterprise system I for one respect and admire.

Like it or not the US led the effort that ended the war in and over Kosovo, which exists for the better today. Yugoslavia, mentioned and answered by me from a Westerner's perspective several times in recent weeks, broke apart into ethnic centered smaller nations. The US didn't do that...we helped save lives of all by policing in a world sense via the UN and ending the senseless ethnic and religion based bigoted fighting. he

No one is right, no one is wrong there. All helped find today's positive, improving outcomes, but all did not cause the frictions. Those were and are if not policed ages old ethnic and competing religions based, a bad mix.

 

[MarkusS]

Oh, did I?

I simply stated such an overt operation is not pragmatic, which you're taking in the wrong sense. Why not? Cause the rebels are backed by the Russian military.

the russian military is in a pathetic state, if you look at beslan...But thanks that you admit that our soldiers are infact abducted from russia, which is basicly a decleration of war then?

 

[bolo]

Soon Russia turn into Germany of the 1930s

It's never good to back a rat to a corner, especially a nuclear powered one.

 

[MarkusS]

It's never good to back a rat to a corner, especially a nuclear powered one.

this rat is dead. russias economy is on the floor thanks to putin. blind nationalism is the last thing he has

 

[hunter_hunted]

Yeah, let's give him a touch of " Kentucky Blue Grass " Music followed by " Country Blues " songs.

What about this

 

[Span]

The US and her allies worldwide are the world's defense of the rule of law and order.

Through destructive policies and dialogue, instead of constructive engagement. What has been happening in Ukraine could very well be prevented, if the United States had the will to do so.

Which is why BRICS stand by Russia. Not that they approve of Russia's actions, which they may well, but issuing sanctions and isolation of another nations is not going to result in peace, never. Iran, Russia, North Korea, India (solar power industrial norms and pharmaceuticals being the bone of contention).... it's a matter of a few years and the US led western powers would issue sanctions to half of the nations around the globe.

justify Russia's illegal under international law and the UN Charter and then understand that lawlessness is lawlessness.

Oh please, I never justified Russia's actions, but I will now, cause the annexation of Crimea wasn't forced onto it's people. The people chose to join Russia, in a conclusive referendum (which obviously you guys fail to recognize cause you've already taken your stand). In a democracy, the will of the people is the chief source of authority. But here, apparently the United States won't stand for the people, cause firstly, that would mean to bow down to Russia's aggression and secondly, it wouldn't want to lose it's influence.

Had the people of Crimea not chosen themselves to join Russia, I don't think there would be any neutral person who would support such a move.

PS. Just so I don't get misunderstood, I do not justify the so called 'abduction' of the observers. Unfortunate that it happened, but not communicating it to the rebel forces was extremely irresponsible on the part of the authorities in the first place. And secondly, if the claim of there being a spy/spies in the delegation is true, then you have nothing to claim foul play for.

 

[MarkusS]

Through destructive policies and dialogue, instead of constructive engagement. What has been happening in Ukraine could very well be prevented, if the United States had the will to do so.

Which is why BRICS stand by Russia. Not that they approve of Russia's actions, which they may well, but issuing sanctions and isolation of another nations is not going to result in peace, never. Iran, Russia, North Korea, India (solar power industrial norms and pharmaceuticals being the bone of contention).... it's a matter of a few years and the US led western powers would issue sanctions to half of the nations around the globe.



Oh please, I never justified Russia's actions, but I will now, cause the annexation of Crimea wasn't forced onto it's people. The people chose to join Russia, in a conclusive referendum (which obviously you guys fail to recognize cause you've already taken your stand). In a democracy, the will of the people is the chief source of authority. But here, apparently the United States won't stand for the people, cause firstly, that would mean to bow down to Russia's aggression and secondly, it wouldn't want to lose it's influence.

Had the people of Crimea not chosen themselves to join Russia, I don't think there would be any neutral person who would support such a move.

PS. Just so I don't get misunderstood, I do not justify the so called 'abduction' of the observers. Unfortunate that it happened, but not communicating it to the rebel forces was extremely irresponsible on the part of the authorities in the first place. And secondly, if the claim of there being a spy/spies in the delegation is true, then you have nothing to claim foul play for.

I find it interesting that you think germany should accept that this terrorists abduct our military staff. What do you want us to do? Talk with those monsters and do what they want, so they catch the next hostages to push their next goal through?

 

[Span]

I find it interesting that you think germany should accept that this terrorists abduct our military staff.

Never. Exert your diplomatic influence. Your chancellor can do that very well with Putin.

And I wouldn't term the rebels as 'terrorists'. Cause for the escalation of this tension and lawlessness, the west is to be blamed equally as the Russians.

 

[MarkusS]

Never. Exert your diplomatic influence. Your chancellor can do that very well with Putin.

And I wouldn't term the rebels as 'terrorists'. Cause for the escalation of this tension and lawlessness, the west is to be blamed equally as the Russians.

Someone who takes hostages is a terroist. dont you think? athey just showed our 4 men in TV to show they are in good health...pathetic

 

[mike2000]

This is getting more interesting/alarming. It is rather unfortunate to see it go this way(though not surprising), We all know the separatist in eastern Ukraine are supported backed by Russia and Russia surely has its intelligence services operating there. But the question now is how far will Russia go to separate eastern Ukraine from Ukraine. or will it seek to make it an autonomous region of Ukraine or annex it like it did with Crimea. This is the main question now. and the decision rests with Putin alone to Make, since all the players now in Ukraine, be it E.U, U.S, Ukrainian government and the separatists are all just slideshow. Its Putin that will decide how this will end. However , our governments in the west shouldn't have supported the uprisings/toppling of a democratic elected president in the first place. Should have just waited for his mandate to expire and hold new election. This is how democracies should work, else elections becomes useless/unnecessary and we should adopt a one party system if that's the case. I just hope the people of Ukraine can understand that they are now pawns of a geopolitical game going on now in their country between the west and Russia.
I understand Russia is acting the way it is in this case, since its in their sphere of influence, the U.S should learn to give Big powers like Russia and China some space. Else there will always be turmoil/instability in this regions. Overall as i said the U.S by taking two big countries at the same time(Russia in Europe and China in Asia) is making a mistake. It will only make this 2 countries come together more closely than they like, because they know they have to stick together if they want to stand a chance of challenging the west.
As for India, we should also note that despite being a 'democracy' i don't think they can ever be allies with the west, since we simply have too many differences and our interest don't converge at all. The wealth gap is simply too large for us to be allies, since India is still a developing country and have similar interests with china, Russia and the developing world. Though up to now they still have a confused foreign policy IMO. we don't really know were they stand. however they cant play both sides forever, at one point they will have to side with one. Will be interesting to see how things will look like in a decade or two from now.

 

[MarkusS]

This is getting more interesting/alarming. It is rather unfortunate to see it go this way(though not surprising), We all know the separatist in eastern Ukraine are supported backed by Russia and Russia surely has its intelligence services operating there. But the question now is how far will Russia go to separate eastern Ukraine from Ukraine. or will it seek to make it an autonomous region of Ukraine or annex it like it did with Crimea. This is the main question now. and the decision rests with Putin alone to Make, since all the players now in Ukraine, be it E.U, U.S, Ukrainian government and the separatists are all just slideshow. Its Putin that will decide how this will end. However , our governments in the west shouldn't have supported the uprisings/toppling of a democratic elected president in the first place. Should have just waited for his mandate to expire and hold new election. This is how democracies should work, else elections becomes useless/unnecessary and we should adopt a one party system if that's the case. I just hope the people of Ukraine can understand that they are now pawns of a geopolitical game going on now in their country between the west and Russia.
I understand Russia is acting the way it is in this case, since its in their sphere of influence, the U.S should learn to give Big powers like Russia and China some space. Else there will always be turmoil/instability in this regions. Overall as i said the U.S by taking two big countries at the same time(Russia in Europe and China in Asia) is making a mistake. It will only make this 2 countries come together more closely than they like, because they know they have to stick together if they want to stand a chance of challenging the west.
As for India, we should also note that despite being a 'democracy' i don't think they can ever be allies with the west, since we simply have too many differences and our interest don't converge at all. The wealth gap is simply too large for us to be allies, since India is still a developing country and have similar interests with china, Russia and the developing world. Though up to now they still have a confused foreign policy IMO. we don't really know were they stand. however they cant play both sides forever, at one point they will have to side with one. Will be interesting to see how things will look like in a decade or two from now.

You call russia a big power? Russia has less international influence than italy. Their economy is smaller than italy. What we see in russia is a medium regional power with bancrupt economy and rotten military. Russia depends on the west. Its entire elite is western. The people here who claim to love russia so much. I advice you to visit it. Not the western islands of moscow with its starbucks and McDonalds. Go outside. To the desperate masses.

Russia has nothing to offer for humanity. Its just natural to push it aside and remove it

 

[Span]

Though up to now they still have a confused foreign policy IMO

What you call a 'confused' foreign policy is rather, IMHO, a very well worked out policy which ensures our interests, whether economic, political or diplomatic, are not compromised in any manner. Most of the guys I've come across on this forum, including Indians, are second to none in criticizing India's spineless foreign policy, primarily it's non alignment. But what they fail to understand is that as of now, we cannot afford to take a stand, for we have our respective interests both with the west and the east and compromising on either of them could affect us dramatically.

I hope we are not going to find ourselves in a situation where we have to take sides, a professional gets along well with everyone, preserving it's own interests. But even if we do, I doubt we're ever gonna find ourselves opposite to the Russians on a diplomatic stage.

Personally, I'd love to see a Russia-China-India coalition, and as a matter of fact, we might, but that won't affect our ties with the West. (which the latter would obviously take it as affected!)

 

[MarkusS]

What you call a 'confused' foreign policy is rather, IMHO, a very well worked out policy which ensures our interests, whether economic, political or diplomatic, are not compromised in any manner. Most of the guys I've come across on this forum, including Indians, are second to none in criticizing India's spineless foreign policy, primarily it's non alignment. But what they fail to understand is that as of now, we cannot afford to take a stand, for we have our respective interests both with the west and the east and compromising on either of them could affect us dramatically.

I hope we are not going to find ourselves in a situation where we have to take sides, a professional gets along well with everyone, preserving it's own interests. But even if we do, I doubt we're ever gonna find ourselves opposite to the Russians on a diplomatic stage.

Personally, I'd love to see a Russia-China-India coalition, and as a matter of fact, we might, but that won't affect our ties with the West. (which the latter would obviously take it as affected!)

This is a laughble stand. You want stand with barbarism and backwardness and be enemy of the west? If so, why do no indians migrate to russia? Isn´t it nice there? I believe as soon india reaches a certain level of education and living standard you automaticly will completly join our side. There is no other option. You are either with us or against us. You cant have it both ways.

 

[notorious_eagle]

I find it interesting that you think germany should accept that this terrorists abduct our military staff. What do you want us to do? Talk with those monsters and do what they want, so they catch the next hostages to push their next goal through?

Germany cannot do anything except for a diplomatic solution. Germany has neither the will nor the expertise to extract these hostages through a military strike. Bundeswehr is not the Wehrmacht, Russia has pledged that it will use its influence to release these hostages. These hostages will be released, i suggest you wait.

You call russia a big power? Russia has less international influence than italy. Their economy is smaller than italy. What we see in russia is a medium regional power with bancrupt economy and rotten military. Russia depends on the west. Its entire elite is western. The people here who claim to love russia so much. I advice you to visit it. Not the western islands of moscow with its starbucks and McDonalds. Go outside. To the desperate masses.

Russia has nothing to offer for humanity. Its just natural to push it aside and remove it

Russia is a permanent member of the Security Council, its military is the second strongest in the world and it has enough nuclear weapons to turn the whole of Western Europe and United States into ashes. Despite all the hoopla made by European and American leaders, they have failed to make Russia back off. The impotency of the Western leaders against Russia in the Ukraine crisis is proof enough that Russia is a strong international power.

 

[Span]

You want stand with barbarism and backwardness and be enemy of the west?

This is a laughble stand.

I concur.