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Future of Pakistan Bangladesh relations

Still we do not have friendly relation with the tribal people in Chittagong Track. We can not go to that region without fear and concern.

So I can understand why there is a conflict in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria etc. among ethnic people.

On the other hand, USA has all types of people.

In New York people from 250 countries live peacefully.

We need strong democracy, governance and mutual respect.

True, we have failed the tribal people to realize their true potential. Reminds me of a time when I was stuck in the middle of Kaptai Lake because our boat broke down. Certainly shows the level of development in the region.
Like I said in another post, one cannot escape a sense of irony with regards to our history. From my understanding, the separation was due to simple geography. Common sense would dictate so. Language? Jobs? Ethnicity? I don't think it was due to all those save for one community (I think you know which one that is). Surely, not enough to justify separation of a nation. Had we been sharing a border, or within West Pakistan, it is very likely that the situation would have turned out very differently. Albeit, not in the favor of the enemy.

I guess we all have different interpretations of what the separation from Pakistan meant for us. For me, it is our will being our own. Free will is a gift that we should cherish. But I guess my view is in the minority in the midst of all the emotions.
 
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Next Pakistan India war will be all-out last war .

A last war? Oh, I don't think you'd want that. Nobody would.

Both sides will use NWs if you don't want to agree up to your brain .
Now BD joining India !! Aren't you guys signing defence pact , treaty whatever with India ? MOU was singed When your PM was in India ! Isn't it? And current hate against Pakistan in BD people thanks to BD Govt don't you think BDeshi will also demand joining Hand with India ? Best Revenge Time after all !!!!!
Dear forum members in reality BD is looking for a chance to have revenge. I will be happy if you guys stay away and live longer and clean or overtake remaining India , But I am afraid strange and bad times ahead , Who knows which side BD join , one can only guess and mine is India (after looking BD's geopolitical environment) .
I and majority of Pakistani have nothing to do with BD , but I do want a strong BD , may be one day you guys recognise your real enemy and come out ethnicity complex. I will pray for that day.

I have a mind actually.

Yes, there is a defense pact. But it is largely limited to current threats like terrorism. The fight against terrorism is important. At least, it'd make us look legitimate.

Bangladesh participating in a war against Pakistan over Kashmir would make no sense due to logistical reasons, political and even ideological. The mullahs of Bangladesh have muscle even with the largest Islamist party out of the political equation. If they see our troops fighting a Muslim country and somehow suppressing the Muslim population of Kashmir, they'll hit the streets and cause trouble which would erode regime security. Muslim Bangladeshis are largely sympathetic to the plight of Kashmir. The Hindus of Bangladesh on the other hand may have a different opinion. But it doesn't matter.

Now, the only thing you guys may need to worry about is your image. They will try to attack your image, damage it. They will be making a 71' documentary partly with that in mind. It is unfortunate that people with power try to control history as if it is their own. Yes, to the victor goes the spoils, but this is too much. Revenge is for petty minds.

Fortunately, your country is in a geographically superior position. And that makes you important. India and Bangladesh do not posses that. One cannot control geography.

Does the current regime represent the majority of Bangladeshis? Um...the answer is no. Is there an establishment outside the government (or any political party for that matter) which seeks to undermine Pakistan and overestimate Bangladesh's history? Yes. Remember that professor I mentioned some time back here? That is them. But don't worry, they are good folks with whom you can have a nice time with. I'm pretty sure that they won't support participating in a war with Pakistan. They are not warmongers. In fact, they have little or close to no understanding of the complexity and psychology of war.

My advise is to focus on your strengths, build upon them and maintain good relations and understanding with the US and China. Do some lobbying in the US and some other countries even with Trump in power (coming to think of it, he could be beneficial). Do those, and Bangladesh would be a distant thought at best. May I dare say even India would be no match with all their economic and soft power muscle they have.
 
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You have hostile India a unfriendly Iran a problematic Afghanistan now you want another hostile country to the list. Can you clarify what hostility we did with you in last 45 years?

some Pakistanis are still sore about 1971. they won't acknowledge it

This is a forum, please leave your Indo-Pak baggage in another thread. India is in all ways measurable far more important to Bangladesh than Pakistan. As a land it's an enclave within Indian borders and the sea. It's trade is substantial with India, although in my estimation it ought to be higher for mutual benefit, but I've no doubt it will grow. Strategically, Pakistan has little or nothing to offer BD, India has everything to offer BD. And Pakistan can also never be a real threat to BD hypothetically, whereas India can, hypothetically. It therefore stands to reason that on a diplomatic level, on Indo-Pak issues, BD should remain neutral where possible, and side with India publicly where it may reap the rewards of Indian approval of anti-Pakistan sentiments and especially where its own history with Pakistan comes in to play, although that has its own motivations because of wrongs done before BD became a nation. Hasina's hysterics, though a little pathetic, aren't without reason, she stand to gain something even if from our perspective it seems petty.

Pakistan did the same with China and Taiwan, China means everything to us, and Taiwan means little or nothing. We cut diplomatic ties with Taiwan, not because the average Pakistani knows or cares about the history of Taiwan, but because we stand to gain something in supporting the Chinese and their position on the matter.

You should take a moment and read what I'm actually saying here, it's quite straight forward and you seem to be reading it wrong. And on Afghanistan, our history with them is older than you know, you can believe me on that, every time I discuss this with an Indian, with due respect, they always lack any knowledge on the matter besides an Indian perspective limited to the last twenty or thirty years.

What you say would make logical sense. Except there are some actions by the Pakistani state to the contrary.

Except Pakistan has made a lot of effort to court right wingers and anti-India elements in Bangladeshi politics
Take Pakistan's lack of response towards Myanmar's junta slaughter of Muslims. Any logical explanation ??

Only logical explanation is that some people in Rawalpindi fancy opening another front on India's East
 
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A last war? Oh, I don't think you'd want that. Nobody would.



I have a mind actually.

Yes, there is a defense pact. But it is largely limited to current threats like terrorism. The fight against terrorism is important. At least, it'd make us look legitimate.

Bangladesh participating in a war against Pakistan over Kashmir would make no sense due to logistical reasons, political and even ideological. The mullahs of Bangladesh have muscle even with the largest Islamist party out of the political equation. If they see our troops fighting a Muslim country and somehow suppressing the Muslim population of Kashmir, they'll hit the streets and cause trouble which would erode regime security. Muslim Bangladeshis are largely sympathetic to the plight of Kashmir. The Hindus of Bangladesh on the other hand may have a different opinion. But it doesn't matter.

Now, the only thing you guys may need to worry about is your image. They will try to attack your image, damage it. They will be making a 71' documentary partly with that in mind. It is unfortunate that people with power try to control history as if it is their own. Yes, to the victor goes the spoils, but this is too much. Revenge is for petty minds.

Fortunately, your country is in a geographically superior position. And that makes you important. India and Bangladesh do not posses that. One cannot control geography.

Does the current regime represent the majority of Bangladeshis? Um...the answer is no. Is there an establishment outside the government (or any political party for that matter) which seeks to undermine Pakistan and overestimate Bangladesh's history? Yes. Remember that professor I mentioned some time back here? That is them. But don't worry, they are good folks with whom you can have a nice time with. I'm pretty sure that they won't support participating in a war with Pakistan. They are not warmongers. In fact, they have little or close to no understanding of the complexity and psychology of war.

My advise is to focus on your strengths, build upon them and maintain good relations and understanding with the US and China. Do some lobbying in the US and some other countries even with Trump in power (coming to think of it, he could be beneficial). Do those, and Bangladesh would be a distant thought at best. May I dare say even India would be no match with all their economic and soft power muscle they have.

Fantastic post.
 
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Before the Pakistani army launched operation searchlight and started the genoicde, the Bengali nationalists were killing West Pakistanis, don't play victim just because you couldn't do genocide as good as we could, we both killed innocent people and since neither of us will apologise, it's time you guys move on...We have had some of the greatest soldiers in history...we have nuclear triad...don't call our troops cowardice.


A partnership of HuffPost and the
Pakistan’s Insistence on Denial

By Aparna Pande

n-PAKISTAN-628x314.jpg

GEOFFREY CLIFFORD VIA GETTY IMAGES


Pakistan has denied any wrong doing and committing any war crimes during the civil war of 1971 that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh from erstwhile East Pakistan. This doubling down on denial of an almost universally acknowledged fact came amidst a war of words between Islamabad and Dhaka that began with Pakistan’s Foreign Office expressing “deep concern” and anguish” over the “unfortunate executions“ of two Bangladeshi politicians accused of torture, rape and genocide during the civil war of 1971. Ali Ahsan Mohammad Mujahid of the Jamaat e Islami and Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury of the Bangladesh National Party (BNP) had been convicted by War Crimes Courts set up by the Bangladesh government.

The legitimacy of the process that resulted in conviction and execution of Pakistani collaborators has been subject of some dispute and controversy but the fact of Pakistani forces terrorizing Bengali civilians is almost undisputed. Pakistan insists on denying war crimes against the people of Bangladesh and has reacted adversely and openly to executions in Bangladesh tied to the 1971 genocide.

In December 2013 when Bangladesh executed Abdul Qader Molla, a man accused of targeting Bangladeshi intellectuals on the eve of Pakistan’s surrender to Indian and Bangladeshi forces, Pakistan’s foreign office issued a condemnatory statement. Pakistan’s National Assembly and the provincial assembly of the largest province, Punjab, both adopted resolutions condemning Molla’s execution. This was followed by protests in Sindh organized by Pakistan’s Jamaat e Islami and Jamaat ud Dawa (designated a terrorist groups internationally).

This time, too, the Jamaat e Islami has held protest rallies in Lahore against the Bangladeshi decision.

The 1971 civil war resulted not only in the loss of Pakistan’s eastern wing, it was also a blow to the country’s prestige. Bangladesh was from 1947 to 1971 the more populous but impoverished half of Pakistan. Islamabad has never honestly or seriously examined why the majority of its population chose to secede from the country with the help of India, which is often described by Pakistan’s leaders as their country’s arch-enemy.

Most independent analysts agree that around 1.5-2 million people were killed during the civil war and Pakistani-sponsored genocide of 1971. While Pakistan formally recognized Bangladesh in 1974 it never issued an official apology for its actions during the war. The 1972 Hamoodur Rehman commission report, constituted by the Pakistani government, accused the Pakistan army of senseless and wanton arson, killings and rape but the report was buried and found light of day decades later, only after being leaked to an Indian newspaper.

The closest any Pakistan leader came to issuing an apology to Bangladesh was former Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf. On an official visit to Dhaka in July 2002 Musharraf visited a war memorial at Savar, near the capital, Dhaka, and wrote in the visitors’ book: “Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed.”

The recent statement by Pakistan’s foreign office, however, demonstrates that instead of an acknowledgement of what happened in 1971 there is still an insistence upon refusal to accept historic facts. Pakistan’s military, dominated by ethnic Punjabis, supports a national narrative based on denial and false pride. In that narrative Pakistan is always a victim of conspiracies of anti-Islamic forces, never the perpetrator of any wrongdoing. But without acknowledging the blunders of the past, it is difficult that Pakistan will ever be able to move forward.

An inability to reconcile errors and genocide of the past is a sure recipe to making similar blunders in the future. Right now the picture inside Pakistan is not pretty. Every province is facing insurgency or conflict of one kind or another. For Pakistan’s Punjabi-led military, putting down ethnic rights movements takes priority over fighting Islamist terrorists it has nurtured for regional influence.

In Pakistan’s financial capital and largest city, Karachi, the military is targeting the secular political party MQM (Muttahida Qaumi Mahaz), whom it accuses of engaging in criminal activities. The pursuit of the MQM detracts the army from locating elements of the Taliban, both Afghan and Pakistani, who seek a safe haven in that city. The core attitude of Pakistan’s military, it seems, has changed little since Punjabi soldier went on rampage against Bengalis after the latter voted in 1970 for a political party whose worldview was unacceptable to West Pakistan’s ruling elite.

Punjab, now Pakistan’s most populous province with 53 percent of the country’s population, provides 72 percent of Pakistan’s army. It also is the home to the majority of foot soldiers for Jihadi groups wreaking havoc on Pakistan and its neighbors. That includes sectarian terrorists, Afghan Taliban and anti-India militants including groups like the one that was responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

The Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan and its allied jihadi groups have ensured that Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and the FATA region (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) are not secure or stable from Pakistan’s perspective. Pakistan also faces an insurgency in Balochistan since the 1970s that has worsened in recent years with the ‘kill and dump’ policy adopted by Pakistan’s military-intelligence establishment.

Not only is Pakistan being torn apart by these insurgencies, but its citizens are participating in insurgencies in other parts of the world. Pakistanis have been members of Al Qaeda and prominent leaders of that movement Khalid Shaikh Mohammad and Ramzi Yusuf considered Pakistan their home. That Osama bin Laden was found in a Pakistani garrisons city speaks volumes of the influence of global terrorists in that country.

These days, Pakistanis have been killed fighting on both sides of the war in Syria. Pakistani Sunnis have volunteered to fight for both the Al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra Front as well as the ISIS in Syria while Pakistani Shias seem to be fighting as part of the Pakistani Shi’a militia Zainabiyoun Brigade.

Under such circumstances, Pakistan should be focusing on its internal challenges. Instead it is increasingly adopting a hyper nationalist stance against India and now Bangladesh. Afghanistan has been unhappy for years with Pakistan’s support for the Taliban. Pakistan is becoming increasingly isolated in South Asia because it is insisting on denying facts that its neighbors know to be reality.

According to scholar and former Pakistani Ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, the roots of this lie in Pakistan’s desire for parity with India. Pakistani leaders are obsessed with matching, or surpassing, India’s stature, prestige and military capability. But Pakistan’s denial of harsh realities and insistence on its ‘we do no wrong’ rhetoric has worsened its ties not only with India but its other neighbors as well.

Pakistan’s ties with Afghanistan have deteriorated over Pakistan’s security establishment insistence on following its age-old policy of supporting jihadi groups in Afghanistan. Kabul insists that Islamabad-Rawalpindi is responsible for the lack of stability and security within Afghanistan whereas Pakistan continues to deny that it is involved. As a result Pakistan’s economy and its people are suffering because unless Pakistan allows transit to India, Kabul is refusing to allow Islamabad trade with Central Asia.

Even Iran, which was historically close to Pakistan, has turned hostile. Every few months,there are incidents reported of firing by Iranian border guards to “target terrorists” trying to enter Iran from Pakistan. Iran asserts- but Pakistan denies - that Pakistan is allowing Balochistan to be used as safe havens by Sunni jihadi groups like Jundullah that operate inside Iran.

The policy of encouraging Pakistani citizens to join jihadi militias after being trained by the army dates back to the 1971 civil war. The ‘war criminals’ currently on trial in Bangladesh were religious fanatics trained to augment Pakistan’s military capability against its disaffected Bengali population. Now, Jihadis are expected to help the Pakistan army maintain control on Karachi and Balochistan while helping Pakistan extend its influence in Afghanistan and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.

The insistence on denying that Pakistan committed atrocities during the Bangladesh war of 1971 reflects the refusal of the Pakistani elite to accept the folly of using jihad as an element of state policy. Denials notwithstanding, Pakistan’s army attempted genocide in Bangladesh and still failed to hold on to its eastern wing. Instead of benefitting Pakistan, its current Jihadi policy will only radicalize its society further and increase stress along its various faultlines.

Follow Aparna Pande on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Aparna_Pande

Aparna Pande Director, India Initiative, Hudson Institute
 
.

A partnership of HuffPost and the
Pakistan’s Insistence on Denial

By Aparna Pande

n-PAKISTAN-628x314.jpg

GEOFFREY CLIFFORD VIA GETTY IMAGES


Pakistan has denied any wrong doing and committing any war crimes during the civil war of 1971 that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh from erstwhile East Pakistan. This doubling down on denial of an almost universally acknowledged fact came amidst a war of words between Islamabad and Dhaka that began with Pakistan’s Foreign Office expressing “deep concern” and anguish” over the “unfortunate executions“ of two Bangladeshi politicians accused of torture, rape and genocide during the civil war of 1971. Ali Ahsan Mohammad Mujahid of the Jamaat e Islami and Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury of the Bangladesh National Party (BNP) had been convicted by War Crimes Courts set up by the Bangladesh government.

The legitimacy of the process that resulted in conviction and execution of Pakistani collaborators has been subject of some dispute and controversy but the fact of Pakistani forces terrorizing Bengali civilians is almost undisputed. Pakistan insists on denying war crimes against the people of Bangladesh and has reacted adversely and openly to executions in Bangladesh tied to the 1971 genocide.

In December 2013 when Bangladesh executed Abdul Qader Molla, a man accused of targeting Bangladeshi intellectuals on the eve of Pakistan’s surrender to Indian and Bangladeshi forces, Pakistan’s foreign office issued a condemnatory statement. Pakistan’s National Assembly and the provincial assembly of the largest province, Punjab, both adopted resolutions condemning Molla’s execution. This was followed by protests in Sindh organized by Pakistan’s Jamaat e Islami and Jamaat ud Dawa (designated a terrorist groups internationally).

This time, too, the Jamaat e Islami has held protest rallies in Lahore against the Bangladeshi decision.

The 1971 civil war resulted not only in the loss of Pakistan’s eastern wing, it was also a blow to the country’s prestige. Bangladesh was from 1947 to 1971 the more populous but impoverished half of Pakistan. Islamabad has never honestly or seriously examined why the majority of its population chose to secede from the country with the help of India, which is often described by Pakistan’s leaders as their country’s arch-enemy.

Most independent analysts agree that around 1.5-2 million people were killed during the civil war and Pakistani-sponsored genocide of 1971. While Pakistan formally recognized Bangladesh in 1974 it never issued an official apology for its actions during the war. The 1972 Hamoodur Rehman commission report, constituted by the Pakistani government, accused the Pakistan army of senseless and wanton arson, killings and rape but the report was buried and found light of day decades later, only after being leaked to an Indian newspaper.

The closest any Pakistan leader came to issuing an apology to Bangladesh was former Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf. On an official visit to Dhaka in July 2002 Musharraf visited a war memorial at Savar, near the capital, Dhaka, and wrote in the visitors’ book: “Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed.”

The recent statement by Pakistan’s foreign office, however, demonstrates that instead of an acknowledgement of what happened in 1971 there is still an insistence upon refusal to accept historic facts. Pakistan’s military, dominated by ethnic Punjabis, supports a national narrative based on denial and false pride. In that narrative Pakistan is always a victim of conspiracies of anti-Islamic forces, never the perpetrator of any wrongdoing. But without acknowledging the blunders of the past, it is difficult that Pakistan will ever be able to move forward.

An inability to reconcile errors and genocide of the past is a sure recipe to making similar blunders in the future. Right now the picture inside Pakistan is not pretty. Every province is facing insurgency or conflict of one kind or another. For Pakistan’s Punjabi-led military, putting down ethnic rights movements takes priority over fighting Islamist terrorists it has nurtured for regional influence.

In Pakistan’s financial capital and largest city, Karachi, the military is targeting the secular political party MQM (Muttahida Qaumi Mahaz), whom it accuses of engaging in criminal activities. The pursuit of the MQM detracts the army from locating elements of the Taliban, both Afghan and Pakistani, who seek a safe haven in that city. The core attitude of Pakistan’s military, it seems, has changed little since Punjabi soldier went on rampage against Bengalis after the latter voted in 1970 for a political party whose worldview was unacceptable to West Pakistan’s ruling elite.

Punjab, now Pakistan’s most populous province with 53 percent of the country’s population, provides 72 percent of Pakistan’s army. It also is the home to the majority of foot soldiers for Jihadi groups wreaking havoc on Pakistan and its neighbors. That includes sectarian terrorists, Afghan Taliban and anti-India militants including groups like the one that was responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

The Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan and its allied jihadi groups have ensured that Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and the FATA region (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) are not secure or stable from Pakistan’s perspective. Pakistan also faces an insurgency in Balochistan since the 1970s that has worsened in recent years with the ‘kill and dump’ policy adopted by Pakistan’s military-intelligence establishment.

Not only is Pakistan being torn apart by these insurgencies, but its citizens are participating in insurgencies in other parts of the world. Pakistanis have been members of Al Qaeda and prominent leaders of that movement Khalid Shaikh Mohammad and Ramzi Yusuf considered Pakistan their home. That Osama bin Laden was found in a Pakistani garrisons city speaks volumes of the influence of global terrorists in that country.

These days, Pakistanis have been killed fighting on both sides of the war in Syria. Pakistani Sunnis have volunteered to fight for both the Al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra Front as well as the ISIS in Syria while Pakistani Shias seem to be fighting as part of the Pakistani Shi’a militia Zainabiyoun Brigade.

Under such circumstances, Pakistan should be focusing on its internal challenges. Instead it is increasingly adopting a hyper nationalist stance against India and now Bangladesh. Afghanistan has been unhappy for years with Pakistan’s support for the Taliban. Pakistan is becoming increasingly isolated in South Asia because it is insisting on denying facts that its neighbors know to be reality.

According to scholar and former Pakistani Ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, the roots of this lie in Pakistan’s desire for parity with India. Pakistani leaders are obsessed with matching, or surpassing, India’s stature, prestige and military capability. But Pakistan’s denial of harsh realities and insistence on its ‘we do no wrong’ rhetoric has worsened its ties not only with India but its other neighbors as well.

Pakistan’s ties with Afghanistan have deteriorated over Pakistan’s security establishment insistence on following its age-old policy of supporting jihadi groups in Afghanistan. Kabul insists that Islamabad-Rawalpindi is responsible for the lack of stability and security within Afghanistan whereas Pakistan continues to deny that it is involved. As a result Pakistan’s economy and its people are suffering because unless Pakistan allows transit to India, Kabul is refusing to allow Islamabad trade with Central Asia.

Even Iran, which was historically close to Pakistan, has turned hostile. Every few months,there are incidents reported of firing by Iranian border guards to “target terrorists” trying to enter Iran from Pakistan. Iran asserts- but Pakistan denies - that Pakistan is allowing Balochistan to be used as safe havens by Sunni jihadi groups like Jundullah that operate inside Iran.

The policy of encouraging Pakistani citizens to join jihadi militias after being trained by the army dates back to the 1971 civil war. The ‘war criminals’ currently on trial in Bangladesh were religious fanatics trained to augment Pakistan’s military capability against its disaffected Bengali population. Now, Jihadis are expected to help the Pakistan army maintain control on Karachi and Balochistan while helping Pakistan extend its influence in Afghanistan and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.

The insistence on denying that Pakistan committed atrocities during the Bangladesh war of 1971 reflects the refusal of the Pakistani elite to accept the folly of using jihad as an element of state policy. Denials notwithstanding, Pakistan’s army attempted genocide in Bangladesh and still failed to hold on to its eastern wing. Instead of benefitting Pakistan, its current Jihadi policy will only radicalize its society further and increase stress along its various faultlines.

Follow Aparna Pande on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Aparna_Pande

Aparna Pande Director, India Initiative, Hudson Institute
Written by a Hindustani, that's all anyone needs to know about it.
 
.

A partnership of HuffPost and the
Pakistan’s Insistence on Denial

By Aparna Pande

n-PAKISTAN-628x314.jpg

GEOFFREY CLIFFORD VIA GETTY IMAGES


Pakistan has denied any wrong doing and committing any war crimes during the civil war of 1971 that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh from erstwhile East Pakistan. This doubling down on denial of an almost universally acknowledged fact came amidst a war of words between Islamabad and Dhaka that began with Pakistan’s Foreign Office expressing “deep concern” and anguish” over the “unfortunate executions“ of two Bangladeshi politicians accused of torture, rape and genocide during the civil war of 1971. Ali Ahsan Mohammad Mujahid of the Jamaat e Islami and Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury of the Bangladesh National Party (BNP) had been convicted by War Crimes Courts set up by the Bangladesh government.

The legitimacy of the process that resulted in conviction and execution of Pakistani collaborators has been subject of some dispute and controversy but the fact of Pakistani forces terrorizing Bengali civilians is almost undisputed. Pakistan insists on denying war crimes against the people of Bangladesh and has reacted adversely and openly to executions in Bangladesh tied to the 1971 genocide.

In December 2013 when Bangladesh executed Abdul Qader Molla, a man accused of targeting Bangladeshi intellectuals on the eve of Pakistan’s surrender to Indian and Bangladeshi forces, Pakistan’s foreign office issued a condemnatory statement. Pakistan’s National Assembly and the provincial assembly of the largest province, Punjab, both adopted resolutions condemning Molla’s execution. This was followed by protests in Sindh organized by Pakistan’s Jamaat e Islami and Jamaat ud Dawa (designated a terrorist groups internationally).

This time, too, the Jamaat e Islami has held protest rallies in Lahore against the Bangladeshi decision.

The 1971 civil war resulted not only in the loss of Pakistan’s eastern wing, it was also a blow to the country’s prestige. Bangladesh was from 1947 to 1971 the more populous but impoverished half of Pakistan. Islamabad has never honestly or seriously examined why the majority of its population chose to secede from the country with the help of India, which is often described by Pakistan’s leaders as their country’s arch-enemy.

Most independent analysts agree that around 1.5-2 million people were killed during the civil war and Pakistani-sponsored genocide of 1971. While Pakistan formally recognized Bangladesh in 1974 it never issued an official apology for its actions during the war. The 1972 Hamoodur Rehman commission report, constituted by the Pakistani government, accused the Pakistan army of senseless and wanton arson, killings and rape but the report was buried and found light of day decades later, only after being leaked to an Indian newspaper.

The closest any Pakistan leader came to issuing an apology to Bangladesh was former Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf. On an official visit to Dhaka in July 2002 Musharraf visited a war memorial at Savar, near the capital, Dhaka, and wrote in the visitors’ book: “Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed.”

The recent statement by Pakistan’s foreign office, however, demonstrates that instead of an acknowledgement of what happened in 1971 there is still an insistence upon refusal to accept historic facts. Pakistan’s military, dominated by ethnic Punjabis, supports a national narrative based on denial and false pride. In that narrative Pakistan is always a victim of conspiracies of anti-Islamic forces, never the perpetrator of any wrongdoing. But without acknowledging the blunders of the past, it is difficult that Pakistan will ever be able to move forward.

An inability to reconcile errors and genocide of the past is a sure recipe to making similar blunders in the future. Right now the picture inside Pakistan is not pretty. Every province is facing insurgency or conflict of one kind or another. For Pakistan’s Punjabi-led military, putting down ethnic rights movements takes priority over fighting Islamist terrorists it has nurtured for regional influence.

In Pakistan’s financial capital and largest city, Karachi, the military is targeting the secular political party MQM (Muttahida Qaumi Mahaz), whom it accuses of engaging in criminal activities. The pursuit of the MQM detracts the army from locating elements of the Taliban, both Afghan and Pakistani, who seek a safe haven in that city. The core attitude of Pakistan’s military, it seems, has changed little since Punjabi soldier went on rampage against Bengalis after the latter voted in 1970 for a political party whose worldview was unacceptable to West Pakistan’s ruling elite.

Punjab, now Pakistan’s most populous province with 53 percent of the country’s population, provides 72 percent of Pakistan’s army. It also is the home to the majority of foot soldiers for Jihadi groups wreaking havoc on Pakistan and its neighbors. That includes sectarian terrorists, Afghan Taliban and anti-India militants including groups like the one that was responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

The Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan and its allied jihadi groups have ensured that Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and the FATA region (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) are not secure or stable from Pakistan’s perspective. Pakistan also faces an insurgency in Balochistan since the 1970s that has worsened in recent years with the ‘kill and dump’ policy adopted by Pakistan’s military-intelligence establishment.

Not only is Pakistan being torn apart by these insurgencies, but its citizens are participating in insurgencies in other parts of the world. Pakistanis have been members of Al Qaeda and prominent leaders of that movement Khalid Shaikh Mohammad and Ramzi Yusuf considered Pakistan their home. That Osama bin Laden was found in a Pakistani garrisons city speaks volumes of the influence of global terrorists in that country.

These days, Pakistanis have been killed fighting on both sides of the war in Syria. Pakistani Sunnis have volunteered to fight for both the Al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra Front as well as the ISIS in Syria while Pakistani Shias seem to be fighting as part of the Pakistani Shi’a militia Zainabiyoun Brigade.

Under such circumstances, Pakistan should be focusing on its internal challenges. Instead it is increasingly adopting a hyper nationalist stance against India and now Bangladesh. Afghanistan has been unhappy for years with Pakistan’s support for the Taliban. Pakistan is becoming increasingly isolated in South Asia because it is insisting on denying facts that its neighbors know to be reality.

According to scholar and former Pakistani Ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, the roots of this lie in Pakistan’s desire for parity with India. Pakistani leaders are obsessed with matching, or surpassing, India’s stature, prestige and military capability. But Pakistan’s denial of harsh realities and insistence on its ‘we do no wrong’ rhetoric has worsened its ties not only with India but its other neighbors as well.

Pakistan’s ties with Afghanistan have deteriorated over Pakistan’s security establishment insistence on following its age-old policy of supporting jihadi groups in Afghanistan. Kabul insists that Islamabad-Rawalpindi is responsible for the lack of stability and security within Afghanistan whereas Pakistan continues to deny that it is involved. As a result Pakistan’s economy and its people are suffering because unless Pakistan allows transit to India, Kabul is refusing to allow Islamabad trade with Central Asia.

Even Iran, which was historically close to Pakistan, has turned hostile. Every few months,there are incidents reported of firing by Iranian border guards to “target terrorists” trying to enter Iran from Pakistan. Iran asserts- but Pakistan denies - that Pakistan is allowing Balochistan to be used as safe havens by Sunni jihadi groups like Jundullah that operate inside Iran.

The policy of encouraging Pakistani citizens to join jihadi militias after being trained by the army dates back to the 1971 civil war. The ‘war criminals’ currently on trial in Bangladesh were religious fanatics trained to augment Pakistan’s military capability against its disaffected Bengali population. Now, Jihadis are expected to help the Pakistan army maintain control on Karachi and Balochistan while helping Pakistan extend its influence in Afghanistan and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.

The insistence on denying that Pakistan committed atrocities during the Bangladesh war of 1971 reflects the refusal of the Pakistani elite to accept the folly of using jihad as an element of state policy. Denials notwithstanding, Pakistan’s army attempted genocide in Bangladesh and still failed to hold on to its eastern wing. Instead of benefitting Pakistan, its current Jihadi policy will only radicalize its society further and increase stress along its various faultlines.

Follow Aparna Pande on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Aparna_Pande

Aparna Pande Director, India Initiative, Hudson Institute

Haven't seen you around for a while. Welcome back!
 
.

A partnership of HuffPost and the
Pakistan’s Insistence on Denial

By Aparna Pande

n-PAKISTAN-628x314.jpg

GEOFFREY CLIFFORD VIA GETTY IMAGES


Pakistan has denied any wrong doing and committing any war crimes during the civil war of 1971 that resulted in the creation of Bangladesh from erstwhile East Pakistan. This doubling down on denial of an almost universally acknowledged fact came amidst a war of words between Islamabad and Dhaka that began with Pakistan’s Foreign Office expressing “deep concern” and anguish” over the “unfortunate executions“ of two Bangladeshi politicians accused of torture, rape and genocide during the civil war of 1971. Ali Ahsan Mohammad Mujahid of the Jamaat e Islami and Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury of the Bangladesh National Party (BNP) had been convicted by War Crimes Courts set up by the Bangladesh government.

The legitimacy of the process that resulted in conviction and execution of Pakistani collaborators has been subject of some dispute and controversy but the fact of Pakistani forces terrorizing Bengali civilians is almost undisputed. Pakistan insists on denying war crimes against the people of Bangladesh and has reacted adversely and openly to executions in Bangladesh tied to the 1971 genocide.

In December 2013 when Bangladesh executed Abdul Qader Molla, a man accused of targeting Bangladeshi intellectuals on the eve of Pakistan’s surrender to Indian and Bangladeshi forces, Pakistan’s foreign office issued a condemnatory statement. Pakistan’s National Assembly and the provincial assembly of the largest province, Punjab, both adopted resolutions condemning Molla’s execution. This was followed by protests in Sindh organized by Pakistan’s Jamaat e Islami and Jamaat ud Dawa (designated a terrorist groups internationally).

This time, too, the Jamaat e Islami has held protest rallies in Lahore against the Bangladeshi decision.

The 1971 civil war resulted not only in the loss of Pakistan’s eastern wing, it was also a blow to the country’s prestige. Bangladesh was from 1947 to 1971 the more populous but impoverished half of Pakistan. Islamabad has never honestly or seriously examined why the majority of its population chose to secede from the country with the help of India, which is often described by Pakistan’s leaders as their country’s arch-enemy.

Most independent analysts agree that around 1.5-2 million people were killed during the civil war and Pakistani-sponsored genocide of 1971. While Pakistan formally recognized Bangladesh in 1974 it never issued an official apology for its actions during the war. The 1972 Hamoodur Rehman commission report, constituted by the Pakistani government, accused the Pakistan army of senseless and wanton arson, killings and rape but the report was buried and found light of day decades later, only after being leaked to an Indian newspaper.

The closest any Pakistan leader came to issuing an apology to Bangladesh was former Pakistani military ruler General Pervez Musharraf. On an official visit to Dhaka in July 2002 Musharraf visited a war memorial at Savar, near the capital, Dhaka, and wrote in the visitors’ book: “Your brothers and sisters in Pakistan share the pain of the events in 1971. The excesses committed during the unfortunate period are regretted. Let us bury the past in the spirit of magnanimity. Let not the light of the future be dimmed.”

The recent statement by Pakistan’s foreign office, however, demonstrates that instead of an acknowledgement of what happened in 1971 there is still an insistence upon refusal to accept historic facts. Pakistan’s military, dominated by ethnic Punjabis, supports a national narrative based on denial and false pride. In that narrative Pakistan is always a victim of conspiracies of anti-Islamic forces, never the perpetrator of any wrongdoing. But without acknowledging the blunders of the past, it is difficult that Pakistan will ever be able to move forward.

An inability to reconcile errors and genocide of the past is a sure recipe to making similar blunders in the future. Right now the picture inside Pakistan is not pretty. Every province is facing insurgency or conflict of one kind or another. For Pakistan’s Punjabi-led military, putting down ethnic rights movements takes priority over fighting Islamist terrorists it has nurtured for regional influence.

In Pakistan’s financial capital and largest city, Karachi, the military is targeting the secular political party MQM (Muttahida Qaumi Mahaz), whom it accuses of engaging in criminal activities. The pursuit of the MQM detracts the army from locating elements of the Taliban, both Afghan and Pakistani, who seek a safe haven in that city. The core attitude of Pakistan’s military, it seems, has changed little since Punjabi soldier went on rampage against Bengalis after the latter voted in 1970 for a political party whose worldview was unacceptable to West Pakistan’s ruling elite.

Punjab, now Pakistan’s most populous province with 53 percent of the country’s population, provides 72 percent of Pakistan’s army. It also is the home to the majority of foot soldiers for Jihadi groups wreaking havoc on Pakistan and its neighbors. That includes sectarian terrorists, Afghan Taliban and anti-India militants including groups like the one that was responsible for the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

The Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan and its allied jihadi groups have ensured that Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and the FATA region (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) are not secure or stable from Pakistan’s perspective. Pakistan also faces an insurgency in Balochistan since the 1970s that has worsened in recent years with the ‘kill and dump’ policy adopted by Pakistan’s military-intelligence establishment.

Not only is Pakistan being torn apart by these insurgencies, but its citizens are participating in insurgencies in other parts of the world. Pakistanis have been members of Al Qaeda and prominent leaders of that movement Khalid Shaikh Mohammad and Ramzi Yusuf considered Pakistan their home. That Osama bin Laden was found in a Pakistani garrisons city speaks volumes of the influence of global terrorists in that country.

These days, Pakistanis have been killed fighting on both sides of the war in Syria. Pakistani Sunnis have volunteered to fight for both the Al Qaeda affiliate Al Nusra Front as well as the ISIS in Syria while Pakistani Shias seem to be fighting as part of the Pakistani Shi’a militia Zainabiyoun Brigade.

Under such circumstances, Pakistan should be focusing on its internal challenges. Instead it is increasingly adopting a hyper nationalist stance against India and now Bangladesh. Afghanistan has been unhappy for years with Pakistan’s support for the Taliban. Pakistan is becoming increasingly isolated in South Asia because it is insisting on denying facts that its neighbors know to be reality.

According to scholar and former Pakistani Ambassador to the United States, Husain Haqqani, the roots of this lie in Pakistan’s desire for parity with India. Pakistani leaders are obsessed with matching, or surpassing, India’s stature, prestige and military capability. But Pakistan’s denial of harsh realities and insistence on its ‘we do no wrong’ rhetoric has worsened its ties not only with India but its other neighbors as well.

Pakistan’s ties with Afghanistan have deteriorated over Pakistan’s security establishment insistence on following its age-old policy of supporting jihadi groups in Afghanistan. Kabul insists that Islamabad-Rawalpindi is responsible for the lack of stability and security within Afghanistan whereas Pakistan continues to deny that it is involved. As a result Pakistan’s economy and its people are suffering because unless Pakistan allows transit to India, Kabul is refusing to allow Islamabad trade with Central Asia.

Even Iran, which was historically close to Pakistan, has turned hostile. Every few months,there are incidents reported of firing by Iranian border guards to “target terrorists” trying to enter Iran from Pakistan. Iran asserts- but Pakistan denies - that Pakistan is allowing Balochistan to be used as safe havens by Sunni jihadi groups like Jundullah that operate inside Iran.

The policy of encouraging Pakistani citizens to join jihadi militias after being trained by the army dates back to the 1971 civil war. The ‘war criminals’ currently on trial in Bangladesh were religious fanatics trained to augment Pakistan’s military capability against its disaffected Bengali population. Now, Jihadis are expected to help the Pakistan army maintain control on Karachi and Balochistan while helping Pakistan extend its influence in Afghanistan and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir.

The insistence on denying that Pakistan committed atrocities during the Bangladesh war of 1971 reflects the refusal of the Pakistani elite to accept the folly of using jihad as an element of state policy. Denials notwithstanding, Pakistan’s army attempted genocide in Bangladesh and still failed to hold on to its eastern wing. Instead of benefitting Pakistan, its current Jihadi policy will only radicalize its society further and increase stress along its various faultlines.

Follow Aparna Pande on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Aparna_Pande

Aparna Pande Director, India Initiative, Hudson Institute
good article but message is not received by those who dont want to listen. history will repeat itself.
 
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Written by a Hindustani, that's all anyone needs to know about it.
good article but message is not received by those who dont want to listen. history will repeat itself.
Wikipedia:

The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue[1]) is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.

The fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit. The first criterion of a good argument is that the premises must have bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim in question.[2] Genetic accounts of an issue may be true, and they may help illuminate the reasons why the issue has assumed its present form, but they are not conclusive in determining its merits.[3]
 
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The only reason India hasn't annexed Bangladesh yet is because it has to deal with Pakistan first. The sooner Pakistan & Bangladesh put their differences aside the faster they can achieve prosperity for both their people.

If we stay divided we'll keep suffering the same consequences. If we unite then together we can gain full control of our water supplies thus our own fates. No country can reach their full potential if they don't have complete control of their most vital resources.

I hope one day soon Pakistan & Bangladesh can be proud brotherly nations again. :smart:
 
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Wikipedia:

The genetic fallacy (also known as the fallacy of origins or fallacy of virtue[1]) is a fallacy of irrelevance where a conclusion is suggested based solely on someone's or something's history, origin, or source rather than its current meaning or context. This overlooks any difference to be found in the present situation, typically transferring the positive or negative esteem from the earlier context.

The fallacy therefore fails to assess the claim on its merit. The first criterion of a good argument is that the premises must have bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim in question.[2] Genetic accounts of an issue may be true, and they may help illuminate the reasons why the issue has assumed its present form, but they are not conclusive in determining its merits.[3]

Lol why am I even exchanging with you, you claimed having a disdain for Israel promotes abuse of the blasphemy laws.

good article but message is not received by those who dont want to listen. history will repeat itself.

No it won't. The Pakistani military isn't in as bad of a position as it was in 1971. The Hindustanis will never be able to repeat that rare occurrence of actual competence, inshallah.
 
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Lol why am I even exchanging with you, you claimed having a disdain for Israel promotes abuse of the blasphemy laws.
Pakistanis' "Disdain for Israel" required denying basic human rights of life, liberty, property, and protection under the law - because sticking to the principles of truth, rights, and justice would require sympathizing with the Jews of Palestine, rather than the Arabs who sought to rob and kill them en masse. Once established in the set of Pakistani values, that "disdain" was then easily transferred to East Pakistanis, who were demonized, dehumanized, denied their political rights, and finally targeted for mass murder by the Pakistani Army.
 
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Pakistanis' "Disdain for Israel" required denying basic human rights of life, liberty, property, and protection under the law - because sticking to the principles of truth, rights, and justice would require sympathizing with the Jews of Palestine, rather than the Arabs who sought to rob and kill them en masse. Once established in the set of Pakistani values, that "disdain" was then easily transferred to East Pakistanis, who were demonized, dehumanized, denied their political rights, and finally targeted for mass murder by the Pakistani Army.

You are what is known as a rabble rouser.
 
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You are what is known as a rabble rouser.
Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else near the top of your mind?

...Loki comes out of the woods, and meets Eldir outside of the hall. Loki greets Eldir (and the poem itself begins) with a demand that Eldir tell him what the gods are discussing over their ale inside the hall. Eldir responds that they discuss their "weapons and their prowess in war" and yet no one there has anything friendly to say about Loki. Loki says that he will go into the feast, and that, before the end of the feast, he will induce quarrelling among the gods, and "mix their mead with malice."
 
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