From Munnawar Hassan with love .. for Taliban

[MM_Haider]

When the General wants to hold the talks, and you too say you are pro-talks, then what is the problem when someone from JI advocates the same?

whoever wants the talks is wrong at the moment. the call for talks must come from the other party. a state must establish its writ. I haven't seen a statement from any serving general to hold talks with Taliban. It is only pro-taliban political parties in favour of negotiations.

You wonder what is the agenda, but Munawwar Hassan has clearly requested the government the hold the talks, and it would be on the government to appoint whoever it wishes to, to lead the talks. If such is the fear that JI might be pro-Taliban, then do not include its members in the talks.

along with requesting govt to hold talks Munnawar Sahab is requesting Taliban as well to tell them what guarantees they need? What does this imply? Taliban want political support and JI, JUI(F) type political parties are ready to extend their help.

Do you not think he has advocated a practical approach by advocating mere the "talks"?

as far as JI's current political position is concerned, the answer is yes.

Yes, the Taliban has indeed declared that it was to turn the Islamic Republic into an Islamic Emirate, but how capable are they at achieving that? I would suppose that if they were taken as a real and serious threat, Pakistani Army would have gotten Pakistan rid of them already.

Since Taliban have developed soft corner in the Pakistani masses via religious political parties, it is quite difficult for Pakistani Army to just evade them by use of power. In near past these were not taken as a real threat by now they are being considered so. The only hurdle in front of Army is non-existance of political support, as of today. PMLN wants to save punjab, JI and JUI(F), ASWJ type organizations have the same agenda as that of taliban under the disguise of democracy, PTI is having its own version of first talks then power etc etc so Army alone cannot do anything. In Sawat operation army had political support whi JI doesnt like and that's why want details of that operation.

There is no denying the fact that Taliban will have a stake in Afghanistan (they still do) after US's departure from Afghanistan next year. So, just as, irrespective of how much India would want Pakistan to have no say in post-US Afghanistan, Pakistan is going to have a greater say there, Taliban too is going to have a big say in that Afghanistan and we, esp Pakistan, cannot afford to be blind to that.

The worst that can happen is that the talks may fail. But if things were to take a positive turn, Pakistan's influence in Afghanistan could be amplified by a pro-Pakistan Taliban over there.

I would think that the smart Pakistani statesmen might want to negotiate a peace deal with Taliban inside Pakistan, in return for providing a heavy support by PA in Afghanistan.

Army has now realized that Pakistan must now secure its own borders other than finding strategic depths in Afghanistan. and If you follow Pakistan FO, you would know that Pakistan's strategy towards Afghanistan has been changed, which is better. Pakistan wanting to influence in Afghanistan has brought Pakistan to this stage where PA has lost scores of troops and I am sure Pakistan wont make this mistake again. Let Afghan's decide what kind of govt they want in their country.

My conclusion is, if achieved, a pre-2001 type of Islamic administration in Afghanistan would heavily expand Pakistan's influence in the region. So what harm is there in going for talks with the Taliban when India and US have already shown great interest in that?

As above. such kind of thinking has been changed. It has proven fatal for Pakistan.

 

[batmannow]

I hope you are in majority.

we are in majority, but a quite majority nobels, in the grip of fear & terror?

What matters here is not what Munawwar Hassan says,

what matters is that there are millions of people who are willing to listen to him and follow his party's ideology.
On most accounts those millions are much ardent supporters of their religious following than other political followings.

Until and unless we can educate common people to do away with these idiot mullahs, there is going to be neither peace nor prosperity.

education, comes after rejection, fighting the terror to bring back the spirit of common man, that he can fight against terror?
without it, you will find millions of mallala,s leaving this country , in fear & as a victims of terror?

 

[Sinnerman108]

we are in majority, but a quite majority nobels, in the grip of fear & terror?


education, comes after rejection, fighting the terror to bring back the spirit of common man, that he can fight against terror?
without it, you will find millions of mallala,s leaving this country , in fear & as a victims of terror?

You definition of education is twisted !

 

[Panther 57]

education, comes after rejection,

I understand what you say, to elaborate awareness comes through rejection and failure. Education provides you an opportunity to implement that awareness.

 

[Huda]

US & Nato are foreign power whereas Pakistan has an elected Gov’t. Here foreign Taliban (Afghan, Chechens, Uzbecks, and Arabs etc.) have taken over territory belonging to Pakistan (North Waziristan). US argument doesn’t apply in Pakistan, here Taliban are the occupiers and the aggressors and Pakistan is the victim.

Taliban have brazenly declared that they want to establish an Islamic Emirate in Pakistan and they accept Mulla Omer as Amir ul Momineen. Are we going to disband National & Provincial Assemblies and abandon Pakistan’s Constitution?

Munawwar Hassan & his party are inherently anti- Pakistan State. Naturally he expects Pakistanis to pull their pants down for the enemies of the state; he would be happy to see Pakistan destroyed. JI does not & will never reflect will of majority of Pakistani public as evidenced time & again in the elections. Let them bark to their heart’s content. It is of little consequence.

I am not against talks but what is the agenda? As Gen Kiyani has said talk yes but surrender ‘NO’.

Somewhere I am agree with you .. None of us will accept their rules and regulations which they want to implement in Pakistan .. It'll become one man show in their rule which is completely unacceptable ... If they want start peace talk it'll be better but not on their conditions ...

Past and current Government of Pakistan seems to be helpless in maintaining peace inside the country they are surrounded by 100's of issues which are the obstacle b/w it ..

What will you say about the peace strategy of Government ... ??

 

[batmannow]

You definition of education is twisted !

your explaination of only education without any fight against terror, is just an excuse to give the terrorists more time, to destroy more of schools ?

I understand what you say, to elaborate awareness comes through rejection and failure. Education provides you an opportunity to implement that awareness.

frist reject to bow agianst the terror, 2nd to put up a dedicated fight against terror!
after all that comes education what is terrorism & what is islam?

 

[Panther 57]

Quote Originally Posted by Panther 57 View Post
I understand what you say, to elaborate awareness comes through rejection and failure. Education provides you an opportunity to implement that awareness.
frist reject to bow agianst the terror, 2nd to put up a dedicated fight against terror!
after all that comes education what is terrorism & what is islam?

Couldn't agree more, terrorism should be dealt with iron hand, ruthlessly and immediately

 

[Huda]

Couldn't agree more, terrorism should be dealt with iron hand, ruthlessly and immediately

This is not the solution we can't access to their roots we can cut their foreign funding and chop their head but after sometimes they'll grow again we should give proper and basic education to our kids/youth about jihad.

People who has low income or who can't fulfill their basic needs become gun of terrorists So Unemployment , Underemployment and lack of awareness is the main reason. We must finish the reason not people.

 

[Sinnerman108]

your explaination of only education without any fight against terror, is just an excuse to give the terrorists more time, to destroy more of schools ?


frist reject to bow agianst the terror, 2nd to put up a dedicated fight against terror!
after all that comes education what is terrorism & what is islam?

Arghh, juvenile reasoning ,

To fight you need people,
People who believe in what they are fighting for
People who realize what their ideology means and what they stand for
People who understand what winning holds and what defeat could mean
People who are humbled with responsibility and strengthened by resolve.

None of the above is possible without knowledge, training, and a relentless audit of one's self.

now, grow up and expand your definition of education beyond A B C ..

 

[batmannow]

Arghh, juvenile reasoning ,

To fight you need people,
People who believe in what they are fighting for
People who realize what their ideology means and what they stand for
People who understand what winning holds and what defeat could mean
People who are humbled with responsibility and strengthened by resolve.

None of the above is possible without knowledge, training, and a relentless audit of one's self.

now, grow up and expand your definition of education beyond A B C ..

thanks , i guss you want to make all of the pakarmy soilders to be graduated at least just before, pakarmy goes all out against terrorism?
wow, my friend wow!
what can i say more thn that?
you hve proved that you are a over-educated dentist, who thinks all the problems including world war 2 , happened just because, peoples didnt took the care of thier dam teeths?lol

 

[Vishwamithra]

we are in majority, but a quite majority nobels, in the grip of fear & terror?

education, comes after rejection, fighting the terror to bring back the spirit of common man, that he can fight against terror?
without it, you will find millions of mallala,s leaving this country , in fear & as a victims of terror?

I understand what you are saying, but I would like to bring few points:
There is ancient saying in India, whenever there is conflict between good and evil, the people who sit and watch are bigger culprits than the evil. The message in the saying is that in any given society good people are always in majority, if they start to take part in the conflict, good will always win. The good people of Germany who just kept watching Hitler's actions are bigger culprits than the Nazi party workers.
Terrorists are ready to die and kill for their belief, they don't need bullet proof cars, one leader dies another takes up.
But you the majority you don't even come forward to demand punishment for mumtaz Qadri.

The next question is what are you going to fight for? What is the message? Terrorists are fighting for their own Idea of Islami nizam. There are people who say they are demanding to make Kuran as constitution. You can't say 'sovereignty of Pakistan belongs to Allah and then say we people will decide how to run the state'. That's called Hippocratic. Either you say sovereignty of Pakistan belongs to Pakistan citizens and hence citizens will decide how to run the state. OR you say 'sovereignty of Pakistan belongs to Allah and hence will live by Allah's laws, and hence Kuran is the Constitution'.

The point is if you want to fight them you have to first come up with what you stand for.

Abraham Lincon didn't win the war just because he had better military, he won it because he had a good message, that's why he is still a Hero. The message that said "no more slaves, every man is free, equal rights for all". That message got more support both with in America and in EUROPE. That's what made him win the war. And that's what created totally new soceity.

If you have no message to offer and want to kill Taliban, then all you are suggesting is just keep killing until no more humans are left in Pakistan.
I am sorry if it hurts you but as someone pointed in this forum, principles have become a matter of personal convenience in Pakistan. Unless people are willing stand for principles, you will not end this war. Various international forces will keep supporting various factions for their interest and Anarchy will continue in Pakistan.

 

[somebozo]

Taliban are contract killers of JI, this is no brainier for anyone. Taliban have never attacked JI, it is a continuation of Moododi facist state he envisioned and silently taking over the country. Its time to recognize this threat and shoot all JI leadership dead.

 

[Huda]

Taliban are contract killers of JI, this is no brainier for anyone. Taliban have never attacked JI, it is a continuation of Moododi facist state he envisioned and silently taking over the country. Its time to recognize this threat and shoot all JI leadership dead.

They are hypocrites manipulate the teaching of Islam for self interest,misguiding people by using Quranic verses but killing all of them is unfair it led the society towards extremism ..

 

[batmannow]

They are hypocrites manipulate the teaching of Islam for self interest,misguiding people by using Quranic verses but killing all of them is unfair it led the society towards extremism ..

this country is already in the flood of extermism, what else to be waiting more? my friend?
a total failure? or wait for the crown heading cermony of mullha fazaullha?

 

[mdcp]

Munawar Hassan has showed great responsibility, those idiots talking high and rude just grab dollars and run away as result poor people sufferring, no matter u fight hundred more years there has to be a polictical solution and on the table so why wait for so long