From Munnawar Hassan with love .. for Taliban

[MM_Haider]

Condemning is one but maintaining a bias is another thing. I have seen everybody condemning the acts of terrorism by TTP and often the pro-TTPish attitude of JI. But I have never seen anything in the domain of neutrality about JI's single act from shias. Name JI in front of a shia and it will be greeted with 2 or 3 abuses ab-initio.

your inference is a product of your personal experience.. don't generalize this.. JI has always been having a soft corner for religious Militancy and every Pakistani is / must be antagonistic towards JI for their such acts.. don't bring sectarianism in it.. think like a Pakistani!

 

[SBD-3]

your inference is a product of your personal experience.. don't generalize this.. JI has always been having a soft corner for religious Militancy and every Pakistani is / must be antagonistic towards JI for their such acts.. don't bring sectarianism in it.. think like a Pakistani!

This attitude is what i am talking about.

 

[MM_Haider]

This attitude is what i am talking about.

I am not a shia.. what do you say now? all assumptions and not a single solid proof your side..

 

[Sinnerman108]

What matters here is not what Munawwar Hassan says,

what matters is that there are millions of people who are willing to listen to him and follow his party's ideology.
On most accounts those millions are much ardent supporters of their religious following than other political followings.

Until and unless we can educate common people to do away with these idiot mullahs, there is going to be neither peace nor prosperity.

 

[SBD-3]

I am not a shia.. what do you say now? all assumptions and not a single solid proof your side..

Not everything entails documentary proofs. Somethings can only be observed in bits and pieces.
P.S: I am just discussing an observation made repeatedly. If it is not the case you can deny it that there exist a significant majority which doesn't follow this bias. However, you haven't out-rightly rejected it as well.

What matters here is not what Munawwar Hassan says,

what matters is that there are millions of people who are willing to listen to him and follow his party's ideology.
On most accounts those millions are much ardent supporters of their religious following than other political followings.

Agreed indeed.That seems to be the bone of contention

Until and unless we can educate common people to do away with these idiot mullahs, there is going to be neither peace nor prosperity.

Yet your forgetting one important thing his name is Prof. Munawwar Hassan

 

[MM_Haider]

What matters here is not what Munawwar Hassan says,

what matters is that there are millions of people who are willing to listen to him and follow his party's ideology.
On most accounts those millions are much ardent supporters of their religious following than other political followings.

Until and unless we can educate common people to do away with these idiot mullahs, there is going to be neither peace nor prosperity.

in Hassan Nisar words, the worst blackmailing is in the name of humanity and religion... JI does the blackmailing in the name of religion to achieve its goals under the disguise of being pro-democracy.. as they know in modern times there is no other way that of democratic norms.. as a matter of fact JI doesn't a damn to democracy.. they read in the madrasshas that democracy is haram .. this is what they believe in and this is what they propagate and profess.. as a preliminary canter JI's whishes to make a greater Islamic emirate combining Afghanistan and Pakistan.. this is evident from the latest statement of Munnawar Hassan Sahab.. but only for those who want to cogitate that what Pakistan is losing for having JI and JUI type so called political organizations..

 

[Sinnerman108]

in Hassan Nisar words, the worst blackmailing is in the name of humanity and religion... JI does the blackmailing in the name of religion to achieve its goals under the disguise of being pro-democracy.. as they know in modern times there is no other way that of democratic norms.. as a matter of fact JI doesn't a damn to democracy.. they read in the madrasshas that democracy is haram .. this is what they believe in and this is what they propagate and profess.. as a preliminary canter JI's whishes to make a greater Islamic emirate combining Afghanistan and Pakistan.. this is evident from the latest statement of Munnawar Hassan Sahab.. but only for those who want to cogitate that what Pakistan is losing for having JI and JUI type so called political organizations..

I think a little more history would do no harm.
Do you know why the movement for separating the church from government came about ?

Because of the very same thing. What our Mullahs are doing today is what the "Popes" and "Rabbi" have done in the past; heck almost every religion has had instances of such periods.

What we need is to learn from those who did this before and those who successfully overcame these people.

 

[MM_Haider]

Not everything entails documentary proofs. Somethings can only be observed in bits and pieces.
P.S: I am just discussing an observation made repeatedly. If it is not the case you can deny it that there exist a significant majority which doesn't follow this bias. However, you haven't out-rightly rejected it as well.


Agreed indeed.That seems to be the bone of contention


Yet your forgetting one important thing his name is Prof. Munawwar Hassan

when you state something with confidence it requires documentary proof.. i have repudiated your assertion n number of times and restate that not only Shias are abhorrent towards JI... it is every Pakistani.. except JI followers who are brain washed in the name of religion. read post # 21 for further insight..

 

[SBD-3]

when you state something with confidence it requires documentary proof.. i have repudiated your assertion n number of times and restate that not only Shias are abhorrent towards JI... it is every Pakistani.. except JI followers who are brain washed in the name of religion. read post # 21 for further insight..

Again you're reloving around the same thing rather than making a vivid statement. Same as when the JI leadership is asked to condemn Taliban. I said it before that Everybody (including me) condemns them for their actions at times. But the basis of condemnation are political not personal.

 

[MM_Haider]

Again you're reloving around the same thing rather than making a vivid statement. Same as when the JI leadership is asked to condemn Taliban. I said it before that Everybody (including me) condemns them for their actions at times. But the basis of condemnation are political not personal.

I rest my case as now you are drifting from your stance that only shias are biased towards JI..

 

[SBD-3]

in Hassan Nisar words, the worst blackmailing is in the name of humanity and religion... JI does the blackmailing in the name of religion to achieve its goals under the disguise of being pro-democracy..

And so does the Sunni Tehreek, Jamat'e Wahadat Ul Muslimeen, JUI, Jamat e Ahle Hadith and ASWJ. Everybody is doing it while they can. Speaking the truth to its full matters. Half truth is no better than a lie.

 

[SBD-3]

I rest my case as now you are drifting from your stance that only shias are biased towards JI..

I am not drifting but just remarking that there is a difference between a political and personal difference. You're trying to mingle the two and avoiding any direct answer.

 

[MM_Haider]

I am not drifting but just remarking that there is a difference between a political and personal difference. You're trying to mingle the two and avoiding any direct answer.

you are confused in your stance. personal differences are not under scrutiny as these coexist within the party by congeners. Topic under discussion is political statement by Munawwar Sahab. You have been given direct answers already.

And so does the Sunni Tehreek, Jamat'e Wahadat Ul Muslimeen, JUI, Jamat e Ahle Hadith and ASWJ. Everybody is doing it while they can. Speaking the truth to its full matters. Half truth is no better than a lie.

care to read my last line of post # 21? reading the truth to its full also matters..

 

[SBD-3]

I got this one

You have been given direct answers already.

But whats the point of this?

you are confused in your stance. personal differences are not under scrutiny as these coexist within the party by congeners. Topic under discussion is political statement by Munawwar Sahab.

 

[Not Sure]

US & Nato are foreign power whereas Pakistan has an elected Gov’t. Here foreign Taliban (Afghan, Chechens, Uzbecks, and Arabs etc.) have taken over territory belonging to Pakistan (North Waziristan). US argument doesn’t apply in Pakistan, here Taliban are the occupiers and the aggressors and Pakistan is the victim.

Taliban have brazenly declared that they want to establish an Islamic Emirate in Pakistan and they accept Mulla Omer as Amir ul Momineen. Are we going to disband National & Provincial Assemblies and abandon Pakistan’s Constitution?

Munawwar Hassan & his party are inherently anti- Pakistan State. Naturally he expects Pakistanis to pull their pants down for the enemies of the state; he would be happy to see Pakistan destroyed. JI does not & will never reflect will of majority of Pakistani public as evidenced time & again in the elections. Let them bark to their heart’s content. It is of little consequence.

I am not against talks but what is the agenda? As Gen Kiyani has said talk yes but surrender ‘NO’.

When the General wants to hold the talks, and you too say you are pro-talks, then what is the problem when someone from JI advocates the same?

You wonder what is the agenda, but Munawwar Hassan has clearly requested the government the hold the talks, and it would be on the government to appoint whoever it wishes to, to lead the talks. If such is the fear that JI might be pro-Taliban, then do not include its members in the talks.

Do you not think he has advocated a practical approach by advocating mere the "talks"?

Yes, the Taliban has indeed declared that it was to turn the Islamic Republic into an Islamic Emirate, but how capable are they at achieving that? I would suppose that if they were taken as a real and serious threat, Pakistani Army would have gotten Pakistan rid of them already.

There is no denying the fact that Taliban will have a stake in Afghanistan (they still do) after US's departure from Afghanistan next year. So, just as, irrespective of how much India would want Pakistan to have no say in post-US Afghanistan, Pakistan is going to have a greater say there, Taliban too is going to have a big say in that Afghanistan and we, esp Pakistan, cannot afford to be blind to that.

The worst that can happen is that the talks may fail. But if things were to take a positive turn, Pakistan's influence in Afghanistan could be amplified by a pro-Pakistan Taliban over there.

I would think that the smart Pakistani statesmen might want to negotiate a peace deal with Taliban inside Pakistan, in return for providing a heavy support by PA in Afghanistan.

My conclusion is, if achieved, a pre-2001 type of Islamic administration in Afghanistan would heavily expand Pakistan's influence in the region. So what harm is there in going for talks with the Taliban when India and US have already shown great interest in that?

I mean, who knows, Americans and Indians, both can be pretty sneaky and might have already been through some heavy negotiations by now without letting others know. You do know that the US and India both want an "anti-Pakistan" Afghanistan, right?