From Harappa to Pakistan - 4,000 Year Journey

[Nexus]

So?! Constantinople is in Turkey but was part of the Roman/Byzantine empire! Does it now make it modern day Turkish just coz they live on those lands?!
GTFO!
You have no connection to the Harrapans genetically, PERIOD! You have no proof and cant produce any proof either.
So just let it go and credit it to the land of Pakistan, NOT the people!



Above is a prime example of the greatest Pakistani achievement in 70 years....incessant whining! or as you people call it "Randi Rona" LOL!

But you bring up an interesting point: What is Pakistan's contribution to science and technology?!
LOL

Actually people in western Turkey are Turkified Greeks as they cluster with other Med people.

 

[Nexus]

@Peshwa @Guynextdoor2

i am playing devils advocate here but i have to admit that Modern day Pakistanis, Indian Punjabi, haryanvis, Gujaratis, Western Rajasthanis and some people from Western UP are direct descenders of IVC people as it is proved by Harrapa Ancestry Project.

"baloch" DNA is considered main DNA of IVC people and according to that same study almost 50% of people who live in these regions have Baloch/west Asian Blood. yes, west Asian as we have to remember that Harrapa people/Race are originally Migrants from Ancient Sumeria(syria) and Southern Iran who migrated to North West corner of South Asia.

here are some diagrams that proves my point.

people of IVc never left their Land in mess to migrate to other land, maybe small group did but not all. Harrapa is our history as well as my village in Saurashtra have 22 Major and Minor sites in diameter of 100 Kms. and there is no Aryan or IVC divide here as Aryans where the first people who assimilated priestly caste of IVC people in North West Regions, i am a Brahmins and a "pure" one i am proud of my Aryan Heritage, but i am equally proud of my Harrapa Ancestry as well. i consider myself lucky that i am related to 2 oldest civilizations in the world by not only heritage but by blood as well.

 

[desimorty]

i am playing devils advocate here but i have to admit that Modern day Pakistanis, Indian Punjabi, haryanvis, Gujaratis, Western Rajasthanis and some people from Western UP are direct descenders of IVC people as it is proved by Harrapa Ancestry Project.

"baloch" DNA is considered main DNA of IVC people and according to that same study almost 50% of people who live in these regions have Baloch/west Asian Blood. yes, west Asian as we have to remember that Harrapa people/Race are originally Migrants from Ancient Sumeria(syria) and Southern Iran who migrated to North West corner of South Asia.

here are some diagrams that proves my point.

DNA is one aspect, the other is culture. Perhaps the culture spread further while DNA purity weened down. Hence I believe the Darvidans are the ones that posses IVC culture closest.
IVC was also a very advanced maritime civilization so makes sense for them to end up on the costs of india.

I have a lot of good African friends, and Sri Lankans are generally cool too. Indians on the other hand, the less said the better. But don't you find their need to latch onto the IVC hilarious? They are full of contradictions. They claim the Taj Mahal, but get upset if we claim IVC, even though we are the sons of the soil.

I'm sure there are a few sites of the IVC in modern day India today, but to claim it as their own is as preposterous as the Sudanese claiming the Egyptian civilization just because there are a few sites in the northern part of their country today.

Yea, but Pakistan has an identity conflict. Is Pakistans culture muslim? IVC was not muslim. They had swastikas worshipped pagan gods most likily early forms of Shiva and Ravan. There maybe culture similarity between villagers untouched by modern pakistan. But the Pakistan I hear of apparently begins its history with Muslim invaders. You can own IVC and disown the hindu temples and ruins as some one elses's culture. Can not claim to be IVC descendants and not claim to be hindu descendants. Don't get me wrong. There are pakistanis that are cool with this, accepting the fact that they were once hindu/buddist and then there are those who claim they are from Arabia or Persia and call hindus dogs or something dumber.

You know what? I just shook my head and realised by even discussing with you I have lost the debate. This is about Harappa. A small village in Pakistan. This is about world famous heritage in our country. Why the fcuk am I even discussing this with some junglee from the Ganga or even worse some aboriginal from the Dravidia in India?

Whether we have or not have a connection with our ancestors it is our business. Yes our business. I would chop my ball oxes off, fry them and feed them to a monkey before I make any claim on anything in your filthy Ganga-desh. So what gives you sniffing like a junk yard dog in our yard? What next? Some Niggas from Africa are going to make judgements on our heritage and dish out licences as to what is or is not our heritage?

I will be honest. I don't like Dravidians. I don't like Dalits. I don't like Aboriginals. And India is like stuffed with this crap so frankly I don't want to have anything to do with it. You know I really don't and I mean it I don't really give rats *** about religion. If all of India was Sikhs/Parsee/Brahmins I would be holidaying and trying build bridges with India. But guess what? It is not. It is too full of crap. It's like milk that has had crap mixed into it. It is no good. It is beyond recovery because there is way too much crap inside it.

I open these threads to open eyes of some young Pakistanis to take pride in their land and stand with the the epic group - Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Chinese that gave the world civilization. Not to get trapped in infeiority ridden Ganga people who need the treasures of our land to escape from the reality of being nothing but aboriginals that have as much to brag as Niggas.

End of.

If some Niggas from Africa started lecture me about my country and it's heritage you know what I would say? Fcuk. Same to you.

Well thats a retarded rant. As a Punjabi and Sikh, your comments are disturbing. I think this post speaks about your inferiority complex. Many topics on Paksitan's Identity crises and how it affects youth. Not a problem with Indian muslims.
But to make the case simple for you. South Asia is not just related by blood and culture. Its a land of immigration for thousands of years. Most immigrants to India arrived through the Kyber pass. The aboriginal culture that still exists is on the female side of ancestor worship hindus. Its complicated history that includes the entire South Asian subcontinent.
In short IVC belongs in history. They have left their mark in current Shiviate worshippers. Ravan the other followers of this man,god king migrated to Sri Lanka and were killed off by Shiva and Indra followers. Resulting in the death of male side of the family of descendants for Shiva and Ravan. Shiva was then born again with a male heir of Indra, but kept the Shiva legacy. Which is why we say, twice born shiva. Its convoluted.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Hindustanis claiming IVC is rather funny. That would be like Pakistanis claiming the Gupta empire.



Ew no thanks.



They likely intermingled with Indo-Aryans who migrated to the region.



Wrong, they were Nubian. Plenty of Sudanese people fall under that ethnic category too.



Plz stop with this racist nonsense. It makes you appear sub human.



With all that race stuff you'd make a great Pakistani Hitler. I've already got a more Pakistani Swastika for you:

There are more pyramids in Sudan than Egypt. Ancient Egypt was also ruled by Nubians, a major ethnic group in Sudan. The Sudanese have a rightful claim to Ancient Egypt.

@PAKISTANFOREVER @Kaptaan

So, I think we can form the official Pakistani Nationalist Socialist Party. Kaptaan, you can be our noble fuhrer, and PAKISTANFOREVER, you can be the guy in charge of which races we send to the camps and/or sterilise (think Himmler but more anti than pro Hindustani like he was). I think I should be the Erwin Rommel of the lot, you know, not technically part of the group but I just give lip service and tag along, leading the Pakistani military to conquer great amounts of land (Afghanistan and Iran are looking good right about now)!

Anyone else wanna join? We need a Gobbels.

I know some of these Pakistanis come off a 'racist' but it's not entirely their fault, there is caste in India

 

[django]

Literally everyone from Greeks, to Mongols to Indians (of present day India) and Turks had at some point conquered and pillaged those lands.

HAHAHAHAHAHA Why not use the word Ganagdeshis... let me tell you what real conquering is, when pioneers from the Indus region (present day Pakistan) sometime during the mid iron age made their way down to the thick forests of the Ganga region (present day India), cut down those thick forests with sharp axes thanks to their knowledge of metallurgy and "DOMESTICATED" the "FERAL", "PRIMITIVE", naked, banana eating and tarantula munching primitive forest ancestors of modern day Gangadwellers, instead of showing gratitude for gifting you knowledge of Rig Veda you folks are threatening to drink tea in Lahore Gymkhana (dream on)After all our ancestors did for you folks, domesticating the most undomesticated feral people one can imagine, this is how you repay us????Kulbuhushan, BLA....APS.Damn they are a ungrateful bunch
@Kaptaan @The Sandman @Zibago @Tesky @Path-Finder

 

[Loft38]

Harappa and Indus rightly belong to Dharmic (Hindu, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist) population of the Indian sub continent. Anyone else claiming it to be their own is smoking some funny stuff.

 

[Peshwa]

HAHAHAHAHAHA Why not use the word Ganagdeshis... let me tell you what real conquering is, when pioneers from the Indus region (present day Pakistan) sometime during the mid iron age made their way down to the thick forests of the Ganga region (present day India), cut down those thick forests with sharp axes thanks to their knowledge of metallurgy and "DOMESTICATED" the "FERAL", "PRIMITIVE", naked, banana eating and tarantula munching primitive forest ancestors of modern day Gangadwellers, instead of showing gratitude for gifting you knowledge of Rig Veda you folks are threatening to drink tea in Lahore Gymkhana (dream on)After all our ancestors did for you folks, domesticating the most undomesticated feral people one can imagine, this is how you repay us????Kulbuhushan, BLA....APS.Damn they are a ungrateful bunch
@Kaptaan @The Sandman @Zibago @Tesky @Path-Finder

Cool story bro!

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Harappa and Indus rightly belong to Dharmic (Hindu, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist) population of the Indian sub continent. Anyone else claiming it to be their own is smoking some funny stuff.

Even though it is not situated in "india". So where's the elusive proof that the ancient Harappans were the ancestors of modern day indians? If you can find it, then you are correct. If not, then there is no logic or truth behind your claim. For example, if what you say is true then why isn't there evidence of the Harappan civilisation all over modern day india? Why is it's remnants, relics and legacy only in modern day Pakistan?

 

[Loft38]

Even though it is not situated in "india". So where's the elusive proof that the ancient Harappans were the ancestors of modern day indians? If you can find it, then you are correct. If not, then there is no logic or truth behind your claim. For example, if what you say is true then why isn't there evidence of the Harappan civilisation all over modern day india? Why is it's remnants, relics and legacy only in modern day Pakistan?

Three things---1) Stop claiming you are son of invaders, descendent of arabs/turks if you want to claim IVC history
1) If you claim IVC as your history you have to accept that you are nothing but low caste hindus converted to Islam under knife by invaders
3) If you claim to have arabic/turkish ancestor and not Indian ancestor please give up your IVC claim as IVC is as Dharmic as it can get

Have a clear identity, enough of your identity crisis and twisting of facts to suit your shaky identity

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Three things---1) Stop claiming you are son of invaders, descendent of arabs/turks if you want to claim IVC history
1) If you claim IVC as your history you have to accept that you are nothing but low caste hindus converted to Islam under knife by invaders
3) If you claim to have arabic/turkish ancestor and not Indian ancestor please give up your IVC claim as IVC is as Dharmic as it can get

Have a clear identity, enough of your identity crisis and twisting of facts to suit your shaky identity

We are low caste hindus when you look like this:

And we look like this:

I used the most modest pictures of Pakistanis, but are Indians fucking serious?


And then they have the gall to say 'we are the same people'. GTFO.

 

[Loft38]

We are low caste hindus when you look like this:

And we look like this:

I used the most modest pictures of Pakistanis, but are Indians fucking serious?


And then they have the gall to say 'we are the same people'. GTFO.

Afghan and Baloch, who are bdw most oppressed in Pakistan, conveniently come in forefront when you guys debate about your identity

I have no interest in debating your identity crisis,

As an extremely diverse country that India is, NONE has any sort of identity crisis, SO debating with someone (not just you but entire pakistani junta) who change their identity everyday to suit the debate is nothing but a waste of time.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Three things---1) Stop claiming you are son of invaders, descendent of arabs/turks if you want to claim IVC history
1) If you claim IVC as your history you have to accept that you are nothing but low caste hindus converted to Islam under knife by invaders
3) If you claim to have arabic/turkish ancestor and not Indian ancestor please give up your IVC claim as IVC is as Dharmic as it can get

Have a clear identity, enough of your identity crisis and twisting of facts to suit your shaky identity

But even before the advent of Islam, many centuries before in fact there was ALWAYS miscegenation and mixing between the people in what is now modern day Pakistan and those from the Middle East, Persia and Turkic tribes. This has been going on for 1000s of years. HOW can you make your above claims and be so adamant that modern day indians are the descendants of the Harappans wheras Pakistanis are not, when there is NO evidence whatsoever to prove or disprove that fact? Please give factual answers and no conjecture. It's akin to blacks who vehemently claim that European culture and civilisation were started by Black Africans.


PS The theory that Pakistanis are low caste hindus is an epic failure because modern day low caste hindus or even high caste hindus bear no resemblence to modern day Pakistanis whatsoever. In fact low and high caste hindus both look the same to me. You can't tell the difference.

 

[padamchen]

PDF has these threads like clockwork once every 6 to 9 months going by the archives.

Guaranteed 30 odd pages if gaali galoch does not get it prematurely locked.

Nice tribal photos too.

It's brilliant to have a platform like PDF.

How else would we get to know these things?

Priceless ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Loft38]

But even before the advent of Islam, many centuries before in fact there was ALWAYS miscegenation and mixing between the people in what is now modern day Pakistan and those from the Middle East, Persia and Turkic tribes. This has been going on for 1000s of years. HOW can you make your above claims and be so adamant that modern day indians are the descendants of the Harappans wheras Pakistanis are not, when there is NO evidence whatsoever to prove or disprove that fact? Please give factual answers and no conjecture. It's akin to blacks who vehemently claim that European culture and civilisation were started by Black Africans.

Because both current day Indians as well as their IVC ancestors share a common 'Pagan' religion...

Read more here: http://www.ancient.eu/article/230/

Please read it completely before commenting and try to refute points in this article

PDF has these threads like clockwork once every 6 to 9 months going by the archives.

It's brilliant to have a platform like PDF.

How else would we get to know these things?

Priceless ....

Cheers, Doc

Thank god this stupidity is limited to only PDF

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Afghan and Baloch, who are bdw most oppressed in Pakistan, conveniently come in forefront when you guys debate about your identity

I have no interest in debating your identity crisis,

As an extremely diverse country that India is, NONE has any sort of identity crisis, SO debating with someone (not just you but entire pakistani junta) who change their identity everyday to suit the debate is nothing but a waste of time.

I am a Punjabi, and I can post childhood pictures of myself. Tell me how the **** do we even look the same?

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/share-pics-of-yourself-as-a-kid.167498/

Look through all of the pages. Even Indian members posted their pictures, so tell me. How are we the same?