French & Russians push stopgap submarine sales

[Agent_47]

By SP's Special Correspondent

August 19, 2014: As the wait for Project 75 India gets longer, and as an RFP gets more elusive, both France and Russia are in discussions with the Indian Navy to supply two submarines quickly off the shelf. As SP's had reported last year, France's DCNS has already offered to quickly build two Scorpene attack submarines and supply them. Reports now suggest that Rosoboronexport has made a similar offer. In such an instance, the Amur 1650 is on offer, and would be the first of the type ever built. The tantalising underwater battle between the French and Russians has veered from one side to the other, with top sources now indicating that should the Defence Ministry agree to the navy's request that it be allowed to contract for two submarines directly from one of the two shipyards, it would slow force level depletions compounded by the INS Sindhurakshak tragedy last year. But several questions remain unanswered. For instance, how would the government decide which submarine to choose among the two? Second, would that impact the P75I programme itself? Clearly, the navy isn't anywhere closer to satisfactory force levels.

French and Russians push stopgap submarine sales
- SP's MAI

 

[OrionHunter]

By SP's Special Correspondent
How would the government decide which submarine to choose among the two?
Second, would that impact the P75I programme itself?

Here's how it would choose.....

Threat perception
Naval force projection in the Indian Ocean
On board combat systems
Operational flexibility
Performance
TOT
Cost effectiveness
Maintainability
Reliability
Safety

And why should off-the-shelf procurement affect the P751 program? It won't.

 

[sachin@india]

they should give credit line for purchase of subs at concessional rates.

 

[Lipizzaner_Stallion]

What exactly is quickly built submarine ? They got the order for six Scorpene subs in 2005 and will be delivering the first one in 2016 !

 

[Iggy]

What exactly is quickly built submarine ? They got the order for six Scorpene subs in 2005 and will be delivering the first one in 2016 !

Thats because our lack of ability to absorb technology.. They can build it faster than we can.They do not have to start from scratch like building infrastructure.. If we had bought the first two subs from French and built the rest here, I guess, things would have been changed..

 

[kaykay]

Really a tough call to select. My mind says that Russians are gonna get this deal. but then who knows?

Really a tough call to select. My mind says that Russians are gonna get this deal. but then who knows?

 

[kurup]

Only the French offer makes sense .

Select enlarged scorpene with AIP and VLS modules for P75I .

It will ensure commonality with P75 .

 

[Echo_419]

By SP's Special Correspondent

August 19, 2014: As the wait for Project 75 India gets longer, and as an RFP gets more elusive, both France and Russia are in discussions with the Indian Navy to supply two submarines quickly off the shelf. As SP's had reported last year, France's DCNS has already offered to quickly build two Scorpene attack submarines and supply them. Reports now suggest that Rosoboronexport has made a similar offer. In such an instance, the Amur 1650 is on offer, and would be the first of the type ever built. The tantalising underwater battle between the French and Russians has veered from one side to the other, with top sources now indicating that should the Defence Ministry agree to the navy's request that it be allowed to contract for two submarines directly from one of the two shipyards, it would slow force level depletions compounded by the INS Sindhurakshak tragedy last year. But several questions remain unanswered. For instance, how would the government decide which submarine to choose among the two? Second, would that impact the P75I programme itself? Clearly, the navy isn't anywhere closer to satisfactory force levels.

French and Russians push stopgap submarine sales
- SP's MAI

French offer must be taken,it will lead to reduced cost

Only the French offer makes sense .

Select enlarged scorpene with AIP and VLS modules for P75I .

It will ensure commonality with P75 .

Exactly no need to buy a little bit from everywhere,these are submarines not Candy

 

[Archie]

i think the best bet will be to either go for scorpenes with AIP or lease another Akula
no need to buy amur unless u intend to buy another 6 of them

 

[sancho]

Here's how it would choose.....

Threat perception
Naval force projection in the Indian Ocean
On board combat systems
Operational flexibility
Performance
TOT
Cost effectiveness
Maintainability
Reliability
Safety

Frankly, I think most of this has no importance at the moment, since the situation calls for a sub that can be produced and inducted into operational service in a fast manner, no matter if produced in India or from the vendor. When you look at it like this, the Scorpene is obviously the logical choice from the production point of view. Adding some more to the Indian line, while producing 2 in France is the easiest and best choice to deal with the shortages in numbers.
The Amur is not in production, hardly developed and we would require a complete new production line, but imo it hardly offers enough advantages to justify the effort, other than lower unit costs.
What I find strange with the report is, that it talks only about French and Russian subs. What happend to the U214? It is in production, we had produced it's predecessor in India before and even though most of the know how is gone, it still offers a lot of similarity to the U209s.

 

[Indien]

India should go for the french subs, let russians know what it means indulging with the pakis

 

[Archie]

India should go for the french subs, let russians know what it means indulging with the pakis

Nah
PA is far from getting the Mi35
Russia wont Jeopardize the 35 Billion USD FGFA contract for the 500 Million USD Mi35 order of the PA
You guys should know that if Russia looses the FGFA contract to the F35
then they would be out of the Indian Fighter Market till about 2035, when IAF starts looking for the replacement of the Su30MKI

 

[sancho]

Nah
PA is far from getting the Mi35
Russia wont Jeopardize the 35 Billion USD FGFA contract for the 500 Million USD Mi35 order of the PA
You guys should know that if Russia looses the FGFA contract to the F35
then they would be out of the Indian Fighter Market till about 2035, when IAF starts looking for the replacement of the Su30MKI

Neither has the sale of Mi 35 to Pakistan any relation to FGFA, nor is there even a remote chance that we would take a poor F35 with all the limitations over FGFA.
In fact it's even better for us if Russia can make some money by selling their low end stuff to Pakistan, since that gives them more money for the development of new techs, without being dependent on our funds only.

 

[nair]

What happened to the plan of leasing one more Akula???? There were rumors of it few months back

 

[Echo_419]

Nah
PA is far from getting the Mi35
Russia wont Jeopardize the 35 Billion USD FGFA contract for the 500 Million USD Mi35 order of the PA
You guys should know that if Russia looses the FGFA contract to the F35
then they would be out of the Indian Fighter Market till about 2035, when IAF starts looking for the replacement of the Su30MKI

Actually it is better that they can make money by selling low end stuff to Pakistan,This way they can get more money to put in R&D this way