What's new

French cops arrest Belgian colleagues transporting migrants

Which ethnic groups are you talking about? The French and the Dutch? Belgium used to be part of the Netherlands through 1830. And all of the Netherlands used to be part of the Spanish and Frence empires....

----------
Historically, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg (along with parts of Northern France and Western Germany) were known as the Low Countries; it once covered a somewhat larger area than the current Benelux group of states. The region was called Belgica in Latin, after the Roman province of Gallia Belgica. From the end of the Middle Ages until the 17th century, the area of Belgium was a prosperous and cosmopolitan centre of commerce and culture. From the 16th century until the Belgian Revolution in 1830, when Belgium seceded from the Netherlands, the area of Belgium served as the battleground between many European powers, causing it to be dubbed the "Battlefield of Europe," a reputation strengthened by both world wars.
-----------
With the armed support of revolutionary France, Dutch republicans proclaimed the Batavian Republic, modelled after the French Republic and rendering the Netherlands a unitary state on 19 January 1795. The stadtholder William V of Orange had fled to England. But from 1806 to 1810, the Kingdom of Holland was set up by Napoleon Bonaparte as a puppet kingdom governed by his brother Louis Bonaparte to control the Netherlands more effectively. However, King Louis Bonaparte tried to serve Dutch interests instead of his brother's, and he was forced to abdicate on 1 July 1810. The Emperor sent in an army and the Netherlands became part of the French Empire until the autumn of 1813, when Napoleon was defeated in the Battle of Leipzig. The south gained independence in 1830 as Belgium, while the personal union between Luxembourg and the Netherlands was severed in 1890, when William III died with no surviving male heirs. Ascendancy laws prevented his daughter Queen Wilhelmina from becoming the next Grand Duchess.
------------
  • The name 'Belgium' is derived from Gallia Belgica, a Roman province in the northernmost part of Gaul that before Roman invasion in 100 BC, was inhabited by the Belgae, a mix of Celtic and Germanic peoples. A gradual immigration by Germanic Frankish tribes during the 5th century brought the area under the rule of the Merovingian kings. A gradual shift of power during the 8th century led the kingdom of the Franks to evolve into the Carolingian Empire.
  • The Treaty of Verdun in 843 divided the region into Middle and West Francia and therefore into a set of more or less independent fiefdoms which, during the Middle Ages, were vassals either of the King of France or of the Holy Roman Emperor
  • The Eighty Years' War (1568–1648) divided the Low Countries into the northern United Provinces (Belgica Foederata in Latin, the "Federated Netherlands") and the Southern Netherlands (Belgica Regia, the "Royal Netherlands"). The latter were ruled successively by the Spanish (Spanish Netherlands) and the Austrian Habsburgs (Austrian Netherlands) and comprised most of modern Belgium. This was the theatre of most Franco-Spanish and Franco-Austrian wars during the 17th and 18th centuries.
  • Following the campaigns of 1794 in the French Revolutionary Wars, the Low Countries—including territories that were never nominally under Habsburg rule, such as the Prince-Bishopric of Liège—were annexed by the French First Republic, ending Austrian rule in the region. The reunification of the Low Countries as the United Kingdom of the Netherlands occurred at the dissolution of the First French Empire in 1815, after the defeat of Napoleon.
  • In 1830, the Belgian Revolution led to the separation of the Southern Provinces from the Netherlands and to the establishment of a Catholic and bourgeois, officially French-speaking and neutral, independent Belgium under a provisional government and a national congress

Germanic_dialects_ca._AD_1.png


The distribution of the primary Germanic dialect groups in Europe in around AD 1:

583px-Frisia_716-la.svg.png


14th century
800px-Political_map_of_the_Low_Countries_%281350%29-NL.svg.png


Netherlands Today
800px-2012-NL-prov-relief-3000.jpg


Belgium Today
1024px-Belgium_relief_location_map.jpg


Don't blab about that which you don't know.

Please, I seem to be at least aware of the disintegration of virtually all multi-ethnic states in history.

Look at the examples of Yugoslavia and Czech Republic in just Europe. Soviet Union is another example.

Scoring a cheap point with a wall of text is not befitting of a TTA.
 
.
Please, I seem to be at least aware of the disintegration of virtually all multi-ethnic states in history.

Look at the examples of Yugoslavia and Czech Republic in just Europe. Soviet Union is another example.

Scoring a cheap point with a wall of text is not befitting of a TTA.
Your own post is a cheap point. The thingy in Belgium isn't 'ethnic'. You are making it sound as if there is someting even remotely similar to the situation in former Yugoslavia. Which there isn't. And if you point is 'well its not a federation for nothing' , let me remind you that Germany too is a federation.

Germany in 1648
1280px-Holy_Roman_Empire_1648.svg.png


900px-Map_France_1477-en.svg.png


And as for what is befitting a TTA, who was given TTA-status, you or me ?
(I didn't ask for it).
 
.
Your own post is a cheap point. The thingy in Belgium isn't 'ethnic'. You are making it sound as if there is someting even remotely similar to the situation in former Yugoslavia. Which there isn't. And if you point is 'well its not a federation for nothing' , let me remind you that Germany too is a federation.

Germany in 1648
1280px-Holy_Roman_Empire_1648.svg.png


900px-Map_France_1477-en.svg.png


And as for what is befitting a TTA, who was given TTA-status, you or me ?
(I didn't ask for it).

In Germany people are united by the German language.

Belgium has two groups, which may arguably not be strictly be called ethnic, that speak
a different language. They do not much seem to like each other it seems.

Let me ask you something. If Arabs made up 40% of the Dutch population in say 2050, do
you think Holland would be as stable as it is now?
 
.
In Germany people are united by the German language.

Belgium has two groups, which may arguably not be strictly be called ethnic, that speak
a different language. They do not much seem to like each other it seems.
Germany as we know it today (or of the past century) didn't come about untill about the 19th century.

As for 'the German Language":

The Germanic languages are a branch of the Indo-European language family spoken natively by a population of approximately 500 million people mainly in North America, Oceania, Southern Africa, and Central, Western and Northern Europe. It is the third most spoken Indo-European subdivision, behind Italic and Indo-Iranian, and ahead of Balto-Slavic languages.

The West Germanic branch includes the three most widely spoken Germanic languages: English with approximately 360–400 million native speakers, German with over 100 million native speakers, and Dutch with 23 million native speakers. Other major West Germanic languages are Afrikaans—an offshoot of Dutch—with over 7.1 million native speakers, Low German with roughly 6.7 million native speakers (considered a separate collection of dialects; 5 million in Germany and 1.7 million in the Netherlands), Yiddish—once used by approximately 13 million Jews in pre-World War II Europe —and Scots, both with 1.5 million native speakers. Limburgish varieties have roughly 1.3 million speakers along the Dutch–Belgian–German border.

The main North Germanic languages are Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, and Faroese, which have a combined total of about 20 million speakers.

The East Germanic branch included Gothic, Burgundian, and Vandalic, all of which are now extinct. The last to die off was Crimean Gothic, spoken in the late 18th century in some isolated areas of Crimea.

The SIL Ethnologue lists 48 different living Germanic languages, of which 41 belong to the Western branch, and 6 to the Northern branch

So, German is a West Germanic language. It is mainly spoken in Central Europe. It is the most widely spoken and (co-)official language in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, South Tyrol (Italy), and Liechtenstein; it is also an official, but not majority language of Luxembourg and Belgium. Major languages which are most similar to German include other members of the West Germanic language branch, such as Afrikaans, Dutch, and English. It is the second most widely spoken Germanic language, after English. German is the first language of about 95 million people worldwide and the most widely spoken native language in the European Union.
 
.
Germany as we know it today (or of the past century) didn't come about untill about the 19th century.

As for 'the German Language":

The Germanic languages are a branch of the Indo-European language family spoken natively by a population of approximately 500 million people mainly in North America, Oceania, Southern Africa, and Central, Western and Northern Europe. It is the third most spoken Indo-European subdivision, behind Italic and Indo-Iranian, and ahead of Balto-Slavic languages.

The West Germanic branch includes the three most widely spoken Germanic languages: English with approximately 360–400 million native speakers, German with over 100 million native speakers, and Dutch with 23 million native speakers. Other major West Germanic languages are Afrikaans—an offshoot of Dutch—with over 7.1 million native speakers, Low German with roughly 6.7 million native speakers (considered a separate collection of dialects; 5 million in Germany and 1.7 million in the Netherlands), Yiddish—once used by approximately 13 million Jews in pre-World War II Europe —and Scots, both with 1.5 million native speakers. Limburgish varieties have roughly 1.3 million speakers along the Dutch–Belgian–German border.

The main North Germanic languages are Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, and Faroese, which have a combined total of about 20 million speakers.

The East Germanic branch included Gothic, Burgundian, and Vandalic, all of which are now extinct. The last to die off was Crimean Gothic, spoken in the late 18th century in some isolated areas of Crimea.

The SIL Ethnologue lists 48 different living Germanic languages, of which 41 belong to the Western branch, and 6 to the Northern branch

So, German is a West Germanic language. It is mainly spoken in Central Europe. It is the most widely spoken and (co-)official language in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, South Tyrol (Italy), and Liechtenstein; it is also an official, but not majority language of Luxembourg and Belgium. Major languages which are most similar to German include other members of the West Germanic language branch, such as Afrikaans, Dutch, and English. It is the second most widely spoken Germanic language, after English. German is the first language of about 95 million people worldwide and the most widely spoken native language in the European Union.

I have tough time with Occitan as I only know standard Parisian French + corrupted Quebecois. Guess France is a failed state thats going to break up any time now because of that :P @Vergennes

BTW is it true that there is a gradual transition in almost what is one lanuguage continuum between Netherlands and Germany as you drive across the border?
 
.
Let me ask you something. If Arabs made up 40% of the Dutch population in say 2050, do
you think Holland would be as stable as it is now?
What does that have to do with Belgium? An estimated 60% of the Belgian population speaks Dutch (often referred to as Flemish), and 40% of the population speaks French. Why don't you ask about the stability of Holland if 40% spoke German or English? The 'distance' between French speaking and Dutch speaking Belgians would be comparable.

Arabs are a panethnicity of peoples whose native language is a variety of Arabic. They primarily inhabit Western Asia, North Africa, and parts of the Horn of Africa and East Africa. Arab identity is defined independently of religious identity, and pre-dates the spread of Islam, with historically attested Arab Christian kingdoms and Arab Jewish tribes. Today, however, most Arabs are Muslim, with a minority adhering to other faiths, largely Christianity, but also Druze and Baha'i. Arabs are generally Sunni, Shia or Sufi Muslims, but currently, 7.1 percent to 10 percent of Arabs are Arab Christians.

So, really, what you are introducing is religion, not language. After all, Western Europeans are predominantly Christian (if of different flavors), to the extent that they not non-religious. The Netherlands has seperation of Church and State, no state religion, so it might be a bit of a problem for those that refuse to acknowledge that as a key value in Dutch society: you have no place here if you don't subscribe to that and a few other key values, as laid down in our constiturion and practices in our institions of government.

Religions in the Netherlands (2014)

No affiliation (49.2%)

Roman Catholic (24.4%)
Protestant Church in the Netherlands (5.7%)
Other Protestant denominations (10.1%)
Islam (4.9%)
Hinduism and Buddhism (1.1%)
Other religions (4.5%)
Judaism (0.1%)

BTW is it true that there is a gradual transition in almost what is one lanuguage continuum between Netherlands and Germany as you drive across the border?
No, not really. In the south, there is Limburgish, which - when you get close to the border - starts sounding like German, but it would be just as unintelligable for a German as it is for a Dutch. In the North, you have Frisian, which in some ways is more like English. In between are a varity of regional dialects, ... 'poor Dutch', non-proper Dutch.

West to East aside, the North to South boundary isn't firm at all, with Flemish being very similar (yet notiably different) from Dutch. The 'hard' boundary is Flemish/French, in Belgium. But then again, the French don't want others to speak French unless properly done, and aren't typically good speakers of non-French languages (generalizing here ;-). The Germans are a bit more mellow about their own language, but they have wonderfull regional dialects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_dialects
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_dialects
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varieties_of_French#European_dialects

Belgian French (French: français de Belgique) is the variety of French spoken mainly in the French Community of Belgium, alongside related minority regional languages such as Walloon, Picard, Champenois and Gaumais. Belgian French and the French of northern France are almost identical. The francophones of France generally use Metropolitan French (spoken in Paris and considered standard) although some also use regional dialects or varieties such as Meridional French (in the South of France).
 
Last edited:
.
I have tough time with Occitan as I only know standard Parisian French + corrupted Quebecois. Guess France is a failed state thats going to break up any time now because of that :P @Vergennes

France (Kingdom,Empire,Republic...) was (and still is) an ethnically/speaking diverse country. Its regions have always been inhabited by Celtic,Germanic and Romance-speaking people.
-
As a matter of fact,it's been recently that everyone is speaking french.
During much of our history,people were speaking their local dialects instead of using the french. Do you think that everyone in France was speaking like at the court of Versailles or in Paris?
Even after the revolution,it was estimated that only 25% of the population spoke French. It was spoken exclusively in about 15 departements.... out of 83.
-
Even after an intensive nationalization of the language,there are people still speaking with their regional dialects in the various regions of France.

As of today,people see themselves as french and speak french,but do not forget their heritage and their culture.

The linguistic zones of France.

lang.png


Bilingual road signs in Britanny.

800px-Kastell-Nevez-ar-Faou.jpg


In southern France...

800px-Signalisationbilinguelimousin.jpg


Or even in Alsace...

1024px-Ortsschild_Selestat.JPG


Yes,France is in the brink of collapse,it is another example of how ethnically/speaking diverse countries will break up in the future......
Such a failed and backward country has no future.


Belgian French (French: français de Belgique) is the variety of French spoken mainly in the French Community of Belgium, alongside related minority regional languages such as Walloon, Picard, Champenois and Gaumais. Belgian French and the French of northern France are almost identical. The francophones of France generally use Metropolitan French (spoken in Paris and considered standard) although some also use regional dialects or varieties such as Meridional French (in the South of France).

The average french would have no problem speaking with a french speaking person from Québec (depends on the accent though),Belgium or Swtizerland.....
It's harder to understand the varieties of french spoken in the different regions of our country.
 
Last edited:
.
Languages of Switzerland
ElBgOSv.png


Zweisprachige Gebiete: bi-lingual areas.
Sprachen_GR_2000.png


Languages and dialects of Italy
2000px-Languages_spoken_in_Italy.svg.png


Languages and dialects of Spain
Castillian_dialects_in_spain.png

spain12.png
 
.
What does that have to do with Belgium? An estimated 60% of the Belgian population speaks Dutch (often referred to as Flemish), and 40% of the population speaks French. Why don't you ask about the stability of Holland if 40% spoke German or English? The 'distance' between French speaking and Dutch speaking Belgians would be comparable.

Yes, what about the stability of Holland if 40% spoke English? I can tell you it will lead to disintegration in due course.

Not really sure why you got involved with your wall of text here to be honest as everyone knows that multi-ethnic/lingual countries are a bad idea unless one group is overwhelmingly dominant.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/09/belgium-flanders-wallonia-french-dutch

"Belgium doesn't exist, only Flanders and Wallonia as Dutch and French communites live apart. By Ian Traynor in Brussels"

"Long live free Flanders, may Belgium die" was the battle cry ringing out in Belgium's federal parliament on Thursday as the 150 elected deputies cleared their desks and returned home to prepare to fight an early election next month, triggered by the latest collapse of the national government."

@Nilgiri
@Vergennes
:partay:
 
.
Yes, what about the stability of Holland if 40% spoke English? I can tell you it will lead to disintegration in due course.
And I can tell you it would not. (hint: without explanation of the mechanism either statement is equally true or valid)

There is a trend of learning foreign languages in the Netherlands: between 90% and 93% of the total population are able to converse in English, 71% in German, 29% in French and 5% in Spanish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Netherlands

Not really sure why you got involved with your wall of text here to be honest as everyone knows that multi-ethnic/lingual countries are a bad idea unless one group is overwhelmingly dominant.
Dicto simpliciter, Argumentum ad nauseam
"Everybody knows" is a debating tactic. It doesn't make fiction fact.

I'm sorry you are so internet/media/soundbyte spoiled that asking you to read more than 3 words is too much.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/09/belgium-flanders-wallonia-french-dutch

"Belgium doesn't exist, only Flanders and Wallonia as Dutch and French communites live apart. By Ian Traynor in Brussels"

"Long live free Flanders, may Belgium die" was the battle cry ringing out in Belgium's federal parliament on Thursday as the 150 elected deputies cleared their desks and returned home to prepare to fight an early election next month, triggered by the latest collapse of the national government."
:partay:

I was the first here to point out the ackward situation in Belgium, so I don't understand why you feel a need to lecture me on it. Having said that, looking at your quote, you do realize there is no attempt by either group to go kill the other, or to split into two countries, or one half seeking connection to the Netherlands and the other the France. In fact, Belgium hasn't come apart since 1830 and isn't coming apart today. The facts do not support your claim.
 
.
France (Kingdom,Empire,Republic...) was (and still is) an ethnically/speaking diverse country. Its regions have always been inhabited by Celtic,Germanic and Romance-speaking people.
-
As a matter of fact,it's been recently that everyone is speaking french.
During much of our history,people were speaking their local dialects instead of using the french. Do you think that everyone in France was speaking like at the court of Versailles or in Paris?
Even after the revolution,it was estimated that only 25% of the population spoke French. It was spoken exclusively in about 15 departements.... out of 83.
-
Even after an intensive nationalization of the language,there are people still speaking with their regional dialects in the various regions of France.

As of today,people see themselves as french and speak french,but do not forget their heritage and their culture.

The linguistic zones of France.

View attachment 337845

Bilingual road signs in Britanny.

800px-Kastell-Nevez-ar-Faou.jpg


In southern France...

800px-Signalisationbilinguelimousin.jpg


Or even in Alsace...

1024px-Ortsschild_Selestat.JPG


Yes,France is in the brink of collapse,it is another example of how ethnically/speaking diverse countries will break up in the future......
Such a failed and backward country has no future.




The average french would have no problem speaking with a french speaking person from Québec (depends on the accent though),Belgium or Swtizerland.....
It's harder to understand the varieties of french spoken in the different regions of our country.

I actually quite love the spoken style of French in the south....with the nasal twangs and such.

The Breton language and Celtic languages in general are very interesting too.

Lots of such countries reminds me of India....even within one part of India speaking same language. The diversity and history and variation....yet still most people identify in a larger context with little effort.

And I can tell you it would not. (hint: without explanation of the mechanism either statement is equally true or valid)

There is a trend of learning foreign languages in the Netherlands: between 90% and 93% of the total population are able to converse in English, 71% in German, 29% in French and 5% in Spanish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_the_Netherlands


Dicto simpliciter, Argumentum ad nauseam
"Everybody knows" is a debating tactic. It doesn't make fiction fact.

I'm sorry you are so internet/media/soundbyte spoiled that asking you to read more than 3 words is too much.



I was the first here to point out the ackward situation in Belgium, so I don't understand why you feel a need to lecture me on it. Having said that, looking at your quote, you do realize there is no attempt by either group to go kill the other, or to split into two countries, or one half seeking connection to the Netherlands and the other the France. In fact, Belgium hasn't come apart since 1830 and isn't coming apart today. The facts do not support your claim.

LOL welcome to trying to talk sense to the senseless. Enjoy it if you can.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom