France sees first Rafale jet deliveries to India by 2016

[thestringshredder]

Paris: France expects to make its first deliveries of Rafale warplanes to India by 2016 or 2017, French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian was quoted as saying by financial daily Les Echos.

The paper said France's draft defence budget was based on an assumption that the first deliveries of the Dassault Aviation-built fighters would start in 2016.

Le Drian is set to go to New Delhi for talks about the contract, the paper said. India is negotiating to acquire 126 of the multi-role combat planes.

Indian sources told Reuters in April that the deal could be delayed as the two countries struggle to reach agreement over the role of an Indian state-run subcontractor.

Under the initial terms of the proposed deal, Dassault was expected to provide 18 Rafale fighter jets in "fly-away" condition, and then let the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited or HAL manufacture the rest in India.

However, Dassault now wants two separate contracts to be signed - one for the ready-made ones, and another for the rest to be built by HAL, but India opposes that proposal.

Dassault reportedly has concerns about whether HAL has the capacity and capability to assemble the aircraft and therefore wants to rope in other private Indian firms to manufacture the jets. Sources expect the kinks to be ironed out within the next six months.

India picked the Rafale for exclusive negotiations in January 2012 after a hotly contested bidding war with rival manufacturers, but is still to finalise the $15 billion deal, which would be one of the world's largest defence import orders.

Link - France sees first Rafale jet deliveries to India by 2016 | NDTV.com

 

[rockstarIN]

Getting delayed again? we suppose to sign the contract by end of 2013 or earlier?

 

[President]

great going Anthony..keep on negotiating..red tape at its best!

 

[Hobo1]

If BJP comes to power in 2014 then we can see this happening much earlier. and we can also see Tejas inducted in much larger numbers in IAF.

 

[MST]

great going Anthony..keep on negotiating..red tape at its best!

You can't blame Anthony. He is front runner for becoming the PM in UPA III in 2014 along with Chidu.

He can't have anymore taint on his shirt. Even if this means that the deal not getting signed before the elections. Who gives a damn to the Nation anyways.

 

[Tshering22]

Getting delayed again? we suppose to sign the contract by end of 2013 or earlier?

Deliveries commence two years from the time of contract signed.

Why blame French when our own corrupt, inept and bureaucratic regime took 7 years to buy 126 jets?

 

[IND151]

However, Dassault now wants two separate contracts to be signed - one for the ready-made ones, and another for the rest to be built by HAL, but India opposes that proposal.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...et-deliveries-india-2016-a.html#ixzz2VzsIJzhl

hope this contract gets signed soon without much delays

Though I doubt France will easily backdown on this two contracts issue

 

[Koovie]

Getting delayed again? we suppose to sign the contract by end of 2013 or earlier?

Read the title again.... this time more carefully

 

[ptltejas]

Isn't it much more delay? why should it is not given immediately to us? why to wait for Four Long years? anything can be happen during that time.

Well one question: which fighter is better in interceptor role or for fight against the other plane; Mig-29 or Su-30?

 

[ptltejas]

Just Comparison of Rafale and Amca(on bases of the specification)(wiki)
(plz do not blame for anything)

RAFALE

General characteristics

* Crew: 1–2
* Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
* Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
* Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
* Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
* Empty weight:
o C: 9,500 kilograms (21,000 lb)
o B: 9,770 kilograms (21,500 lb)
o M: 10,196 kilograms (22,480 lb[169])
* Loaded weight: 14,016 kg (30,900 lb)
* Max. takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M) (54,000 lb)
* Powerplant: 2 × Snecma M88-2 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each
* Fuel capacity: 4,700 kg (10,000 lb) internal

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o High altitude: Mach 1.8+ (2,130+ km/h, 1,050+ knots)
o Low altitude: Mach 1.1+ (1,390 km/h, 750 knots)
* Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
* Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
* Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (60,000+ ft/min)
* Wing loading: 306 kg/m² (62.8 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 0.988 (100% fuel, 2 EM A2A missile, 2 IR A2A missile) version M

Armament

* Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30/719B autocannon with 125 rounds
* Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a capacity of 9,500 kg (21,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry combinations of:


AMCA

General characteristics

* Crew: 1 (pilot)
* Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
* Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
* Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
* Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
* Empty weight: 12,000 kg (26,456 lb)
* Max. takeoff weight: 18,000 kg (39,683 lb)
* Powerplant: 2 × GTRE GTX 35 VS Kaveri NG turbofans
o Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,130 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,230 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8
* Range: 1000 km (625 mi)
* Service ceiling: 15,250 m (50,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 230 m/s (45,000 ft/min)

 

[Ayush]

bas mil jaye yaar..

 

[Abingdonboy]

Getting delayed again? we suppose to sign the contract by end of 2013 or earlier?

great going Anthony..keep on negotiating..red tape at its best!

What "delay"?? The only delay concerns the signing of this contract which is running 2-3 months behind by the IAF's own admission. So only delay in final delivery will be a 2-3 month one.

If BJP comes to power in 2014 then we can see this happening much earlier. and we can also see Tejas inducted in much larger numbers in IAF.

What? If BJP comes into power in 2014 how will they get deliveries to commence before a deal being signed this year??

Deliveries commence two years from the time of contract signed.

It is within 36 months AFAIK. So deal signed in 2013----> deliveries in 2016.

Isn't it much more delay? why should it is not given immediately to us? why to wait for Four Long years? anything can be happen during that time.

Immediately? As in when? Tomorrow? The MMRCA contract stipulates first deliveries within 36 months. Do you have any idea how long it takes to assemble a machine as advanced and complex as a Rafale? It is not an overnight process and Dassualt have their own existing commitments to the French forces.


Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Dassualt reward India with early deliveries.

 

[Koovie]

Isn't it much more delay? why should it is not given immediately to us? why to wait for Four Long years? anything can be happen during that time.

Well one question: which fighter is better in interceptor role or for fight against the other plane; Mig-29 or Su-30?

No, the contract will be signed this year and it will take 36 months to deliver the first sqdr.

Just Comparison of Rafale and Amca(on bases of the specification)(wiki)
(plz do not blame for anything)

RAFALE

General characteristics

* Crew: 1–2
* Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft)
* Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)
* Height: 5.34 m (17.5 ft)
* Wing area: 45.7 m² (492 ft²)
* Empty weight:
o C: 9,500 kilograms (21,000 lb)
o B: 9,770 kilograms (21,500 lb)
o M: 10,196 kilograms (22,480 lb[169])
* Loaded weight: 14,016 kg (30,900 lb)
* Max. takeoff weight: 24,500 kg (C/D), 22,200 kg (M) (54,000 lb)
* Powerplant: 2 × Snecma M88-2 turbofans
o Dry thrust: 50.04 kN (11,250 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each
* Fuel capacity: 4,700 kg (10,000 lb) internal

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o High altitude: Mach 1.8+ (2,130+ km/h, 1,050+ knots)
o Low altitude: Mach 1.1+ (1,390 km/h, 750 knots)
* Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi)
* Combat radius: 1,852+ km (1,000+ nmi) on penetration mission
* Service ceiling: 16,800 m (55,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 304.8+ m/s (60,000+ ft/min)
* Wing loading: 306 kg/m² (62.8 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 0.988 (100% fuel, 2 EM A2A missile, 2 IR A2A missile) version M

Armament

* Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) GIAT 30/719B autocannon with 125 rounds
* Hardpoints: 14 for Air Force versions (Rafale B/C), 13 for Navy version (Rafale M) with a capacity of 9,500 kg (21,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance and provisions to carry combinations of:


AMCA

General characteristics

* Crew: 1 (pilot)
* Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
* Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
* Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
* Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
* Empty weight: 12,000 kg (26,456 lb)
* Max. takeoff weight: 18,000 kg (39,683 lb)
* Powerplant: 2 × GTRE GTX 35 VS Kaveri NG turbofans
o Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,130 lbf) each
o Thrust with afterburner: 90 kN (20,230 lbf) each

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8
* Range: 1000 km (625 mi)
* Service ceiling: 15,250 m (50,000 ft)
* Rate of climb: 230 m/s (45,000 ft/min)

You know that you are comparing a real 4.5 gen state of the art multi role fighter which has seen combat with an imaginary paper plane with wikipedia stats?

 

[ptltejas]

You know that you are comparing a real 4.5 gen state of the art multi role fighter which has seen combat with an imaginary paper plane with wikipedia stats?

I know It and even the Specifications given are also not Official. AMCA might be absolute different. I think the FGFA experience will help a lot in making of AMCA and also the Rafale for electronics and other systems. this is just for Joy.

 

[DrSomnath999]

If 2016 we also get that is quite a good news as most probably we would have an operational ready meteor missile on it

cheers