France’s fakement on Pakistani JF-17 Thunders

[ramu]

Hi, this is the best thing that could happen. India knows to much about French avionics and radars. Moreover, you honestly do no think China with its mongol hordes of engineers cannot develop this on their own? The JF-17 was not meant to fly and now look were it is. Yes, this might mean a delay, but it is better in the long run. Thanks!

Angoor ki yaad aa rahi hai ...

Please refer to all the threads that claimed French avionics to be better than Chinese, Israel and Russia. Now why the turn around ?

 

[BJlaowai]

fakement:

1. Any act of deceit, fraud, swindling, or thieving; the act of begging under false pretenses; also, a device by which fraud is effected. I cultivated his acquaintance, examined his affairs, and put him up to the neatest little fakement in the world; just showed him how to raise two hundred pounds and clear himself with everybody, just by signing his father's name.

H. Kingsley, Geoffry Hamlyn, v.
They bought a couple of old ledgers—useful only as waste-paper—a bag to hold money, two ink-bottles, &c. Thus equipped, they waited on the farmers of the district, and exhibited a fakement (forged document) setting forth parliamentary authority for imposing a tax upon the geese!
H. Mayhew, London Labour and London Poor.

2.Any peculiar or artistic production or piece of workmanship. [Slang in both uses.]

 

[ANG]

Hi, I never said French avionics were bad, they have been develped, tried and tested. That is why the PAF wanted them. My personal opinion is that the PAF should not buy them, and yes it will mean more time and delay, but China can develop them. I do not see the value of giving France billions of Euro with limited technology transfer with a list of strings attached. I really hope this deal is dead for good. However, this is my personal opinion. France makes very decent equipment though. Thanks!

 

[Luftwaffe]

mr. read blood..Its not in production in China as we do not need this plane.

that's a big claim you need to prove it that China is not interested in it because its far economical and latest than Chinese inventory of J-7/Q-5s....and lastly act like a chinese..

 

[MaXimMaRz]

mr. read blood..Its not in production in China as we do not need this plane.

that's a big claim you need to prove it that China is not interested in it because its far economical and latest than Chinese inventory of J-7/Q-5s....and lastly act like a chinese..

i guess RED BLOOD has alot of catching up and growing up to do...

 

[MaXimMaRz]

fakement:

1. Any act of deceit, fraud, swindling, or thieving; the act of begging under false pretenses; also, a device by which fraud is effected. I cultivated his acquaintance, examined his affairs, and put him up to the neatest little fakement in the world; just showed him how to raise two hundred pounds and clear himself with everybody, just by signing his father's name.

H. Kingsley, Geoffry Hamlyn, v.
They bought a couple of old ledgers—useful only as waste-paper—a bag to hold money, two ink-bottles, &c. Thus equipped, they waited on the farmers of the district, and exhibited a fakement (forged document) setting forth parliamentary authority for imposing a tax upon the geese!
H. Mayhew, London Labour and London Poor.

2.Any peculiar or artistic production or piece of workmanship. [Slang in both uses.]

nice...you can copy paste !but please keep this out of here

 

[PakSher]

Arms embargoes on Pakistan is why Pakistan's defense industry is ahead of India in manufacturing. India has the cash to buy weapons and pay less attention to manufacturing. JF-17, Al-Khlaid tanks, Missile Attack Naval Vessels, submarine manufacturing etc.. It is the sanctions that motivated Pakistan to develop JF-17, Babur cruise missile, Ghauri, Abdali Missile and the entire nuclear program. If we do not get the French deal that will be good to speed up the avionics and aeronautical engineering base in Pakistan and in about 3-5 years we should be far along.

 

[wali87]

My friend India is light years ahead of Pakistan in defence R&D

and the biggest joke was u talking abt Missile Attack Naval Vessels, submarine manufacturing

If being lightyear ahead means spending more time and not being able to come up with any substantial results and making something work, then i totally agree with you.
I think a comparison between success achieved and failures suffered by both Pakistan and India should sum it up for you.

 

[AVIAN]

Pakistani JF-17 Thunders are already flying without the French parts. The new parts would have enhanced the capability of the aircraft. The PAF has learned its lessons from various US embargoes and now uses a plethora of equipment from various countries for the enhancements. Islamabad does not depend on any one country. The JF-17 Thunder is built from scratch on exact Pakistani needs and most of the equipment, frame and electronics are indigenous. France like the US has never been a reliable supplier for Pakistan. In the 70s the French canceled a Nuclear processing plant that had been signed between the two countries. is there an Israeli connection to this “hold”? Some blame France’s latest chicanery on the Jewish origins of President Sarkozy who has taken all of France to the right of center–abandoning traditional French neutrality on many issues. France has vehemently opposed Turkey’s admission to the EU tying it to Israel’s admittance.

Three is a disjunction between private and public French posturing. Islamabad is used to French double-dealing, duplicity, and equivocation. This latest sleight-of-hand scurvy trick is typical of France’s subterfuge and deceitful fakement. The recent French turpitude on putting a $1.6 billion deal for Pakistan “on hold” is being seen as silly surreptitious trickery by Sarkozy and gang to secure the lucrative Bharati (aka Indian) deal first and put then pressure on Pakistan to force Islamabad to buy the Augustas rather than the German 214 Submarines.

France sells arms to anyone and everyone. This new found streak of logic-chopping insta-conscience may have been nurtured to please Delhi–secure the $2.2 billion deal with with Bharat to upgrade its aging and archaic fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters–and then approve the Pakistani parts.

In a carefully crafted tergiversation France said that it had put the Pakistan deal “It’s a deal that’s not ready from the Pakistani side,” the source said, without giving further details. “For now, the state of the dossier doesn’t allow us to carry on with it.”

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales (TCFP.PA) and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment. Reuters

Not ready from the Pakistani side? What does that mean. There is no check attached with the dossier? What does “state of the dossier” mean? Are the kicbacks not working?–or is it a tactic to place pressure on Pakistan to deal with those that killed the French Engineers working on the Augustas in Karachi.

Analysts beleive that pettifoggery may be linked to slowing down Pakistan’s indigenous plane capability which will directly impact the sale of French Mirages to the third world. Paris may be looking to better safeguards on its technology and a better price from Pakistan.

The French ruse may also be a tickler for Delhi’s MCRC $10 billion deal. With Delhi’s relations with Washington at their lowest ebb, and souring, the French team may be working to get their foot in the door on the $10 sale of aircraft to Bharat.

New Delhi: The France government held up its 1.6 billion dollars sale of arms to Pakistan, reportedly under pressure from India.

The military hardware was to be used for Pakistan’s JF-17 combat aircraft. The sale of electronics and missiles, under the first part of a six billion euro deal, was signed with Islamabad.

Paris is said to be concerned over whether Pakistan would be able to pay-off the huge deal amount or not. And, also worried over the safety of the sophisticated technology.

However, experts are not willing to accept India would be able to exert pressue on France to hold the deal for long.

“I don’t really know how much pressure India can really exert on France because in the past we have seen that America has tremendous influence on their policies,” said Hamid Gul, former DG of ISI.

“Americans have supplied us already. They have committed to supply us 18 F-16 aircraft. Any aircraft that France can put out it can be outmatched by what the Americans can do.”

“We have very good relations in this field with China and we have developed JF-17 Thunder. We don’t see any immediate possibility of war. Therefore we have time in which we can develop technology,” he added. IBN and agencies.

In 2008 Pakistan Navy under chief of naval staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir made efforts for including German 214 Class submarines in its fleet and owing to Navy’s persistent efforts, the government had approved plans for acquisition of these submarines to be built at Karachi Shipyard under transfer of technology programme.

The details were later worked out between the two countries when a Pakistan Navy delegation visited Germany in April.

However recently quoting Pakistani government sources, the Financial Times Deutschland says President Asif Zardari may overrule his military’s preference for the German subs to take up a “better offer” from France.



France?s fakement on Pakistani JF-17 Thunders - CombatAircraft.com News

As far as above article is concerned, Author seems to be highly unfavourble to French way of doing the business. I think this is highly unfair to abuse French for their way of dealing, as they are free to laid down their own way of selling weapon systems to any country in the world. There is no need to bring India into such uninvited controversy over french denial of avionics to JF-17. It is Pakistan which needs to get its act better rather then finding its way to get tizzy with french for not letting business on Pakistani terms.

 

[wali87]

As far as above article is concerned, Author seems to be highly unfavourble to French way of doing the business. I think this is highly unfair to abuse French for their way of dealing, as they are free to laid down their own way of selling weapon systems to any country in the world. There is no need to bring India into such uninvited controversy over french denial of avionics to JF-17. It is Pakistan which needs to get its act better rather then finding its way to get tizzy with french for not letting business on Pakistani terms.

But then again if their way of dealing is unfair to begin with you cant say that the above article is unfair. Pakistan decided to accept their offer of selling the avionics and missiles but then they backed out. You make an offer and then when the person decides to go ahead with it you back out. Put it vice versa and then think what the French would say, would they say the same I think not. Put yourself as an Indian in Pakistan's shoes and then think about it for a minute, would you stick to your original statement and say thats just their way of dealing? i think not.

Theres more of a political reason to back out of the deal because Pakistan was the one who initially decided to go ahead with the deal in the first place. I mean a country DOES NOT accept an offer for the heck of it my friend or does it?

The French know Pakistan needs the equipment, its a cat and mouse game that the french are playing here.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think it is a lesson for pakistan we use to count on french more than we shoudent anyway i hope next time when we sign any deal with them we should think 100 times they are no more reliable what ever the probleum is france has made a big mistake and no one in future have faith on them

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

I must say to France "GREED IS ALWAYS A CURSE"
and France will surly come to Pakistan after being kicked out of MMRCA contest,
"COME ON NOW PAKISTANIS,THE GRAPES(MMRCA) WERE SOUR"