France planning to build and DOMINATE EU Army, Nato claims as nation neglects duties

[mike2000 is back]

That list is full of all 3rd world countries.

French are just not cut out to be soldiers as when they come against an industrialised country like Germany, they lose ALL the time.

NOPE they were already an industrialised superpower way before even the secound world war. Plus they and allies also fought Germany and its allies to a standstill during WWI.

Moreover, seems you understimate the difficulty /complexity of fighting an expeditionary war thousands of miles away from your home country the other side of the ocean on somebody else's own land and beating them on their own home soil. How many countries can do that even today? Not many.

Moreover, industrialised global powers didnt and don't really fight each other directly. Even the British empire at its peak never really waged war against other industrialised advanced powers like Russia,Japan, etc. Not that we couldn't beat them(we could since the Royal Navy virtually ruled the world's ocean without equal) but because there was no need to waste our resources for such a long protracted war/conflict and there was more to lose than gain at the end of the day. Its Germany that shattered this rule and made big industrialised powers go to direct war against each other with disastrous consequences for mankind.

Anyway, im sure you know all this but you are intentionally trolling France for some reason.

 

[Vergennes]

Verdun...one of your finest hour.

Now go tell those +160.000 french soldiers killed and the many more injured or disabled for life because of the battle of Verdun that 'they aren't cut out to be soldiers'.
This guy surely knows nothing about us and surely thinks that war is like in call of duty.

 

[SvenSvensonov]

Now go tell those +160.000 french soldiers killed and the many more injured or disabled for life because of the battle of Verdun that 'they aren't cut out to be soldiers'.
This guy surely knows nothing about us and surely thinks that war is like in call of duty.

You can't fix those who are willfully ignorant. But the rest of us see the French as the *ss kicking warriors they are:

Or we could just ask those on the receiving end of those "not cut out to be soldiers" in Afghanistan, CAR and Mali.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

Now go tell those +160.000 french soldiers killed and the many more injured or disabled for life because of the battle of Verdun that 'they aren't cut out to be soldiers'.
This guy surely knows nothing about us and surely thinks that war is like in call of duty.

War is never like Call of Duty...but the soldiers there, they did their duty. Rest in peace, brothers.

 

[Vergennes]

@SvenSvensonov I take it very personnaly,as having fought and served in the army,I cannot let someone who doesn't know anything about what being a soldier is,about being deployed during months in an unknown territory far from your family,the psychological effects of war,coming under ambush and being attacked from every sides by ennemies you cannot see,seeing your teamates losing their lives and so on...
My former regiment lost a soldier during our deployment in Afghanistan,and now go tell him 'you aren't cut out to be a soldier'.
The regiment I served was created in 1720,go tell all those that served under its flag and those that died for it 'you aren't cut out to be a soldier'.

War is never like Call of Duty...but the soldiers there, they did their duty. Rest in peace, brothers.

Even the german soldiers deserve respect. In fact every soldiers deserve respect.
Don't you think that these soldiers that were in these trenches wanted to be with their families enjoying a peaceful life instead ?
They decided to give up everything and to serve their countries as they thought it was the best thing to do.
They followed the orders as best as they can. Thankfully,we learned from the past and are allies now.

Never again.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

Indeed i mean both, French an Germans, may their sacrifice in this madness be never forget.

@SvenSvensonov

Never again.

You said it...never again.

 

[-SINAN-]

Vauban, a so called E.U army will be a disaster for europe. With all these pussy countries we have in europe who dont care to invest on their own defence(forget about projecting power abroad /helping allies around the world) or take part in overseas deployments/wars to protect european interests. Only Britain and France are committed to the defence of Europe and are ready/taking part in deploying troops wherever necessary around the globe to protect those interests, the rest are just backbenchers in many ways.

Mike is there a dilemma here of some sort of? Regardless of how much these smaller European countries spend on their defense, they will never be the decision makers. Then, why should they spend in the first place ?

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The Turkish Armed Forces participate in European Union battlegroups under the control of the European Council, namely the Italian-Romanian-Turkish Battlegroup. The TAF also contributes operational staff to the Eurocorps multinational army corps initiative of the EU and NATO.

The Turkish Armed Forces collectively rank as the second largest standing military force in NATO, after the U.S. Armed Forces, with an estimated strength in 2015 of 639,551 military, civilian and paramilitary personnel.

@flamer84 what is this European Union battlegroup thingy.....

 

[mike2000 is back]

Mike is there a dilemma here of some sort of? Regardless of how much these smaller European countries spend on their defense, they will never be the decision makers. Then, why should they spend in the first place ?

Not really bro. Germany for example is not a small country. In fact even Italy and spain have a larger GDP/economy than Russia, but they spend far less in defence than most mid size asian countries. Lol
Thing is they are used to the U.S,U.K and France taking the lead in NATO and Europe's protection,so they are complacent and don't see the need to contribute anything. Only when trouble starts will they start seeking NATOs 'aid and commitment'.lol

In fact the E.U has the largest economy in the world, yet we as a whole spend less than half as much as the U.S militarily. that says alot about what other European countries think about defence. Lol

 

[-SINAN-]

Not really bro. Germany for example is not a small country. In fact even Italy and spain have a larger GDP/economy than Russia, but they spend far less in defence than most mid size asian countries. Lol
Thing is they are used to the U.S,U.K and France takibg the leas in NATO and Europe's protection,so they are complacent and don't see the need to contribute anything. Only when trounle starts will they start seeking NATOs 'aid and commitment'.lol

In fact the E.U has the largest economy in the world, yet we as a whole spend less than half as much as the U.S militarily. that says alot about what other European countries think about defence. Lol

But ain't it only natural ?

For example Germany, they do not have global ambitions, have former colonies to keep an eye on, or have assets all over the world.....yes, in the face on imminent danger they would spend much more on defense but there is no such threat. So, i think it would be pointless for them to spend on military.

 

[mike2000 is back]

But ain't it only natural ?

For example Germany, they do not have global ambitions, have former colonies to keep an eye on, or have assets all over all the world.....yes, in the face on imminent danger they would spend much more on defense but there is no such threat. So, i think it would be pointless for them to spend on military.

Lool who knows when a war will start? NOBODY.

Did Ukraine eever imagined Russia will invade and take Crimea from them and intervene to destabilised,/carve out their eastern region? NO,
Did Georgia ever imagined Russia will go to war with them and carve out Abkhazia from them? NO
Did saddam and Afghanistan expect the U.S and U.K to invade them long before hand? NO
Etc etc.
Thing is we NEVER know when a war will start, so better be safe than sorry. History has proven that several times. Neglecting your country's defence is the worse thing a country can do.

For germany I understand though, since britain and the U.S over denazified Germany to the point that they are wary of anything military. But for the others, I dont understand. lol

 

[-SINAN-]

Lool who knows when a war will start? NOBODY.

Did Ukraine eever imagined Russia will invade and take Crimea from them and intervene to destabilised,/carve out their eastern region? NO,
Did Georgia ever imagined Russia will go to war with them and carve out Abkhazia from them? NO
Did saddam and Afghanistan expect the U.S and U.K to invade them long before hand? NO
Etc etc.
Thing is we NEVER know when a war will start, so better be safe than sorry. History has proven that several times. Neglecting your country's defence is the worse thing a country can do.

For germany I understand though, since britain and the U.S over denazified Germany to the point that they are wary of anything military. But for the others, I dont understand. lol

Well, those countries you mentioned are non-NATO countries.

And it's not like Europe is defenseless and in the worst case it has US to back them up via NATO. While knowing world's sole super power is protecting you and not complaining a bit....I would spend on my welfare rather then on defense....

Yes, Turkey is a different story, we spend a lot, keeping a strong army....but if we had been in the middle of Europe, (not being neighbors with ME countries and not having hostile countries all around us) it would have been a different story.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Well, those countries you mentioned are non-NATO countries.

And it's not like Europe is defenseless and in the worst case it has US to back them up via NATO. While knowing world's sole super power is protecting you and not complaining a bit....I would spend on my welfare rather then on defense....

Yes, Turkey is a different story, we spend a lot, keeping a strong army....but if we had been in the middle of Europe, (not being neighbors with ME countries and not having hostile countries all around us) it would have been a different story.

Nope they are not non-NATO countries.lool They are NATO members, even though they act like they are not part of NATO. Lool
Its also true that many european countries have gotten complacent because since the end of WWII and the cold war there has never been any major conflict in Europe, and the E.U has been in an era of peace and stability FOR all this period. So they take it for granted, not knowing that things won't remain like this forever as no situation is permanent.

 

[-SINAN-]

Nope they are not non-NATO countries.lool They are NATO members, even though they act like they are not part of NATO. Lool

No, no, i'm talkin about Ukraine, Georgia, Iraq, Afganistan....the examples you gave..they got invaded since they are non-NATO members...no one on the world has guts to......forget invading even attacking a NATO country. (as proven when we downed Ruskies jet)

Its also true that many european countries have gotten complacent because since the end of WWII and the cold war there has never been any major conflict in Europe, and the E.U has been in an era of peace and stability FOR all these period. So they take it for granted, not knowing that thinga won't remain like this forever.

Like i said bro, no imminent treat.

 

[mike2000 is back]

No, no, i'm talkin about Ukraine, Georgia, Iraq, Afganistan....the examples you gave..they got invaded since they are non-NATO members...no one on the world has guts to......forget invading even attacking a NATO country. (as proven when we downed Ruskies jet)



Like i said bro, no imminent treat.

Well, wars never announce their beginning 'imminently'. Lol

 

[-SINAN-]

Well, wars never announce their beginning 'imminently'. Lol

Mate.

Who posses threat to Europe ?

In your West you have Atlantic ocean.
In your South you have North African countries which posses zero threat.
In your East you have Turkey, a strong NATO member covering your flank.
In your North you have Russia.

Even if you have superior numbers of equipment (tanks, ships, aircraft) against Russia, it holds no meaning as they have nuclear weapons...

So, what are you going to do with a massive/strong European armed forces at all ?