Forty Years Ago, April 30, 1975. Who Won the Vietnam War?

[Viet]

WTH??? the weapons/help China and the soviet union provided was just a drop in the ocean for the Vietcong's? Lmao. I thought some Chinese members were being anti Vietnamese/biased when they said you people are an ungrateful bunch of people.

Truth is without the massive soviet and most of all Chinese support both in terms of weapons, tanks, artillery, weapons, logistics, manpower (there was tens of thousands of chinese soldiers/military advisers in vietnam , and some soviet union ones as well etc) the vietcong would have been decimated in a matter of months at best . So you have the Russians and Chinese to thank for your VCP survival , if not your country would still be divided into two or better still be unified under south Vietnamese U.S backed government, which wouldn't have been a bad thing IMO since it would have allowed Vietnam to develop much faster and be open to the world longgg ago.

chinese help was a poison for vietnam. the price for vietnam to get chinese support was very high. VERY HIGH. invading of paracels, spratlys, cambodia genocide, invasion of north vietnam, economic sanction. all just because vietnam allied with the USSR. Chinese commie never supported vietnam to win the war. you shall know chinese wanted vietnam to fight to the last man and women. shall we thank them for destroying our country, killing our people?

no, chinese are as bad as other dirty aggressors.

ungrateful? do you know how many times chinese supported our enemies?

yes, it is a big drop in the ocean, when compared to the amount of military hardware the US and her allies had deployed to vietnam for fighting. the US government alone sent in total 2,000,000 men and women to vietnam, at the height of the conflict at one time over 550,000 US soldiers, 10,000 aircraft, 10,000 tanks, and 22 aircraft carriers.

here US military hardware displayed in museums in vietnam.

 

[mike2000 is back]

chinese help was a poison for vietnam. the price for vietnam to get chinese support was very high. VERY HIGH. invading of paracels, spratlys, cambodia genocide, invasion of north vietnam, economic sanction. all just because vietnam allied with the USSR. Chinese commie never supported vietnam to win the war. you shall know chinese wanted vietnam to fight to the last man and women. shall we thank them for destroying our country, killing our people?

no, chinese are as bad as other dirty aggressors.

ungrateful? do you know how many times chinese supported our enemies?

yes, it is a big drop in the ocean, when compared to the amount of military hardware the US and her allies had deployed to vietnam for fighting. the US government alone sent in total 2,000,000 men and women to vietnam, at the height of the conflict at one time over 550,000 US soldiers, 10,000 aircraft, 10,000 tanks, and 22 aircraft carriers.

here US military hardware displayed in museums in vietnam.

Who talked about China being an angel/saint or helping Vietnam just for the sake of their kindness??LOOL

Have you ever seen a country/power basing its foreign policy on goodness/morality/kindness?? IT HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE IN HISTORY AND NEVER WILL IT BE. Be it the U.S, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, India, China, etc . All of them do things for their nationl interests. So you shouldnt single out any one country to be honest.

Fact of the matter is we are talking about a particular subject, which is wihout massive Soviet and Chinese support your Vietcongs would have been decimated in a few months at best. Thats the simple truth. Both China and the Soviets supported you back then because i was in their interests to do so against the 'imperialist U.S/west'. Mao himself summarised this clearly to your premier in i quote:
“Why have the Americans not made a fuss about the fact that more than 100,000 Chinese troops help you building the railways, roads and airports although they knew about it?” [67]
- - Chairman Mao to Vietnamese Premier Dong, 1970

You can go on and on arguing about why China supported you both materially, militarily and with manpower just out of bad intenions, but it doesnt matter, fact of the matter is that their support was crucil for your VCP/vietcong survival, else your country will be just another north and south korea like situation today, or better still united but under a capitalistic U.S BACKED south vietnamese government which to be honest would have been far more better for ordinary vietnamese in terms of development/living standard/growth/trade etc.

You should learn to put your biased/resentment/hatred for your rival and learn to acknowledge historical facts at least for your country's sake. WITHOUT THE SOVIETS AND CHINESE THERE WILL BE NO VCP IN VIETNAM TODAY FULL STOP. So blame them for your longg way, and subsequent sanctions/isolation (which made Vietnam lag soo much behind its SEA) neighbours, because if not for these two countries, Vietnam wouldnt have gone through all that to be honest.

China Contributed Substantially to Vietnam War Victory, Claims Scholar | Wilson Center
Chinese and Soviet involvement in Vietnam
Military History Online
- Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge

 

[Viet]

Who talked about China being an angel/saint or helping Vietnam just for the sake of their kindness??LOOL

Have you ever seen a country/power basing its foreign policy on goodness/morality/kindness?? IT HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE IN HISTORY AND NEVER WILL IT BE. Be it the U.S, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, India, China, etc . All of them do things for their nationl interests. So you shouldnt single out any one country to be honest.

Fact of the matter is we are talking about a particular subject, which is wihout massive Soviet and Chinese support your Vietcongs would have been decimated in a few months at best. Thats the simple truth. Both China and the Soviets supported you back then because i was in their interests to do so against the 'imperialist U.S/west'. Mao himself summarised this clearly to your premier in i quote:
“Why have the Americans not made a fuss about the fact that more than 100,000 Chinese troops help you building the railways, roads and airports although they knew about it?” [67]
- - Chairman Mao to Vietnamese Premier Dong, 1970

You can go on and on arguing about why China supported you both materially, militarily and with manpower just out of bad intenions, but it doesnt matter, fact of the matter is that their support was crucil for your VCP/vietcong survival, else your country will be just another north and south korea like situation today, or better still united but under a capitalistic U.S BACKED south vietnamese government which to be honest would have been far more better for ordinary vietnamese in terms of development/living standard/growth/trade etc.

You should learn to put your biased/resentment/hatred for your rival and learn to acknowledge historical facts at least for your country's sake. WITHOUT THE SOVIETS AND CHINESE THERE WILL BE NO VCP IN VIETNAM TODAY FULL STOP. So blame them for your longg way, and subsequent sanctions/isolation (which made Vietnam lag soo much behind its SEA) neighbours, because if not for these two countries, Vietnam wouldnt have gone through all that to be honest.

China Contributed Substantially to Vietnam War Victory, Claims Scholar | Wilson Center
Chinese and Soviet involvement in Vietnam
Military History Online
- Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge

you shall stop posting such biased articles produced by chinese propaganda officers. only one thing is true: after north vietnam and soviets signed a friendship treaty in 1968, communist china stopped all supports and withdrew all personnel from vietnam.

by the way, bro, I was not a VC. moreover my father served in the south vietnamese navy. why vietnam is poor and backward today? well, there are many reasons I told several times here on PDF. sure, without foreign invasions and blinded domestic economic policy, vietnam today would have become prosperous as korea and japan. we virtually lost 100 years of economic development.

 

[mike2000 is back]

the US armed forces lost 60,000 men on the battlefields. 150,000 US soldiers committed suicide after returning home, plus 300,000 men were wounded, with 100,000 ended up as invalid. the US army never lost a battle? let see.

Do you know what i mean by losing a battle? You can fight a war and never lose a single battle like the U,S did in Vietnam, but still lose the war(mainly for political/strategic reasons). Jut like the U.S did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Would say the U.S lost any battle in Iraq?? Nope they didnt but yes to some extent they lost the war because of their decisions/political actions after the invasion. Same in Vietnam.

On another note, looking at first the second world war between the U.S/U.K and Japan, yes they U.S indeed lost several main battles against the Japanese (like the first battle of the philippines) same as we lost fist against the Japnese in the battle of Singapore and Malaysia, but later had the upper hand subsequently. Second the Korean war between the U.S/U.N and China, yes the U.S indeed lost several key battles against the Chinese and had to retreat to the ultimate end to the south and regroup before retaking the advantage over the Chinese and subsequntly getting bogged down into a stalement after 3 years of fierce fighting. Here im talking about an open major war between clearly defined ennemies/soldiers, not by mere guerillas fighters hiding in Bush/mixing with civilians like the Vietcong/taliban/Militants in Iraq etc and avoiding open battle.

And a i said before is unfortunate Vietnam had to go through all these suffering attrocitiesin its own country. The people indeed suffered alot because of all these wars. I think Vietnamese leaders made some wrong decisions unlike say countrieslike Thailand who were more smart to know how to play the game and avoided being harmed. My condoleance to all the poor innocent Vietnamese who had to die because of such a useless war, Vietnam cant really say it won the war, since the effects it had on the country alone is still clearly visible today. Winning would have been being wise enough to know how to avoid such a war in the first place. Losing over4million people while your adversary lost barely 50000 and destroyed the country back to the dark ages doesnt makes it look good to be honest.

you shall stop posting such biased articles produced by chinese propaganda officers. only one thing is true: after north vietnam and soviets signed a friendship treaty in 1968, communist china stopped all supports and withdrew all personnel from vietnam.

by the way, bro, I was not a VC. moreover my father served in the south vietnamese navy. why vietnam is poor and backward today? well, there are many reasons I told several times here on PDF. sure, without foreign invasions and blinded domestic economic policy, vietnam today would have become prosperous as korea and japan. we virtually lost 100 years of economic development.

well, you can call it Chinese propaganda(never mind that many western/U.S military veterans/officials clearly acknowledge this fact) all you want, but anybody who has any little knowledge of this conflicts know this simple fact. Even my ultra nationalistic veitnamese friend Niceguy admitted/knows this.lol

Tru bro, Had the south Vietnamese/U.S won the war, im sure Vietynam would have ben much more prosperous today, since it wouldnt have gone through all the sanctions/isolation(and 79 war with China) it went through and making the wrong choice to ally with the wrong side U.S.S.R which collapse leaving the country eve more broke/isolated. Anyway, thats life, we cant change history. Vietnam just has to learn from the past and look forward to the future. Wishing all the best to Vietnam.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Who talked about China being an angel/saint or helping Vietnam just for the sake of their kindness??LOOL

Have you ever seen a country/power basing its foreign policy on goodness/morality/kindness?? IT HAS NEVER BEEN THE CASE IN HISTORY AND NEVER WILL IT BE. Be it the U.S, France, Britain, Japan, Russia, India, China, etc . All of them do things for their nationl interests. So you shouldnt single out any one country to be honest.

Fact of the matter is we are talking about a particular subject, which is wihout massive Soviet and Chinese support your Vietcongs would have been decimated in a few months at best. Thats the simple truth. Both China and the Soviets supported you back then because i was in their interests to do so against the 'imperialist U.S/west'. Mao himself summarised this clearly to your premier in i quote:
“Why have the Americans not made a fuss about the fact that more than 100,000 Chinese troops help you building the railways, roads and airports although they knew about it?” [67]
- - Chairman Mao to Vietnamese Premier Dong, 1970

You can go on and on arguing about why China supported you both materially, militarily and with manpower just out of bad intenions, but it doesnt matter, fact of the matter is that their support was crucil for your VCP/vietcong survival, else your country will be just another north and south korea like situation today, or better still united but under a capitalistic U.S BACKED south vietnamese government which to be honest would have been far more better for ordinary vietnamese in terms of development/living standard/growth/trade etc.

You should learn to put your biased/resentment/hatred for your rival and learn to acknowledge historical facts at least for your country's sake. WITHOUT THE SOVIETS AND CHINESE THERE WILL BE NO VCP IN VIETNAM TODAY FULL STOP. So blame them for your longg way, and subsequent sanctions/isolation (which made Vietnam lag soo much behind its SEA) neighbours, because if not for these two countries, Vietnam wouldnt have gone through all that to be honest.

China Contributed Substantially to Vietnam War Victory, Claims Scholar | Wilson Center
Chinese and Soviet involvement in Vietnam
Military History Online
- Chinese Support for North Vietnam during the Vietnam War: The Decisive Edge

Firstly, Without communist Soviet Union and communist China, there is no the Vietnam War. Americans fear Domino of communism, so it sought to prevent this in Vietnam.

Secondly, the US did not fight alone, it had the support directly from SK, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, the Philippines....
So why did we have to fight without the support indirectly from SU, China?

 

[Viva_Viet]

you shall stop posting such biased articles produced by chinese propaganda officers. only one thing is true: after north vietnam and soviets signed a friendship treaty in 1968, communist china stopped all supports and withdrew all personnel from vietnam.

by the way, bro, I was not a VC. moreover my father served in the south vietnamese navy. why vietnam is poor and backward today? well, there are many reasons I told several times here on PDF. sure, without foreign invasions and blinded domestic economic policy, vietnam today would have become prosperous as korea and japan. we virtually lost 100 years of economic development.

SK-JP are nothing but US's watching dogs. Pls dont compare the fatty dogs chained by the collars with a free gaunt wolf.

 

[frequency]

both sides lost.

U.S lost militarily and politically
Vietnam lost the opportunity to be a major economic powerhouse. which it's now just discovering how powerful a tool capitalism is.

Vietnam goal is to unite North and South.

US goal is to prevent North from achieving that goal.

American lost. Vietnam won.

 

[Galad]

USA has lost.Forty years ago "brave" USA soldiers(brave while murdering civilians) run away like dogs with tails between their legs from Vietnam.They run away after murdering so many Vietnamese people and till this day USA is not feeling any guilt for all the crimes committed during Vietnam War.

 

[frequency]

These kind of views expressed in this article is quite common for anti-VN people. @BoQ77 has already made a long thread to dispute it:

[1973-2015] How Vietnamese and American passed over the past ( Vietnam War)?

History has tell us that Chinese likes to burn their history books and make their own to replace those.

The burning of books and burying of scholars (traditional Chinese: 焚書坑儒; simplified Chinese: 焚书坑儒; pinyin: fén shū kēng rú) refers to the supposed burning of texts in 213 BC and burial alive of 460 Confucian scholars in 210 BC by the First Emperor of the Qin dynasty of ancient China. The event caused the loss of many philosophical treatises of the Hundred Schools of Thought. The official philosophy of government ("legalism") survived.

Burning of books and burying of scholars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

USA has lost.Forty years ago "brave" USA soldiers(brave while murdering civilians) run away like dogs with tails between their legs from Vietnam.They run away after murdering so many Vietnamese people and till this day USA is not feeling any guilt for all the crimes committed during Vietnam War.

Ever heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

WTH??? the weapons/help China and the soviet union provided was just a drop in the ocean for the Vietcong's? Lmao. I thought some Chinese members were being anti Vietnamese/biased when they said you people are an ungrateful bunch of people.

Truth is without the massive soviet and most of all Chinese support both in terms of weapons, tanks, artillery, weapons, logistics, manpower (there was tens of thousands of chinese soldiers/military advisers in vietnam , and some soviet union ones as well etc) the vietcong would have been decimated in a matter of months at best . So you have the Russians and Chinese to thank for your VCP survival , if not your country would still be divided into two or better still be unified under south Vietnamese U.S backed government, which wouldn't have been a bad thing IMO since it would have allowed Vietnam to develop much faster and be open to the world longgg ago.

In the absence of any outside intervention, South Vietnam would've been crushed in a few months. An unpopular, corrupt military dictatorship is just not capable of governing and just can't motivate the majority to sacrifice for their country, because the ordinary people don't think the military generals can truly represent them.

There is no country in the world that can survive for long, barring external intervention, without popular support.

The only reason China and Russia intervened is because it was South Vietnam, not North Vietnam that started the controversy by cancelling elections and installing military dictators.

 

[biendong]

In the absence of any outside intervention, South Vietnam would've been crushed in a few months. An unpopular, corrupt military dictatorship is just not capable of governing and just can't motivate the majority to sacrifice for their country, because the ordinary people don't think the military generals can truly represent them.

There is no country in the world that can survive for long, barring external intervention, without popular support.

The only reason China and Russia intervened is because it was South Vietnam, not North Vietnam that started the controversy by cancelling elections and installing military dictators.

you are fair and unbiased.

 

[mike2000 is back]

In the absence of any outside intervention, South Vietnam would've been crushed in a few months. An unpopular, corrupt military dictatorship is just not capable of governing and just can't motivate the majority to sacrifice for their country, because the ordinary people don't think the military generals can truly represent them.

There is no country in the world that can survive for long, barring external intervention, without popular support.

The only reason China and Russia intervened is because it was South Vietnam, not North Vietnam that started the controversy by cancelling elections and installing military dictators.

Who told you the MAJORITY OF SOUTH VIETNAMESE were against the south Vietnam government/U.S?? If so why did they fight so hard against their innocent/saint/uncorrupt commie vietcong in the north and later fled by the hundreds of thousands(probably millions if they all could.lol) when the vietcong invaded/captured the south?? Even today there are many south Vietnamese who regret losing the war against the commie vietcong. But they have no choice other than to live with it. It would have been the same had the south vietnamese won the war, the vietcong/northerners would have also resented them/be unhappy to live under their rule, but they would have had no toher choice than to accept their fate.

By the way, i was just stating fact to my good friend Viet who seem to think the Vietcong won the war single handedly, and soviet and Chinese support was just a small/insignificnt hep.loool So was just saying he was wrong, since without the MASSIVE Soviet and Chinese support both militarily and with manpower, there is NO WAY IN HEAVEN the vietcongs would have even stood a chance at all. So you have to read what i said correctly my man.

Moreover dont act as if China intervened/supported the Vietcong, just out of kindness/fairness(using as excuse the fact that the s.vietnamese government cancelled the elections results, so What? was it china's business?), Far from it as we all know, it was out of your own selfish interests. The vietnamese here themselves all know that, ask them, they wil tell you better.

 

[biendong]

There is many different opinion.

China and USA won on (hot) Vietnam war.

Peking 1972. They shaked hands in back of South and North Viets.

 

[mike2000 is back]

SK-JP are nothing but US's watching dogs. Pls dont compare the fatty dogs chained by the collars with a free gaunt wolf.

A free gaunt wolf still running after slave Japans ODA aid/investment and S.korea investments even today? You are poorer than even the philippines for GODS SAKE. you vietnamese ought to calm down and be more pragmatic, always trying to show you can take on the world is just being too reactive, doesnt help at all. In geo politics you should NEVER SHOW ALL YOUR CARDS OPENLY, and never really say what you think publicly. Geo politics is just a game, and you have to know how to play it, making a mistake can be really fatal for a country, just like Vietnam found out these past decades. If you dont learn from mistakes you are bound to repeat it bro.

Go to any country abroad, and see how S.koreans/Jpanese citizens are respected, and go and see how Vietnamese citizens are treated. Moral of the story is that: what matters at the end of the day is making your country rich,developed and prosperous. Doesnt matter if a cat is white or black as long as it catches the mice. Deng xiaoping was right about that. So keep deluding yourself in thinking you are a 'GAUNT wolf'.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Who told you the MAJORITY OF SOUTH VIETNAMESE were against the south Vietnam government/U.S?? If so why did they fight so hard against their innocent/saint/uncorrupt commie vietcong in the north and later fled by the hundreds of thousands(probably millions if they all could.lol) when the vietcong invaded/captured the south?? Even today there are many south Vietnamese who regret losing the war against the commie vietcong. But they have no choice other than to live with it. It would have been the same had the south vietnamese won the war, the vietcong/northerners would have also resented them/be unhappy to live under their rule, but they would have had no toher choice than to accept their fate.

By the way, i was just stating fact to my good friend Viet who seem to think the Vietcong won the war single handedly, and soviet and Chinese support was just a small/insignificnt hep.loool So was just saying he was wrong, since without the MASSIVE Soviet and Chinese support both militarily and with manpower, there is NO WAY IN HEAVEN the vietcongs would have even stood a chance at all. So you have to read what i said correctly my man.

Moreover dont act as if China intervened/supported the Vietcong, just out of kindness/fairness(using as excuse the fact that the s.vietnamese government cancelled the elections results, so What? was it china's business?), Far from it as we all know, it was out of your own selfish interests. The vietnamese here themselves all know that, ask them, they wil tell you better.

its simple - at least a very sizable minority in the South was against the government (with the majority being apathetic) because there was a pro-Northern uprising in the South, called the Vietcong, while there was no pro-Southern uprising in the North. Most of the atrocities in the war didn't take place against Northern Vietnamese, it took place in Southern Vietnam's Vietcong contested areas. The US military never had boots on the ground in the north.

I'm surprised that you really think that a military dictatorship can gather popular support. There has never been an example of a popularly supported military dictatorship in all of history.