Former DG ISI demanded resignation and threatened with Martial Law - Nawaz Sharif

[gangsta_rap]

It is not in ISI's place or capacity to threaten a coup.
only the army can threaten a coup but that era is long gone

truth be told ISI tried to keep nawaja in power in 1999 and butted heads with the army during then

 

[The Accountant]

Imran Khan made a big mistake letting this crook go and now he has become
another Altaf Hussain. He will keep spitting venom against Pak till he goes to hell.

He is doing the right thing exposing NS.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Why you include PTI.
Infact PTI is enjoying, today no press conference from any PTI minister against NS/PMLN.
Its a direct fight now, PTI all to gain from here no doubt.

They have gained I agree. If there was any friction between PTI and establishment, they’re truly on one page now. PTI needs establishment backing for life support, what better way to assure that then Nawaz’s headlong collision with them. But in future there might be a big political cost to PTI, already our PM has been made out to be some sort of irrelevant puppet by the opposition, even Sheikh Rasheed speaks directly on behalf of the establishment and addresses directly the opposition, hardly even any lip service is left for IK. He’s very much in the background of an ongoing dispute.

Personally I couldn't care less what system of governance we have as long as it's effective. I live in a parliamentary democracy. Every 5 years I get the chance to vote who'll mismanage the country. Accountability is non existent, political opposition is often opposition for the sake of it, not for the betterment of the country. If we could have effective, competent technocrats and no elections - i wouldn't miss them. Even the government you vote for will do something you don't want them too.

Democracy produces stability, a viable distribution of power, and if done right it also produces a relatively high degree of accountability. And it was one of the founding principles of Pakistan, as well as being prescribed for us as Muslims.

You live in the UK, and I assume these things are reflections of yours on the system here, can you seriously say that this system is not better, and does not produce better outcomes, than the vast majority of countries on earth? Sure it needs improvement, but it is several parsecs beyond Pakistan’s hybrid regime.

Pakistan doesn't have democracy, never had! Just because people voted doesn't mean it is democracy. Democracy is meant to deliver for the people, not for the elected to become filthy rich.

What I would like to see: Direct Election of Leader (after complete vetting and security clearances of all candidates by all institutions followed by debates and questioning of candidates in public domain) - majority vote taker nationwide gets to lead (unlike American system that's not based on nationwide votes).



Read my post again. Generals of past groomed and protected Nawaz scum, whereas current Generals are not interested in protecting him.



Too late for this 'will not take dictation' mantra. After taking the feeders from generals sitting in their laps to come to the top, the scum can't become nazriyati. Changa Manga nizriyati

You are blind hence you can't see!

IK's primary concern is not democracy, his primary concern is delivery for the wellbeing of general public. China doesn't have democracy and it has risen as a superpower within less than 3 decades! Democracy is not the be all and end all ...

I agree with some of what you have said, as for direct democracy, direct elections of a head of state etc. These ideas are fine, but they need to be embedded in a suitable system, I’d refer you to this thread. We’ve got a good discussions going on about this subject in this and other threads:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/parliamentary-supremacy-in-pakistan.546157/

 

[mourning sage]

Military establishment and civil bureaucracy deserves him. They let traitors out under secret deals and then whine.

Now you will see PTM, PML-N, JUI-F, PMAP of achakzai all coming together.

India will take advantage of this instability.

Good luck.

I always wondered how Altaf Hussain fled the country, aligned himself with anti state elements (read India) and wrecked havoc in Pakistan.

Turns out, this is how. The establishment created him on its own. I wasn't born then to see it happen, but this saga unfolded right in front of my very eyes.

Against IK's wishes, COAS allowed him to flee. look at this moron now becoming a national security threat.

 

[IceCold]

Why you include PTI.
Infact PTI is enjoying, today no press conference from any PTI minister against NS/PMLN.
Its a direct fight now, PTI all to gain from here no doubt.

You guys seriously take this joker at face value? Afreen ha. Jo banda khud marshal Law ki paidawar ho, woh kya bashan da ga about establishment involvement. I mean seriously jab tak PMLN jeeti rahi tab tak sab theak tha or jab har gai to establishment kharab ho gai? Wah ji wah.
As for direct fight, please continue so but wait you dont fight battles while sitting comfortably away in UK. So when is your great Messiah coming back to Pakistan to lead this fight?

 

[Ghessan]

They have gained I agree. If there was any friction between PTI and establishment, they’re truly on one page now. PTI needs establishment backing for life support, what better way to assure that then Nawaz’s headlong collision with them. But in future there might be a big political cost to PTI, already our PM has been made out to be some sort of irrelevant puppet by the opposition, even Sheikh Rasheed speaks directly on behalf of the establishment and addresses directly the opposition, hardly even any lip service is left for IK. He’s very much in the background of an ongoing dispute.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/parliamentary-supremacy-in-pakistan.546157/

what are his plans the way he has come out is unknown but it seems his talks with the establishment is not successful.
is he himself nailing the coffin?
i don't know his decision or at whose dictation he is doing it but in the end if we get rid of him what else can be good for Pakistan.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

I can actually believe this happened. There were rumors flying around during the time that some generals and ISI officers were talking aboutadoing a coup.

Probably, the only reason why it never occurred was likely because, like you suggested, the army chief, and the army in general is sick of coups.

Funnily enough, whereas Pakistan is becoming more and more democratic, India is becoming more and more authoritarian. I wouldn't be surprised if India ends up being a dictatorship in a decade or so (though I doubt it'll happen).

Zaheer ul Islam was morally right in what he demanded Nawazu came to power through Dhandhli and thats why he demanded a resignation but he had no constitutional right...

And since it was a wrong move in first place Raheel Sharif sent him home...

And before someone asks what proof I have that Nawazu did rigging it was the Head teacher of High School in our Village he said when he was posted in a another constituency people with Guns came and made him open the boxes... and they belonged to the winning MNA...

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

You guys seriously take this joker at face value? Afreen ha. Jo banda khud marshal Law ki paidawar ho, woh kya bashan da ga about establishment involvement. I mean seriously jab tak PMLN jeeti rahi tab tak sab theak tha or jab har gai to establishment kharab ho gai? Wah ji wah.
As for direct fight, please continue so but wait you dont fight battles while sitting comfortably away in UK. So when is your great Messiah coming back to Pakistan to lead this fight?

Funny thing is he used to lick Zias Balls and now he is calling him a dictator

 

[Ghessan]

Zaheer ul Islam was morally right in what he demanded Nawazu came to power through Dhandhli and thats why he demanded a resignation but he had no constitutional right...

And since it was a wrong move in first place Raheel Sharif sent him home...

And before someone asks what proof I have that Nawazu did rigging it was the Head teacher of High School in our Village he said when he was posted in a another constituency people with Guns came and made him open the boxes... and they belonged to the winning MNA...

if they don't master in rigging then who else, although PPP also do the shit in interior sindh, but the way PMLN manage to counter the opening of constituencies by controlling every single department including local election offices, NADRA etc. could not let higher court give a clear cut verdict.
they have every department corrupted-in their pockets and today we see the bureaucracy the way it is.
this same bureaucracy is giving hell to the current Punjab govt.

 

[313ghazi]

They have gained I agree. If there was any friction between PTI and establishment, they’re truly on one page now. PTI needs establishment backing for life support, what better way to assure that then Nawaz’s headlong collision with them. But in future there might be a big political cost to PTI, already our PM has been made out to be some sort of irrelevant puppet by the opposition, even Sheikh Rasheed speaks directly on behalf of the establishment and addresses directly the opposition, hardly even any lip service is left for IK. He’s very much in the background of an ongoing dispute.



Democracy produces stability, a viable distribution of power, and if done right it also produces a relatively high degree of accountability. And it was one of the founding principles of Pakistan, as well as being prescribed for us as Muslims.

You live in the UK, and I assume these things are reflections of yours on the system here, can you seriously say that this system is not better, and does not produce better outcomes, than the vast majority of countries on earth? Sure it needs improvement, but it is several parsecs beyond Pakistan’s hybrid regime.



I agree with some of what you have said, as for direct democracy, direct elections of a head of state etc. These ideas are fine, but they need to be embedded in a suitable system, I’d refer you to this thread. We’ve got a good discussions going on about this subject in this and other threads:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/parliamentary-supremacy-in-pakistan.546157/

I assume you also live in the UK at the moment right? The key point to what you said was "if done rightly". In the UK it's currently not being done correctly. I feel jaded by the political process.

The conservative party is run for the best interest of the extremly wealthy, not the rest of the country. It's been hijacked by it's right wing and they've executed political coup after political coup to get us to a no-deal Brexit. They've also severally mismanaged this whole COVID-19 issue.

The Labour party was hijacked by unions and the left wing Momentum movement. I admired Jeremy Corbyn but he couldn't control his party, The centralists and the centre right amongst Labour launched open sabotage campaigns against him and it led to Labour snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in the election before last and then being thoroughly trounced in the last election. Kier Starmer is a stuffed suit, no ideas, no opposition - he might as well be a Conservative MP.

The Lib Dems are politically extinct - the nationalist SNP have more of a say in the British parliament than they do. I forsee another 10-15 years of conservative governments, all working towards the best interests of big business and their political financers.

Go outside and look around. The numbers of homeless is up significantly, the working poor survive on handouts from Food banks. Our local community is funding several hundred families groceries on a weekly basis. Crime is up, police understaffed, businesses closing - there's no good news.

Democracy is no untouchable Gold standard of governance. I work in IT and this industry has some great principles everyone else should adapt. One of those is giving new ideas a chance, there is no fear of change, ideas come thick and fast, they get analysed, trialed, adapted or dropped. It doesn't cause unstability because all the ideas are aimed towards the same principles and goals. We need that sort of thinking in governance.

I personally don't care if the country I live in is a democracy or not. I want it well governed. Germany is doing pretty well, why can't we have our democracy working like theirs?

 

[R Wing]

Imran Khan made a big mistake letting this crook go and now he has become
another Altaf Hussain. He will keep spitting venom against Pak till he goes to hell.

Something about the timing

Fazal dharna wrapped up
IK stayed in power
COAS got extension
White House visit before that

Nawaz relaxing in London

 

[Mav3rick]

Imran Khan made a big mistake letting this crook go and now he has become
another Altaf Hussain. He will keep spitting venom against Pak till he goes to hell.

But the more important thing, similar to Altaf Hussain too, is whether he is telling the truth or not. Because if he is indeed telling the truth then it is a massive revelation.......if he is telling a lie then well, as a politician it is their primary language.

 

[Jazzbot]

I really like the way this is unfolding, I want a lot more from NS. Establishment needs to reap what they have sown, they are the ones who made deals after deals with this traitor and let him come to power several times through back doors.

The more he barks now, the better it is for democracy. I hope establishment will learn their lessons the harsh way this time and won't let any such crook come to power again.

By the way, PML-N can kiss good bye to the dreams of ever coming back to power.

 

[Patriot forever]

They have gained I agree. If there was any friction between PTI and establishment, they’re truly on one page now. PTI needs establishment backing for life support, what better way to assure that then Nawaz’s headlong collision with them. But in future there might be a big political cost to PTI, already our PM has been made out to be some sort of irrelevant puppet by the opposition, even Sheikh Rasheed speaks directly on behalf of the establishment and addresses directly the opposition, hardly even any lip service is left for IK. He’s very much in the background of an ongoing dispute.



Democracy produces stability, a viable distribution of power, and if done right it also produces a relatively high degree of accountability. And it was one of the founding principles of Pakistan, as well as being prescribed for us as Muslims.

You live in the UK, and I assume these things are reflections of yours on the system here, can you seriously say that this system is not better, and does not produce better outcomes, than the vast majority of countries on earth? Sure it needs improvement, but it is several parsecs beyond Pakistan’s hybrid regime.



I agree with some of what you have said, as for direct democracy, direct elections of a head of state etc. These ideas are fine, but they need to be embedded in a suitable system, I’d refer you to this thread. We’ve got a good discussions going on about this subject in this and other threads:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/parliamentary-supremacy-in-pakistan.546157/

Sir just the withdrawal symptoms of boot licking for so long. Blackmailing the state for NRO, and looking to gain sympathy of external backers to bring his family back to power. He never had any genuine political struggle to begin with, a political party made and handed over to him, no wonder old habits die hard as he is expecting the same from other side of border this time.
And some people on this forum constantly trying to gain the moral high ground for their flawed political beliefs, when their is none in this whole fiasco. Just a repeat of dawn leaks and yet some posters don't learn

 

[The Eagle]

what an utter rubbish claim .....

NS is claiming that he received this message but after refusing to ISI Chief NS met with Army Chief officially and meeting was made public ..... Army Chief on NS request made two separate meetings with IK and Tahir ul Qadri and acted as Mediator and not only this he [partially] succeeded in his attempt as Tahir Ul Qadri after few days end his sit-in protest.

If what NS claiming is true then why he asked Raheel Sharif to act as Mediator b/w him and IK+TUQ at that time .... ???

Source 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

As the day passes, it makes me more confident that why a person like me should stay away from the politics by the likes of him. Both of the Zardari & Sharif families are here to loot, earn & sell the nation on every medium. This day wasn't far when Sharif has to turn into yet another Altaf Hussain. As long as their rule was secure, most of them have been kneeling down & begging but since the atmosphere is changed & Military is no more into Politics; cry babies as such are gone bonkers & maligning military as a last ditch. It is of no surprise whether Nawaz or Altaf or any other anti Pakistan sellout starts targeting Military and try to malign Pakistan on International Forum. What a shame that we have such people in Pakistan. On other hand, Nawaz Sharif is already a done deal for his handlers and those who invested into him, therefore, the most vile, offensive & treacherous moves are made. The whole family knows that none of them are coming back and neither will return looted money hence, they need a sabotage & unrest and so such kind of propaganda to keep pressure and stay away from proceedings. I am not disappointed for what he did or Zardari or any other politicians as most of them are meant to sell their conscience as per occasion and they have no faith but it is really disheartening to see that people still support them.