Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20

[MilSpec]

Hi,

Simpletons not allowed here----. It does not work that way----. The engineers can look at a design----the ability and capability of the manufacturer's engineering and research infra structure and come up with a picture that can tell them what a certain item could do.

They don't need to wait for deployment.

And the genius you are defending here is privy to the aforementioned data? to pass a sweeping statement as the entire IAF is toast to an unproven, un deployed aircraft. But when the same references are drawn to T50... then it's a substandard craft by the same group.....Your logic seems quite legit.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Assuming it is 60% as capable as the real -35, it still beats all Indian air force 4th and 4.5th gen jets hands down and from a huge distance!! That's what you need to be worried about.

Brilliant Sir, ... This is not going to keep the Indian insults in check but they would get more insecure and start to really troll.

WoW.

You have no idea in which world you living.

Where he is living is a known Super Power not a Wana be.

 

[MastanKhan]

And the genius you are defending here is privy to the aforementioned data? to pass a sweeping statement as the entire IAF is toast to an unproven, un deployed aircraft. But when the same references are drawn to T50... then it's a substandard craft by the same group.....Your logic seems quite legit.

Pappy,

I am not a person who is disrespectful to others out of habbit ----but as you are acting like someone without any commonsense then just let me says that just because you can talk clever does not mean that you are talking sense.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to make that assumption---. The Chinese engineering and electronic capabilities are known---the physical design and aspect of the aircraft is visible---you already have " a known "---that is your own aircraft ( F35 )----you know what your aircraft can do----you can easily deduce what a "copy" will do by already knowing the engineering capability and infra structure of the copy maker.

From your responses---I think you are an "ILLETERATE" person----I say this because it seems like you don't have exposure to books other than your education material otherwise you won't be talking senseless.

 

[MilSpec]

Pappy,

I am not a person who is disrespectful to others out of habbit ----but as you are acting like someone without any commonsense then just let me says that just because you can talk clever does not mean that you are talking sense.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to make that assumption---. The Chinese engineering and electronic capabilities are known---the physical design and aspect of the aircraft is visible---you already have " a known "---that is your own aircraft ( F35 )----you know what your aircraft can do----you can easily deduce what a "copy" will do by already knowing the engineering capability and infra structure of the copy maker.

From your responses---I think you are an "ILLETERATE" person----I say this because it seems like you don't have exposure to books other than your education material otherwise you won't be talking senseless.

Well sir,

From your responses you indeed are a genius along with the respected member who you are trying to rescue... What I am I to say... it will be indeed a great development for PAF if one platform could defeat all IAF platforms...... Good luck with that...

As far as my literacy is concerned... I wouldn't want to discuss that... I am not in the game deliberately humiliating others..

Pappy,


You don't need to be a rocket scientist to make that assumption---. The Chinese engineering and electronic capabilities are known---the physical design and aspect of the aircraft is visible---you already have " a known "---that is your own aircraft ( F35 )----you know what your aircraft can do----you can easily deduce what a "copy" will do by already knowing the engineering capability and infra structure of the copy maker.

El Hefe,

Now as far as technological quality is concerned, if Airframes could defeat adversaries, then sure, J31 would be capable of taking on f35's too...
As far as comparative analysis is concerned, if you evaluation of comparing a mig29 power plant is same as f35 with an un proven radar, no thrust vectoring, no information of type, quality or nature of composites, then sure you have got a winner on your hands....

Now from your vastly superior logical stand point, would you be gracious enough to supplant the extension of same logic to a platform like T50 PAKFA... most likely no... And the reason perhaps is

 

[Donatello]

During one of the Shaheen series of Exercises.

This must a fake photoshopped picture. There is no way PAF got any of that kind DACT experience. Plus Indian SU30MKIs are made from a vedic mineral mined from the Saturn's moon Titan. So you won't be able to see them.

Well sir,

From your responses you indeed are a genius along with the respected member who you are trying to rescue... What I am I to say... it will be indeed a great development for PAF if one platform could defeat all IAF platforms...... Good luck with that...

As far as my literacy is concerned... I wouldn't want to discuss that... I am not in the game deliberately humiliating others..



El Hefe,

Now as far as technological quality is concerned, if Airframes could defeat adversaries, then sure, J31 would be capable of taking on f35's too...
As far as comparative analysis is concerned, if you evaluation of comparing a mig29 power plant is same as f35 with an un proven radar, no thrust vectoring, no information of type, quality or nature of composites, then sure you have got a winner on your hands....

Now from your vastly superior logical stand point, would you be gracious enough to supplant the extension of same logic to a platform like T50 PAKFA... most likely no... And the reason perhaps is

It is not about whether the F35 can beat J-31 or vice versa, but rather who gets what first in Indo-Pak scenario and what that technology can do against the typical 4th and 4.5 gen aircraft currently in service.

Do you really think SU30 or Mirage 2000 have a chance against the purported all aspect stealth J-31?

See, i've always maintained, the true stealth platforms are going to be like the nukes.......you need one to balance the other.....otherwise you have no choice. 40 stealth aircraft will do hell lot of more damage than 100 f-16s or Sukhois.

And the genius you are defending here is privy to the aforementioned data? to pass a sweeping statement as the entire IAF is toast to an unproven, un deployed aircraft. But when the same references are drawn to T50... then it's a substandard craft by the same group.....Your logic seems quite legit.

Buddy, no need to blow all your valves there to release the steam........J-31/J-20/T-50 are all unproven and in development phase. The question is, who is going to get there first? That matters a lot.
Secondly, the initial mathematics and materials research for a basic stealth platform is available in literature since decades. No surprises and gifts for guessing why all stealth aircraft have no curves but rather straight razor sharp edges. Once someone has had the Eureka moment.....it is easy to build on.
I know that the surface has to be a certain geometric shape. I also know that engines must be covered fully, and that all weapons must be carried internally. So where lies the problem? Fine USA did it, but why waste your time to come up with research that will yield the same result? The third is, electronics, particularly the radar and the optics. And that is where China/Russia and West can get creative.

 

[MilSpec]

Do you really think SU30 or Mirage 2000 have a chance against the purported all aspect stealth J-31?

See, i've always maintained, the true stealth platforms are going to be like the nukes.......you need one to balance the other.....otherwise you have no choice. 40 stealth aircraft will do hell lot of more damage than 100 f-16s or Sukhois.

I don't know... And that is a honest answer... I dont know the level of observability, service rate, radar range, radar capability, of the J31 to tell you what the chance is....
that's it.

Yes 40 f22's might do a lot more damage than 100 4th gen aircraft's, but that's f22, with immense amount of it's capabilities listed. Once j31's have that kind of data to review , I will comprehensively answer your query.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Can someone please point me to the post describing the J-20 presentation? I am too lazy to search the whole thread for it. Thanks (and apologies) in advance.

 

[Donatello]

I don't know... And that is a honest answer... I dont know the level of observability, service rate, radar range, radar capability, of the J31 to tell you what the chance is....
that's it.

Yes 40 f22's might do a lot more damage than 100 4th gen aircraft's, but that's f22, with immense amount of it's capabilities listed. Once j31's have that kind of data to review , I will comprehensively answer your query.

Chinese are developing J-31 for a full stealth purpose, and it will be that. Because they already have plenty of 4th and 4.5 gen options. Whether the final iteration is called J-31 or J-32 or J super dooper dragon, that i don't know.

Please look at the history of F/A22 and how it evolved to where it is ...or even the F-35 that was called the JSF for a reason for a very long time.

What you see today in J-31 and T-50 is no where near the final form. It's more like getting things off the ground.....proverbially.

 

[MilSpec]

Secondly, the initial mathematics and materials research for a basic stealth platform is available in literature since decades. No surprises and gifts for guessing why all stealth aircraft have no curves but rather straight razor sharp edges. Once someone has had the Eureka moment.....it is easy to build on.

Is it so, Please educate me the type of CFC fabrics, types of resins and pre-pregs used specifically for reflection and absorbtion as according to all is out there for decades...

I know that the surface has to be a certain geometric shape. I also know that engines must be covered fully, and that all weapons must be carried internally. So where lies the problem? Fine USA did it, but why waste your time to come up with research that will yield the same result? The third is, electronics, particularly the radar and the optics. And that is where China/Russia and West can get creative.

Because your logic is flawed from the get go... look carefully at both you J31, f35 and f22 Raptor and you will see intricate bezier curves and B-splines throughout... It's not just straight edges dear... if you are going to look at at a f22 and remodel it and miss one single inch your entire radar reflection profile will be compromised... and thus design and development.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

This must a fake photoshopped picture. There is no way PAF got any of that kind DACT experience. Plus Indian SU30MKIs are made from a vedic mineral mined from the Saturn's moon Titan. So you won't be able to see them.

Seriously funny

 

[MastanKhan]

Well sir,

From your responses you indeed are a genius along with the respected member who you are trying to rescue... What I am I to say... it will be indeed a great development for PAF if one platform could defeat all IAF platforms...... Good luck with that...

As far as my literacy is concerned... I wouldn't want to discuss that... I am not in the game deliberately humiliating others..



El Hefe,

Now as far as technological quality is concerned, if Airframes could defeat adversaries, then sure, J31 would be capable of taking on f35's too...
As far as comparative analysis is concerned, if you evaluation of comparing a mig29 power plant is same as f35 with an un proven radar, no thrust vectoring, no information of type, quality or nature of composites, then sure you have got a winner on your hands....

Now from your vastly superior logical stand point, would you be gracious enough to supplant the extension of same logic to a platform like T50 PAKFA... most likely no... And the reason perhaps is

Hi,

No----let us discuss your literacy---because that is where the problem is----. You can only talk about and understand what you know---if you don't have the knowledge---.

As for T50 PAKFA---that would be an extremely potent aircraft. That will be a game changer.

As for the power plant---it is least of the issue in a BVR combat----and with an aircraft the size of J31---a twin engine has enough power and ability----.

TVC does not do much---except to make you a sitting duck---until and unless you are an F 22 on which the opponent will not get an electronic lock even with in visual range---your best chance is to shoot it down with bullets---.

You talk about TVC---at what speed would you apply TVC---and to gain what advantage.

With the current known scenario about the J31 and the Chinese industrial complex---its capabilities will be within 70-85% of the F35.

Like the JF 17 BLK 1 is 80% of the capabilities of the F 16---but with the upcoming aesa----it will be superior to the F 16 blk 52's that we have.

 

[Donatello]

Is it so, Please educate me the type of CFC fabrics, types of resins and pre-pregs used specifically for reflection and absorbtion as according to all is out there for decades...



Because your logic is flawed from the get go... look carefully at both you J31, f35 and f22 Raptor and you will see intricate bezier curves and B-splines throughout... It's not just straight edges dear... if you are going to look at at a f22 and remodel it and miss one single inch your entire radar reflection profile will be compromised... and thus design and development.

This is what the YF-22, F-22's initial design looked like...and it was YF-22 that won even though the YF-23 looked more promising:

Notice the standard, F-18 type engine inlets and tail.

As i said earlier, what you see in J-31 today is not what it will be 10 years from now......these are prototypes for the initial production prototypes.

Here Nashir Gowadia....an Indian American who worked on the B2 bomber....a true stealth design....and ended up selling undisclosed amounts of research to the Swiss/Chinese/Israeli buyers.
Noshir Gowadia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point being, we don't know how much of even the classified stuff got stolen and will end up in Russian/Chinese designs.

 

[Super Falcon]

I have reservations we think think and think talk and tour this what we did with j 10

We went usa to buy new 72 f 16 mushy days
reduce to 18 what a waste and for what said at that time j 10 china ofered now no j 10

 

[MastanKhan]

I have reservations we think think and think talk and tour this what we did with j 10

We went usa to buy new 72 f 16 mushy days
reduce to 18 what a waste and for what said at that time j 10 china ofered now no j 10

Hi,

Paf decided that there was no threat from india and the peace deal would be signed----.

The problem is with the Pakistani public----.

After the Karachi episode---the public should have forced the paf the execute the base commander and area commander and base security officers by a firing squad----as well as the air chief marshall in at that time-----.

 

[MilSpec]

This is what the YF-22, F-22's initial design looked like...and it was YF-22 that won even though the YF-23 looked more promising:

Notice the standard, F-18 type engine inlets and tail.

As i said earlier, what you see in J-31 today is not what it will be 10 years from now......these are prototypes for the initial production prototypes.

Here Nashir Gowadia....an Indian American who worked on the B2 bomber....a true stealth design....and ended up selling undisclosed amounts of research to the Swiss/Chinese/Israeli buyers.
Noshir Gowadia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Point being, we don't know how much of even the classified stuff got stolen and will end up in Russian/Chinese designs.

I thought you were going to educate me in stealth composite material info which has been available for decades...

Hi,

With the current known scenario about the J31 and the Chinese industrial complex---its capabilities will be within 70-85% of the F35.

And how did you evaluate that, based on what information, which processes stand out to you, which quality protocols do you see comparable to Lockheed or Boeing, which materials that they employ are comparable to ones on US jets and how would you even compare the two when I am pretty sure you are not privy to either of them...but then its just me...

Also a Jet that is sure fire recipe to toast IAF, how many have PAF ordered again?