Foreign Policy of Dignity

[muse]

Friends:


We on this forum have been in the lead in warning about the dangers to Pakistan, if we should become a party to the multiple conflicts that are sure to occur in the Middle East -- We, this forum, have been advising our readers to consider all the issues in depth and not be led astray by this trash talk of Islamic this or that, that disguised in this kind of talk are thousands of dangers and t requires that Pakistan support Wahabi princes instead of the ordinary people who want liberty and the wahabi princes who seek to deny them liberty --

Below is an editorial from a national paper published today -- forum readers will note that the editorial raises issues first raised on this forum -- See "Bahrain national Guard to recruit soldiers from Pakistan" and "Arab not Indian" threads on the strategic issues board

Please inform yourselves and influence others to become aware of the danger to Pakistan, if Pakistan continue to side with Wahabi princes and not with the people:





In tatters: Pakistan’s Middle East policy
By Yunas Samad
Published: March 31, 2011

Pakistan’s policy for the Middle East, which has been founded on Islamic solidarity, is now in danger of being left in tatters. In reality, it has been in support of the political status quo; that is, the rule of autocratic leaders backed by petro-dollars. It has blinded the authorities, not only in this country, but elsewhere as well, to the fact that great wealth and breakneck speed of development can lead to Arab exceptionalism. Today, this is threatened by the tide of democratisation, the demand for azadi by a youthful, rising middle-class, which is sweeping the Arab world. The West views this development through the lens of interest and yearns that this wave of democracy engulf its regional enemies — Iran, Syria and Libya — who have been a thorn in its side. Hence, its active involvement in the overthrow of Qaddafi. The West has also intervened to protect it petroleum interests by backing what it hopes will be the future government of the country.

However, the reality is far more complex and the uncomfortable truth is that the wave of democratisation ignited by the occupation of Tahrir Square is encircling Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, the linchpin of western strategic interest in the region. Eruptions in Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan and the more muted demands in Saudi Arabia itself, are indicative of regional resonance and the significance of the demand for democratisation. The contradiction in the West’s support for democracy stands exposed. This is because not only is it muted in its support for pro-democracy movements in these countries, it also does nothing to goad the regimes towards reform. The question that hangs in the air is, how long will these potentates and autocrats remain in power?

Saudi Arabia has drawn a line in the sand and, like Qaddafi, will use force to suppress the tide for democracy within its borders and in neighbouring states. The sending in of troops to Bahrain under the pretext of Iranian influence is stirring up the Shia majority and seems to be a desperate attempt to prevent the tide of democracy from entering the Arabian Peninsula. This is a futile act, like King Canute commanding the sea to go back, and is likely to radicalise the demands for democracy into demands for a republic. If regimes are unwilling to reform, then the danger of revolution becomes more significant.

The Pakistan military has seen secondment to the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia as comfortable and profitable sinecures under the guise of Islamic solidarity. However, now, Pakistanis are being recruited as mercenaries, to suppress the demands for democracy, by increasingly desperate autocrats who don’t have the confidence and loyalty of their own armed forces. Qaddafi recruits mercenaries from Africa to fight off demands for freedom and Bahrain turns to Pakistan. No one knows what the next page in history will show and how developments in the Middle East will pan out. The dam may burst and demands for democracy may lead to reform, or they may be suppressed and gestate into more furious uprisings, only time will tell. However, for Pakistan, the danger of acting as mercenaries for these regimes may result in it becoming the enemy of the people. If change comes, Pakistan may find that it has backed the wrong side and, keeping that in mind, it needs to develop a more sensitive understanding of the momentous developments taking place, and not view them from the Saudi perspective of seeing the movement in Sunni-Shia terms.

The tide is turning and Pakistan needs to be aware of the very real possibility that if these regimes topple, those who come to power may view Pakistan in a negative light. Hence the need for Islamabad to perhaps start hedging its bets.

 

[Mutee]

Mr muse we don't follow the followers of Abdul wahab because even his brother revolted against him (u must be knowing that since u reject adhiths )plus we know our deen completely however you have no right to call them bad if you yourself rejects ahdiths and act disrespectful when someone quotes them I have no respect for you to stop preaching now ask someone to give me infraction this is what u liberals do

 

[muse]

Below are comments of the Premier and the President -- you will note that for all his faults, the Premier is far more cognizant that the hardline against the people will fail and he cannot support it:


Pakistan hails Bahrain bid for reconciliation
By Zia Khan
Published: March 30, 2011

Zardari says it is important that restraint is exercised by all.
ISLAMABAD:

Pakistan’s top leaders on Tuesday expressed concern on situation unfolding in the Arab world and announced support for steps being taken by Gulf rulers to curb what appears to be a violent quest for change by their publics.

“Pakistan is deeply concerned over the situation developing in North Africa, Middle East and other parts of the Arab world which could be extremely detrimental to the overall interests of stability, order and peace of the Ummah,” said Gilani during a meeting with visiting Bahrain Foreign Minister Sheikh Khalid Bin Ahmed Bin Mohamed Al-Khalifa.

“Pakistan’s position on these matters is based on the universally recognised principles of respect for the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of states as well as non-intervention and non-interference.”

Gilani’s comments were resonated by President Asif Ali Zardari at a separate meeting with the top diplomat of the Arab country.

“Pakistan desires peace, security and stability in Bahrain and indeed in the whole of the Middle East,” President Zardari told the visiting minister.

“Pakistan believes that it will be dangerous for regional peace and stability if the system was destabilised one way or the other,” he said.

The president said that it was important that restraint was exercised by all and violence avoided.

He expressed hope that the government and people of Bahrain would soon be able to overcome all difficulties.

Pakistan also welcomed the steps being taken for reconciliation in Bahrain.

Later Minister of State Hina Rabbani Khar at a separate meeting with her Bahranian counterpart expressed confidence that Bahrain would be able to overcome the present difficulties in the spirit of security, peace and reconciliation.

Pakistan has welcomed the initiative of King of Bahrain for an inclusive dialogue with all segments of the society to promote harmony and reconciliation.

Published in The Express Tribune, March 30th, 2011.

 

[Yeti]

I have heard that 10,000 Pakistani's serve with the Bahraini security forces what would be their fate if the present sunni led goverment were to be toppled? is it worth putting all your eggs in one basket?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Does the Pakistani Army support the hiring of Pakistani soldiers as mercenaries? That is, could a PA man obtain a "leave of absence" to go to Bahrain for a year or two, and then return to the PA, regaining his former rank and seniority?

 

[muse]

Negative. Generally speaking, those recruited are rather young, strong and show an aptitude. Now, as a way of winning support of the army, the argument is made that retired personnel may be recruited and have a source of income other than their pensions.

However, with that said, there are many former Pakistan army soldiers in a variety of uniformed jobs in the Gulf

TS, see "Bahrain wants to recruit..." thread on this board -- also see "Arab not Indian"

 

[muse]

Saudi Nukes in Gulf

31 Mar 2011

Overlooked in the welter of fast moving events throughout the Arab world was a Saudi Arabian call for transforming the six-nation Gulf Cooperation Council into "an entity identical to the (27-nation) European Union" -- plus nuclear weapons.

Saudi Arabia has grown impatient "Waiting for Godot." Samuel Beckett's famous play depicts the "meaninglessness of life," with its repetitive plot, where nothing much happens. In Saudi eyes, that's Iran and its secret nuclear weapons program. And eye-drop Western sanctions have done zip to deter Iran's aging theocrats.

Iran began nuclear research with French assistance in the 1960s. In 1972, Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi told this reporter that Iran would one day be a nuclear power. Britain had relinquished all its geopolitical responsibilities east of Suez in 1968.

Under the Nixon Doctrine that followed the British withdrawal from the Persian Gulf, the Shahanshah ("King of Kings") became the "Guardian" (and gendarme) from the Strait of Hormuz to Kuwait.

The religious fanatics who succeeded the shah have similar ambitions -- this time to spread their brand of religious extremism. A prime target is Bahrain, a tiny island linked to Saudi Arabia by a 16-mile causeway, which is also home port for the U.S. 5th Fleet, and where 70 percent of the population of 1.2 million are Shiite Muslims (as in Iran).

Saudi Arabia, answering an appeal from the Bahraini monarch, dispatched some 1,500 troops and armored vehicles across the causeway to guard vital installations while local law enforcement coped with daily demonstrations and riots.

When the Arab volcano began erupting Jan. 18 in Tunisia and spread political lava through Libya, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Bahrain and Oman, the powers that be in the West fell silent, evidently prepared to ditch erstwhile friends and allies. The lesson wasn't lost on the Saudis.

It wasn't until Libya's megalomaniacal Col. Muammar Gadhafi announced he was planning to kill without mercy his own dissident citizens in Benghazi that U.S. President Barack Obama perked up and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talked retaliation with the European allies. The Germans balked. Then U.S., French and British fighter bombers decimated Gadhafi's tanks headed for Benghazi. But Obama, already saddled with two military theaters, and anxious to avoid a third, kicked Libya operations over to NATO and the Europeans.

In his first attempt to unveil what was quickly dubbed "Obama Doctrine," the president, in effect, bought Gadhafi more time by declaring regime change by force would be a mistake. Bush 41 took the same decision in 1991 by declining to chase Saddam Hussein's legions back to Baghdad. This, in turn, led to a 12-year, $14 billion no-fly zone over Iraq, followed by Gulf War II in 2003. The Saudis paid the tab, as they did for most of the war.

This time, the Saudis, armed with compensatory cash, managed to dodge popular wrath oozing through the Arab body politic. The only noticeable demonstration was a small one (about 1,000) in favor of the divine right of kings (enunciated by the Stuarts in Britain in the 16th century).

But Saudi soldiers in Bahrain, now backed by police from the United Arab Emirates (a federated union of seven sheikdoms, including Abu Dhabi and Dubai), face indefinite security duty in another country. Some 70 percent of Bahrain's work force is on strike and clashes with police are now routine.

Former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Chas W. Freeman Jr. says, "the one plausible source of contagion for Saudi Arabia is the civil strife in its much smaller sister kingdom of Bahrain … where the ouster of its royal family … could incite instability in the other small city-states" that make up the Gulf Cooperation Council with Saudi Arabia. And they all fear that majority Shiite rule in Bahrain would draw the island into the Iranian orbit, handing Iran a strategic base of influence in their midst.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, the man who headed the Saudi intelligence service for a quarter of a century before his appointment as ambassador to Britain and later the United States, reminded Western countries that GCC's mutual defense pact is similar to NATO's in its obligations.

Now chairman of the King Faisal Research Center, Prince Turki launched the drive for the GCC countries to acquire nuclear weapons, now described as essential vis-a-vis the two other regional powers that already posses them. He named Iran and Israel.

Prince Turki, in a little reported talk but clearly speaking for the kingdom at the annual conference of the Emirates Center for Strategic Studies, called for a joint Persian Gulf army "acquiring the nuclear might to face that of Iran."

While international efforts have clearly failed to coerce Tehran from developing nuclear weapons, and Israel from dismantling its own arsenal, a nuclear future for GCC is an imperative.

Between them -- Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain and Oman -- there is no shortage of cash in the "Sovereign Wealth Funds" to fund a nuclear weapons program. They can pay top dollar for nuclear scientists and engineers from Western powers and Russia.

"We ought to be effective regarding major international affairs and prevent others from dictating options to us," said Prince Turki, scion of the late King Feisal, the monarch who created the modern Saudi state.

Qatar, the wealthiest gulf state with a per capita income of $78,000, was the first non-NATO country to respond to the no-fly zone over Libya appeal from the 22-member Arab League. One-third of its French-made Mirage squadron flew to a Greek base in Crete where they joined a French squadron and flew four-plane joint patrols over northeastern Libya.

The United Arab Emirates followed the Qatari lead with 12 F-16s.

Qatar also has a global reach through al-Jazeera TV news, in both Arabic and English. Lavishly funded, the network has more bureaus and correspondents than any other TV news operation anywhere in the world.

The next act in the Persian Gulf sweepstakes won't be a walk in the park.

Arnaud de Borchgrave, a member of the Atlantic Council, is editor-at-large at UPI and the Washington Times.

 

[Developereo]

The tide is turning and Pakistan needs to be aware of the very real possibility that if these regimes topple, those who come to power may view Pakistan in a negative light. Hence the need for Islamabad to perhaps start hedging its bets

The Arab despots are basically 'Taliban in Limousines'. Pakistan's Middle East policy is Afghanistan redux. Some people never learn...

 

[RazorMC]

The young generation throughout the world is fiercely independent and may not necessarily believe in what their older leaders believed in.
Saudi Arabia may not see any major transformation since the US itself won't allow it to happen. There's a similar opinion towards Bahrain and other pro-US, oil-bearing countries.

 

[muse]

Friends, overwhelmingly, thinking Pakistanis have rejected call by the Wahabi princes to embroil Pakistan against the peoples who have found the spine to stand up to their oppressors -- but friends, it is not clear what course of action the powerful will take - Will they be the instrument of the conscience of the people or the dreaded Wahabi princes - This is a very important opportunity for those who wish Muslims ill because these events may represent the best opportunity to light a global sectarian flame, and bring an injury to Islam that it will not recover from -- We often read that Pakistan is a large Sunni Muslim country, but it is not often that we read that today Pakistan is the second largest Shi'ah Muslm country and in the near future, may well be the largest -- Given these realities, Pakistan can never choose between Sunni and Shi'ah, but some are determined to force Pakistan to bleed itself .

You will soon begin to read more and more about the sectarian dimension, as if the reason the people have revolted has anything to do with such things - be alerted

 

[SQ8]

Friends, overwhelmingly, thinking Pakistanis have rejected call by the Wahabi princes to embroil Pakistan against the peoples who have found the spine to stand up to their oppressors -- but friends, it is not clear what course of action the powerful will take - Will they be the instrument of the conscience of the people or the dreaded Wahabi princes - This is a very important opportunity for those who wish Muslims ill because these events may represent the best opportunity to light a global sectarian flame, and bring an injury to Islam that it will not recover from -- We often read that Pakistan is a large Sunni Muslim country, but it is not often that we read that today Pakistan is the second largest Shi'ah Muslm country and in the near future, may well be the largest -- Given these realities, Pakistan can never choose between Sunni and Shi'ah, but some are determined to force Pakistan to bleed itself .

You will soon begin to read more and more about the sectarian dimension, as if the reason the people have revolted has anything to do with such things - be alerted

The wahabi princes.. and not the thinking Pakistan's.. have generally the greater wealth.. sorry.. our leaders are suckers for the dollar.
And none has shown incorruptibility..

 

[muse]

No doubt that Dollars are persuasive -- But please do not sell Integrity short - in the end it's ordinary Muslims, Shi'ah, Sunni or whatever who must CONSCIOUSLY DECIDE, whether they will be a party to hate or refuse to be a party to hate...it's of course very difficult to stand on conviction, it's easier to be part of the herd -- but Muslims are not empty, bereft of FAITH, of conviction that hate itself is the substance of Godlessness -- You can read some are eager to risk their lives and to trade their Pakistan citizenship, but also read the consequences as the local population falls on them and accuses them of being mercenaries, a change not far from the truth.

 

[SQ8]

No doubt that Dollars are persuasive -- But please do not sell Integrity short - in the end it's ordinary Muslims, Shi'ah, Sunni or whatever who must CONSCIOUSLY DECIDE, whether they will be a party to hate or refuse to be a party to hate...it's of course very difficult to stand on conviction, it's easier to be part of the herd -- but Muslims are not empty, bereft of FAITH, of conviction that hate itself is the substance of Godlessness -- You can read some are eager to risk their lives and to trade their Pakistan citizenship, but also read the consequences as the local population falls on them and accuses them of being mercenaries, a change not far from the truth.

The local population.. for what its worth.. are generally swayed easily by oratory based on religion..
lets not make the mistake to ever cupboard the fact that Islam holds importance in Pakistani lives.. whether positively or negatively..
We consider it a sacred part of our mundane lives.

After all.. what else is left in being Pakistani apart from Islam.. take that away.. and there is no reason for this country..not anymore anyway..
Which brings me to the appeal of the wahabi or his proxies and offshoots.. not just to the leaders when it comes to cash.. but to the masses at large..
So the dollar is a dollar.. and here is a dollar with a kalimah inscribed on top..
suddenly.. the popular yardstick of "integrity"(read Certificate of Musalmaniyat) is coming with cash...
To the ordinary Pakistani .. even some of the schooled ones.. the appeal of this element...supported by the oil dollar.. albeit circumsized.. is a lot.
it is the outlet from the interest ridden bank system, the routine payoff's to the corrupt they must make.. and the sub-conscious alarm that goes off in their head everytime they commit a sin..and it allows them to release all of that. by raising their blood pressure.. releasing adrenaline into the stream.. and (if they have to beat somebody, break stuff.. or kill even) a bit of physical workout as well.
Forget the hate or love.. or any emotion.. this is better than any party pill...

The guy who has lost his job because of the mill that shut down in Faislabad.. doesnt care why.. and how.. but finds "Daymond" . and our "moral" stance as a nation responsible for his woes... sure he heard it somewhere.. some fellow talking about davis.. and women.. it allowed him to forget his rent, his sick kid.. and grocery..for which he has no money.. and god isnt helping him out in his mind.. at least the way he has thought..his sorrows arent his fault..
So the bellicose sermon by the local Mullah... on subjects filled with hate and fear.. give him a reason for his sorrows.. not blaming it all on somebody else since that would not be acceptable to his conscience.. but not entirely his own.. so he does not go into a cycle of self sabotage.
It is a balanced dose of personal and external "reform" based on hate and regret.. for somebody with troubles.. and not by his own self.. it works wonders.
That is your Pakistani herd in general..

Lets come to the thinkers..
and for the record.. I dont consider any Mufti's or other religious figures.. even the relatively moderate ones as thinkers.. since their understanding is based solely on bringing up references from books.. and verifying data using that.. something the roadside oath commissioner or the librarian can also claim mastery over.

What remains are the .. left, right of the left..uber-secularists.. some are disguised fundo's.. others more interesting in displaying some sort of pseudo intellect via sarcastic and cynical articles and 10 minutes on english news channels.
The deteriorating collective of university professors.. the less said the better...they seemed to have given up thinking on anything else other than their PhD's subject matter or what they teach.

There's the rich "elite".. them thinking.. I doubt that ..
The expats.. well.. no offense. as much as they love their country... but they arent here to experience the ground reality right now.. this second.

So what left then.. the few dispersed thinkers along society...
The .. Islam as I understand it.. is alive and well in some pockets dispersed.. it will remain secure..
but what of the role of Islam in Pakistan.. and those that think for it..
A few muddled , scared voices here and there.. nothing concrete.. nothing effective for more than a short burst of intellectual brilliance..
brilliance quickly dimmed out.. or doused by the abundant mud of hate preached by the other "Islam"..
I dare call it other.. since I dont find an ounce of what I believe Islam to be in it..

Pardon me.. I have swayed here and there on this.. but the subject matter.. does trigger some emotions..

The Fsec of Bahrain came recently.. along with bandar bin Sultan..
hired around 1300 pakistani boys.. the criteria being mostly their physical prowess..
what would you think of that.. mercs no??

 

[Developereo]

what else is left in being Pakistani apart from Islam.. take that away.. and there is no reason for this country..not anymore anyway..

This is the part I can never understand. When I grew up in Pakistan, I was a Pakistani by virtue of the fact that I was born in Pakistan. I shared that fact with everyone else who was born in Pakistan and that alone gave us a common bond, made us Pakistani. I had Christian, Hindu and Parsi friends and we were all Pakistani -- religion never came into the picture.

I don't understand why that is not enough any more. Why does there need to be something else to define being a Pakistani?

As for your other point, you are right that the spin doctors will come up with all sort of reasons for the mercenary duty. Already, we are told that the Libyan rebels are funded by CIA/Mossad/etc.. We are told that we should sympathize with a ruthless dictator who ordered his army to fire upon his own people. Similarly, in Bahrain, our boys go there to do the dirty work of the wahhabi tyrants, and then we complain that the locals don't like us.

Why is it that the Malaysians and Indonesians don't rent themselves out for this dirty work? Are they any less Muslim because they don't volunteer to be the 'army of Islam'?

To be fair, I don't blame the mercenaries too much. We have a lot of poor and lower middle income people who will take a decent paying job. It is a tough situation for them, too.

 

[T-Faz]

This is the part I can never understand. When I grew up in Pakistan, I was a Pakistani by virtue of the fact that I was born in Pakistan. I shared that fact with everyone else who was born in Pakistan and that alone gave us a common bond, made us Pakistani. I had Christian, Hindu and Parsi friends and we were all Pakistani -- religion never came into the picture.

I don't understand why that is not enough any more. Why does there need to be something else to define being a Pakistani?

The majority of Pakistani's, even the ones with a liberal outlook utter this inane phrase a lot stating that being a Pakistani is associated with Islam as Islam is the binding force in this nation.

What they fail to look at is the fact that religion was a reason for the creation of the state but not the purpose. The idea was that there would not be any difference between Muslims, Hindu's, Parsis and Christians becuase all of us will have one single unifying entity called Pakistan and we would simply be known as Pakistani's. Religious differences had already occured in British India where groups were formed based on religion and this should not have happened in Pakistan but alas it occured and look where we are today.

This whole idea of Pakistan falling apart if Islam is not a part of it was always present amongst certain sections of our society but it become a mainstream phenomenon during the late 70's and early 80's. The idea of being a Pakistani is that you belong to a nation called Pakistan which is a lump sum of Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, Sindh and Balochistan. Had Islam been the core reason for the state, the name Pakistan would not have been used the flag of this nation would not have a white stripe for the other religions that were a part of it.

Simply put, religiousity wrecked this nation.