For those who make fun at China's jet engine

[ChineseTiger1986]

First of all, you need to have an idea about the country you are making fun of.

Do you think who now has one of the most advanced extrusion presses?

Maximum vertical extrusion press extrusion first team thick seamless steel pipe | shijiananvip001

Do you know that the disc alloy of the turbofan engine was forged by these extrusion presses?

And here is the US counterpart, and where is the UK and France? Because all you have to do is to send your pieces to the US and ask them to do the forgery for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Castparts_Corp.

So stop comparing yourselves with China, since China has its own complete technological ecosystem, while you guys depend on the US on most of parts.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Wiki article you posted doesn't exist.

Ok - found it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Castparts_Corp.

On the PDF, the British/French members can bully Indian/Iranian/Arab members at best.

Meanwhile, when they wanna make fun at China, so all I can do is to slap them with those basic proofs and common senses.

It is a bad idea to mess with China.

 

[graphican]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Castparts_Corp.

Put a dot "." after Corp and it will work.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Castparts_Corp.

Put a dot "." after Corp and it will work.

Go to their official website, and see how they are doing the forgery for all western jet engine companies.

Welcome to Precision Castparts Corp.

 

[Martian2]

China's J-10B (powered by indigenous WS-10A turbofan engine) is superior to Eurofighter and Rafale

Chinese WS-10A engine (with gearbox at the bottom) is designed to power the J-10B Vigorous Dragon fighter. This version of the WS-10A turbofan engine is said to have 13.2 ton maximum thrust. There are several wrapped engines near the floor.

China's J-10B is powered by the indigenous WS-10A engine. As a 4.5-generation fighter with partial stealth characteristics (e.g. DSI and RAM-coated canopy), the Chinese J-10B is superior to the 4th-generation British Eurofighter and French Rafale.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Chinese WS-10A engine (with gearbox at the bottom) is designed to power the J-10B Vigorous Dragon fighter. This version of the WS-10A turbofan engine is said to have 13.2 ton maximum thrust. There are several wrapped engines near the floor.

China is like the US, we are doing the forgery of the disc alloy by ourselves with our own extrusion press machine.

Meanwhile, both UK and France needs the American extrusion press machine to forge the disc alloy for their jet engine.

 

[Martian2]

China's J-10A Vigorous Dragon is superior to French Rafale

China's J-10A flies higher, faster, and carry longer-range PL-12 AAM (air-to-air missile) than French Rafale.

The J-10A carries four PL-12 missiles with 70+ km range that can easily shoot down a French Rafale carrying shorter 50km range MICA missiles.

The J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

For within-visual-range (WVR) combat, a J-10A can circle above and swoop down with guns blazing on a helpless French Rafale. On the other hand, a French Rafale cannot engage a high-flying J-10A at 18,000m (which is 1,200m beyond the French Rafale's service ceiling).

The J-10A can carry four PL-12 beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles with 70+ km range. However, the MICA missile carried by the French Rafale has a much shorter 50km range (according to GlobalSecurity).

To be generous, I have elected not to cite the higher 100km range for the PL-12 (see International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > The Air Balance on the Taiwan Strait).

The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale. This means the J-10A can fire its four PL-12 missiles at a French Rafale at 60km and fly home safely. The French Rafale's slower speed means it cannot chase down a J-10A.

The final point is the deadliness of China's PL-12 missiles.

Advanced but Unproved Chinese BVR Medium Range Missile SD-10

"Its seven recent test firings all hit the targets.
...
Experts believe that domestic SD-10's performance has surpassed the U.S. AIM-120A/B, Russian R-77 and the French MICA (Missile d'Interception et de Combat Aerien), etc., and close to the AIM-120C."

[Note: PL-12/SD-10 refers to the same missile.]

----------

References (for Wikipedia articles, see primary source footnotes):

Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mica | GlobalSecurity

 

[RescueRanger]

On the PDF, the British/French members can bully Indian/Iranian/Arab members at best.

Meanwhile, when they wanna make fun at China, so all I can do is to slap them with those basic proofs and common senses.

It is a bad idea to mess with China.

The reason they laugh is because of "insecurity". When I was very young my grandfather purchased a "National" Television which was made by Japan and this is going back a while, when some guests arrived they asked him why would he risk buying an expensive TV from an unknown brand because at the time people who were well to do would purchase imported "Grundig" TV's which was manufactured in England.

My grandfather remarked, because the Japanese were sailing the oceans when the "English" were painting their faces and fighting for mounds of dirt. And then in the 80's,90's and 2000's everyone want's to own a Japanese TV, or a electrical item... Times change!

Now people laugh at China, because they are "insecure", there was a time when people would laugh at someone who owned a Chinese Mobile phone, but now if you have the money, a Rs. 10,000 Chinese phone will give you all the features of a Samsung Galaxy but at lower cost.

I do believe that China is the next economic and industrial superpower and China will take a leading role in research and development in future years.

 

[Martian2]

Chinese J-10A armed with PL-12 missile is far superior to French Rafale armed with MICA missile

PL-12 / SD-10A on display at Datangshan in 2010 (Zhenguan Studio, © 2010, Air Power Australia).

A MICA EM missile (top) and MICA IR (bottom), displayed at Farnborough in 1998 (Duncan Lennox)

1. The Chinese PL-12 air-to-air missile has higher potential energy in combat. The Chinese J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

2. The Chinese PL-12 missile has higher kinetic energy in combat. A missile fired from a Mach 2.2 J-10A will fly much further than a missile fired from a much slower Mach 1.8 Rafale. The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale.

3. The Chinese PL-12 missile is significantly larger in size and can carry more rocket propellant. More rocket fuel means greater range.

Chinese PL-12 missile has a volume of 3.7m x pi x (0.1m^2) = 0.116 cubic meters

French MICA missile has a volume of 3.1m x pi x (0.08m^2) = 0.062 cubic meters

In conclusion, the Chinese PL-12 has almost twice the volume of the much smaller French Rafale missile.
_________________________________________________________________________________

PL-12 | GlobalSecurity

"The missile is thought to correspond to the PL-12 designation, which is also associated with the SD-10 designation, possibly for export purposes. Like the basic R-77, Project 129 appears to have a body diameter of 200 mm., with a length of around 3.7 meters (12.1 ft.)."
-----

Mica RF - Deagel

"Mica RF
IOC: 1996
Also Known As: Mica EM
Origin: France
Contractor/s: MBDA

Dimensions

Diameter: 160 millimeter
Length: 3.10 meter"

 

[C130]

who's making fun of China engines??

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

who's making fun of China engines??

Congratulation, just because I had to build up my argument, yet I had to reveal another US dominance in the jet engine technology over the UK and France.

Without your extrusion press machine, they can't even forge the main components of their jet engines.

The reason they laugh is because of "insecurity". When I was very young my grandfather purchased a "National" Television which was made by Japan and this is going back a while, when some guests arrived they asked him why would he risk buying an expensive TV from an unknown brand because at the time people who were well to do would purchase imported "Grundig" TV's which was manufactured in England.

My grandfather remarked, because the Japanese were sailing the oceans when the "English" were painting their faces and fighting for mounds of dirt. And then in the 80's,90's and 2000's everyone want's to own a Japanese TV, or a electrical item... Times change!

Now people laugh at China, because they are "insecure", there was a time when people would laugh at someone who owned a Chinese Mobile phone, but now if you have the money, a Rs. 10,000 Chinese phone will give you all the features of a Samsung Galaxy but at lower cost.

I do believe that China is the next economic and industrial superpower and China will take a leading role in research and development in future years.

China can basically make everything independently, but we just need to keep improving in certain domains.

 

[Misay]

哥们，等咱们国家的发动机能出口了再吹不迟啊，现在只是部分服役，低调。

 

[Genesis]

I understand why to create this thread, but I must say I never looked at Europe the same way as US. US is a global power, great in essentially everything, we need to strive for that.

Europe is very specialized, they are great in certain fields, like DDG-1000 has a British engine, but that same British engine also has a US input, which means the US can do it if they want to, but they don't need to.

Here's where China has a problem, China don't have a country that can do that, I'm hoping Pakistan's JF-17 can help kick start an industry, because China can be great in all things, but we shouldn't want to, or else, we be handicapped before we even start, or at least we need to match US+Euorpe and Japan in terms of spending, which is insane, and just too much.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

哥们，等咱们国家的发动机能出口了再吹不迟啊，现在只是部分服役，低调。

So the F119 engine is also not available for export, but does this mean it is inferior?

Being able to export those engines of the propeller aircrafts doesn't mean you are good at making those high-end jet engines.

总之一句话，再继续装孙子的话，自己早晚就是孙子。

 

[Misay]

So the F119 engine is also not available for export, but does this mean it is inferior?

Being able to export those engines of the propeller aircrafts doesn't mean you are good at making those high-end jet engines.

总之一句话，再继续装孙子的话，自己早晚就是孙子。

潜龙勿用，亢龙有悔