Focusing on LNG, govt bans new solar and wind projects

[Faiez]

Thank you, and how many panels will be required for that 6000 MW plant that will be, according to you, able to supply 1000 MW continuously.

6,000 MW worth of panels will be required.

Panels come in different sizes....industrial/commercial usage ones are probably bigger than the usual 300W ones.

 

[Arsalan]

6,000 MW worth of panels will be required.

Panels come in different sizes....industrial/commercial usage ones are probably bigger than the usual 300W ones.

OKY any idea, a rough guess? how may panels what number will be required? you can use any capacity panel, 300 MW or take any other you want sir. I will need your view on about HOW MANY number will be required for this 6000MW capacity, what number!

 

[Faiez]

OKY any idea, a rough guess? how may panels what number will be required? you can use any capacity panel, 300 MW or take any other you want sir. I will need your view on about HOW MANY number will be required for this 6000MW capacity, what number!

why do you so desperately want to know the number of panels ? It will vary by design and I'm not into solar power plant design. So I don't know.

 

[Shah01]

Well if I assume 300 watts per panel then about 20,000,000 panels will be required for the said 6000 MW. Not sure what the world's annual production solar panels but that is a big number by any means.

 

[Arsalan]

why do you so desperately want to know the number of panels ? It will vary by design and I'm not into solar power plant design. So I don't know.

Well i just want to you FINALY realize what we were actually talking about. You do not seem to know what the discussion was about and just jumped in with some strange comparisons.

Here, one last try. You say that it will need a 6000 MW plant, and say it will, depending on design ( working on a 500 W panel) need around 12000000 panels. NOW see on who much area these would cover and what an army you will need to maintain them. Automation or no automation, you will need MUCH MUCH more people then required to manage a wind power plant that can product same amount of electricity using 600 odd turbines. THIS IS COMPARISON. No one was saying that solar is bad or solar is good and wind is bad, we were comparing pros and cons.

THAT IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT UNTIL YOU JUMPED IN CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NAMES AND ACTING AS IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT THIS.

The lesson, better to do some research before mouthing off others. I have been here for several years, i mean no offense but this is a friendly advise that you will find helpful if you are to stay here. We are come here to learn new things, at least i do. So best keep the debates decent and civilized.

 

[Faiez]

Well i just want to you FINALY realize what we were actually talking about. You do not seem to know what the discussion was about and just jumped in with some strange comparisons.

Here, one last try. You say that it will need a 6000 MW plant, and say it will, depending on design ( working on a 500 W panel) need around 12000000 panels. NOW see on who much area these would cover and what an army you will need to maintain them. Automation or no automation, you will need MUCH MUCH more people then required to manage a wind power plant that can product same amount of electricity using 600 odd turbines. THIS IS COMPARISON. No one was saying that solar is bad or solar is good and wind is bad, we were comparing pros and cons.

THAT IS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT UNTIL YOU JUMPED IN CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NAMES AND ACTING AS IF YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS ABOUT THIS.

The lesson, better to do some research before mouthing off others. I have been here for several years, i mean no offense but this is a friendly advise that you will find helpful if you are to stay here. We are come here to learn new things, at least i do. So best keep the debates decent and civilized.

firstly, where are your calculations regarding manpower requirements for a solar power plant ? even a copy/paste will do.

secondly, I have never called you any names.

Also, let me tell you that solar panels are almost close to maintenance free. You don't need thousands of men doing something to the panels every day. A single man should be handle upto several MW of panels easily on average.

 

[Arsalan]

firstly, where are your calculations regarding manpower requirements for a solar power plant ? even a copy/paste will do.

secondly, I have never called you any names.

Also, let me tell you that solar panels are almost close to maintenance free. You don't need thousands of men doing something to the panels every day. A single man should be handle up to several MW of panels easily on average.

Well you are wrong here. There are no calculation, just some common sense. I have a setup of 16 panels that i need to wast at least twice a week. Else the efficiency start to go down. So there goes the "maintenance free" issue.
Also do you really need CALCULATION to see how many people will be required to run a plant having 12000000 panels compared to men required at a 600 wind mill plant?

Still, if you want to hear it from someone else as well, you may find this helpful (although i am losing hope fast)
Urban Grime Foils Modi’s Plans for India’s Solar Power | Valley News


About calling names, i i felt so i would have reported you straight away instead of getting into seemingly fruitless debates with you. However do remember that calling others "Stupid" do not make you look like a genius!

 

[niaz]

With crude oil selling below $50 per bbl. and LNG down to $8 per million btu; no alternate source of energy can compete with Combined Cycle gas fired power plant. It is cheap to build, flexible, reliable and efficient. Therefore GOP decision in the light of today’s scenario is a correct one albeit short sighted.

Thermal Efficiency being the power (saleable energy) as a percentage of the calorific value of the fuel consumed. In a combined gas &steam turbine thermal efficiency of about 55% is quite common and some manufactures even claim thermal efficiencies of about 65%

On the other hand, solar energy is without doubt the most expensive method of energy production on large scale. Even if cost of the PVC panels becomes cheap enough to compete with fossil fuel plants; when annualised, power output from 100 MW Solar farm would only be about 35% even in sunny climates. Solar panels work best on small scale; such as on the individual houses. Mainly because there is no transmission cost and you need less power at night.

Wind energy is cheaper than solar power. However, since power output is related to wind speed, even the most efficient turbines would on the average only produce about 60% of the installed capacity on annualised basis. Additionally, there are severe practical constraints due to the size of solar & wind farms when power is produced on large scale. Besides, how would you cope with the sudden rise & fall in the seasonal and daily demand of electricity?

For example Northern areas need more power during winter whereas South Punjab & Sind require more power in summer. In Ramadan there would be a surge in demand during ‘Sahari’ then nothing for about 4 hours until the offices open.

In the order of cost alone, hydel power is most certainly the cheapest, followed by the fossil fuel based and nuclear energy. These plants are also flexible.

Notwithstanding the above genuine economic reasons, one must not forget the effect on environment. If we want to leave a ‘Habitable’ earth for future generations, we cannot continue pumping huge amount of CO2 into the atmosphere through burning millions of tons of fossil fuels ad infinitim. Therefore as a compromise; a ‘Mix’ of different kind of power generation is need of the day with solar & wind energy ideally about 20% of the mix.

However nothing is for nothing and Pakistani consumers must be prepared to pay real cost of power generation. My countrymen however want to enjoy benefits of power but don’t want to pay for it. Heard some inhabitants of KPK don’t pay bills and shoot the workers who come round to cut their electricity!

 

[Faiez]

Well you are wrong here. There are no calculation, just some common sense. I have a setup of 16 panels that i need to wast at least twice a week. Else the efficiency start to go down. So there goes the "maintenance free" issue.
Also do you really need CALCULATION to see how many people will be required to run a plant having 12000000 panels compared to men required at a 600 wind mill plant?

Still, if you want to hear it from someone else as well, you may find this helpful (although i am losing hope fast)
Urban Grime Foils Modi’s Plans for India’s Solar Power | Valley News


About calling names, i i felt so i would have reported you straight away instead of getting into seemingly fruitless debates with you. However do remember that calling others "Stupid" do not make you look like a genius!

These problems exist on small scale, not on utility scale. There are many methods through which solar panels are kept clean at utility scale. Also, cleaning is not necessary that often. You obviously have your panels in a residential area where there are tree and birds, so naturally you are going to get your panels pooped all the time...

The main cost in solar power is the cost of the plant (depreciation expense).

For wind I have explained that Pakistan does not have that much potential.

 

[Arsalan]

These problems exist on small scale, not on utility scale. There are many methods through which solar panels are kept clean at utility scale. Also, cleaning is not necessary that often. You obviously have your panels in a residential area where there are tree and birds, so naturally you are going to get your panels pooped all the time...

The main cost in solar power is the cost of the plant (depreciation expense).

For wind I have explained that Pakistan does not have that much potential.

Comparison!! that is what we were doing, How do you think he compare the fare, wind and solar, maintenance wise? 600 wind mills or 12000000 panels? if it really that difficult to understand?
No one said that solar is bad or wind if the only way forward. It was a simple compassion that have been turned into such a complex debate.

As for the potential, i pointed you to the feasibility report. Yes we do have potential, a gross potential over 40000 MW and an immediately utilizable (easier access areas) potential of 11000 MW. The current capacity is somewhere around 20000 MW so comparing with that 11k is a HUGE AMOUNT, Also don't forget the total gross potential of 43000 MW.

 

[Imran Khan]

dogs can rule better pakistan then politicians