First Block 2 JF-17s under construction in Pakistan

[The SC]

-- means a degrade version. I mean use tech and parts in use is more feasible. The price is cheaper, but less risk. Fighters should be reliable and durable, especially in the war time. I never think MKI is a good jet, because it is really a prototype.

J31 is already a flying prototype, if PAF can accept the main frame , and choose the electronic equipment made in China not the whole world, e.g. some components from J10A, J10B, J11, or J16, maybe some components for J20. They are intensively tested components, so shorter time for integration, and the engineers in China understand them. The time to produce the first J31 for PAF will be greatly reduced. Even earlier than J10B, and 5-- generation fight is also better than any 4+generation, at least not worse. Shenyang bets on J31, but until now they donot see any output, the fee for researching is already sink cost.

If J31 is chosen for aircraft containers, J31 will be developed by the PLA Navy, more components will be available for PAF, and the J31 will be a long time supported project. Therefore, PAF benefits too. This possibility is very high. The size of J31 is popular size of fighter for aircraft containers, J15 is good, but to large, so the number of J15 is limited. A 5G. J31 is a good choice for navy. Kick Shengyang out of 5G. fighter producing is never a good choice for Chinese government.

MKI might not be a good jet, but it has some of most sophisticated avionics, and is a heavy air superiority fighter in numbers, like the F-14 and the F-15 that it was built to counter, although the US made planes were overall sophisticated quite a while ago. Just imagine Iran with 200 F-14s even today (200 to match the 300MKI qualitatively)!
From the Chinese point of view I can understand that they represent a lesser threat than in Pakistan's perception.
I am all for the J-31 for Pakistan, and by the time it will be available it should be at least a 5- jet, let's say 2 to 3 years from now as some experts believe. I think also that it is intended to be a 4++/5-- jet and a full 5 generation jet, just by the pictures available with external and internal weapon systems and others with only the internal weapon's bay.
Anyhow it has a very good flat design, AESA radar, BVR and much more capabilities, most critics say good things about the J-31, It is also going to be a 100 % Chinese 5th generation fighter with Chinese engines, if I am not mistaken, the same engines that will be used on the next JF-17 blocks.

 

[kolinsky]

They are intensively tested compone

Mki is air superiority fighter... fall into heavy weight category... get the difference first...

PAF got edge over IAF until 90s... but it is tilted towards IAF favor... neither F-7 is modern nor PAF going to get J-10b.. i just compared the current inventory... otherwise we can include Rafales, Pak-Fa and FGFA... spend time go through various threads first.. PAF got 50 JF-17 blk1... block-2 about to role out, I don't know about the production rate nor have idea about 3 block, so i am not arguing on that part... MKI gonna touch 300 mark including Super standard.. I still stick to my stance... IAF holds Qualitative and Quantitative edge over PAF...

that the thing donot understand, Su30 are fight bombers, they are design for this goal. however the india use it sa suprtiority missions.

MKI might not be a good jet, but it has some of most sophisticated avionics, and is a heavy air superiority fighter in numbers, like the F-14 and the F-15 that it was built to counter, although the US made planes were overall sophisticated quite a while ago. Just imagine Iran with 200 F-14s even today (200 to match the 300MKI qualitatively)!
From the Chinese point of view I can understand that they represent a lesser threat than in Pakistan's perception.
I am all for the J-31 for Pakistan, and by the time it will be available it should be at least a 5- jet, let's say 2 to 3 years from now as some experts believe. I think also that it is intended to be a 4++/5-- jet and a full 5 generation jet, just by the pictures available with external and internal weapon systems and others with only the internal weapon's bay.
Anyhow it has a very good flat design, AESA radar, BVR and much more capabilities, most critics say good things about the J-31, It is also going to be a 100 % Chinese 5th generation fighter with Chinese engines, if I am not mistaken, the same engines that will be used on the next JF-17 blocks.

The number of MKI is a great problem for PAF, there is not doubt.

MKI is a multirole fighter, not a superiority fighter. That is the most funny thing.

Russia is a good salesman. Look at this picture.

The two fighters used by Russia is Su-30sm and Su35S. Su35S is based on the design of Su27sk, the su27 variant for China and later other countries. The Su30sm is based on the design of Su30MKI. They are different series.

China chose the Su27sk as superiority fighter, and so Russia follows this thought, the end product right now is 48 Su35s in 2015. Based on Su27sk, there is also Chinese variant J11 superiority fighter. The superiority fighter from Russia and China are clearly from Su27sk series.

The Su30 variant accepted by Russia is Su30SM, which is based on the design of India Su30MKI, but it is assigned to strike force, so it is a multirole fighter and emphasized air-surface mission. In China, Su30MKK is used as a striker. Su30MK2 is assigned to navy, its a striker. We developed J11BS(J16) from the Su30MKK and it is a striker. Let's come back to India, why is Su30MKI a superiority figher? In a bunch of striker, Su30MKI is the black sheep of the family. I don't understand, how did Russian persuade India to believe the Su30MKI is designed for superiority fighter, they just put a TVC engine in a striker to make a easy money. Although the Su30 chosen by Russia is from Su30MKI, which means that Su30MKI has better performance than Su30MKK series, but it is still not good enough to be a superiority fighter.

See, superiority fighter from Chinese variant Su27SK. Striker from India Su30MKI, we paid for development of Russian fighter. The difference is the PLAAF did not mix up the striker and superiority fighter, but India did.

 

[The SC]

that the thing donot understand, Su30 are fight bombers, they are design for this goal. however the india use it sa suprtiority missions.

The number of MKI is a great problem for PAF, there is not doubt.

MKI is a multirole fighter, not a superiority fighter. That is the most funny thing.

Russia is a good salesman. Look at this picture.

The two fighters used by Russia is Su-30sm and Su35S. Su35S is based on the design of Su27sk, the su27 variant for China and later other countries. The Su30sm is based on the design of Su30MKI. They are different series.

China chose the Su27sk as superiority fighter, and so Russia follows this thought, the end product right now is 48 Su35s in 2015. Based on Su27sk, there is also Chinese variant J11 superiority fighter. The superiority fighter from Russia and China are clearly from Su27sk series.

The Su30 variant accepted by Russia is Su30SM, which is based on the design of India Su30MKI, but it is assigned to strike force, so it is a multirole fighter and emphasized air-surface mission. In China, Su30MKK is used as a striker. Su30MK2 is assigned to navy, its a striker. We developed J11BS(J16) from the Su30MKK and it is a striker. Let's come back to India, why is Su30MKI a superiority figher? In a bunch of striker, Su30MKI is the black sheep of the family. I don't understand, how did Russian persuade India to believe the Su30MKI is designed for superiority fighter, they just put a TVC engine in a striker to make a easy money. Although the Su30 chosen by Russia is from Su30MKI, which means that Su30MKI has better performance than Su30MKK series, but it is still not good enough to be a superiority fighter.

See, superiority fighter from Chinese variant Su27SK. Striker from India Su30MKI, we paid for development of Russian fighter. The difference is the PLAAF did not mix up the striker and superiority fighter, but India did.

So, it is a striker and a relatively good one when compared with the Chinese MKK. As a striker, I believe it is most vulnerable due to its big RCS, but still the numbers are big and pose some kind of a threat.

 

[gslv mk3]

I never think MKI is a good jet, because it is really a prototype.

MKI is a multirole fighter, not a superiority fighter.

Was that meant to be a joke ?

 

[danger007]

that the thing donot understand, Su30 are fight bombers, they are design for this goal. however the india use it sa suprtiority missions.

The number of MKI is a great problem for PAF, there is not doubt.

MKI is a multirole fighter, not a superiority fighter. That is the most funny thing.

Russia is a good salesman. Look at this picture.

The two fighters used by Russia is Su-30sm and Su35S. Su35S is based on the design of Su27sk, the su27 variant for China and later other countries. The Su30sm is based on the design of Su30MKI. They are different series.

China chose the Su27sk as superiority fighter, and so Russia follows this thought, the end product right now is 48 Su35s in 2015. Based on Su27sk, there is also Chinese variant J11 superiority fighter. The superiority fighter from Russia and China are clearly from Su27sk series.

The Su30 variant accepted by Russia is Su30SM, which is based on the design of India Su30MKI, but it is assigned to strike force, so it is a multirole fighter and emphasized air-surface mission. In China, Su30MKK is used as a striker. Su30MK2 is assigned to navy, its a striker. We developed J11BS(J16) from the Su30MKK and it is a striker. Let's come back to India, why is Su30MKI a superiority figher? In a bunch of striker, Su30MKI is the black sheep of the family. I don't understand, how did Russian persuade India to believe the Su30MKI is designed for superiority fighter, they just put a TVC engine in a striker to make a easy money. Although the Su30 chosen by Russia is from Su30MKI, which means that Su30MKI has better performance than Su30MKK series, but it is still not good enough to be a superiority fighter.

See, superiority fighter from Chinese variant Su27SK. Striker from India Su30MKI, we paid for development of Russian fighter. The difference is the PLAAF did not mix up the striker and superiority fighter, but India did.

MKI is Air superiority fighter being modified for ground strike platform in the Super variant ....learn basics before you say something
@Oscar please take care of this newbie. . talking nonsense...

So, it is a striker and a relatively good one when compared with the Chinese MKK. As a striker, I believe it is most vulnerable due to its big RCS, but still the numbers are big and pose some kind of a threat.

MKI might not be a good jet, but it has some of most sophisticated avionics, and is a heavy air superiority fighter in numbers, like the F-14 and the F-15 that it was built to counter, although the US made planes were overall sophisticated quite a while ago. Just imagine Iran with 200 F-14s even today (200 to match the 300MKI qualitatively)!
From the Chinese point of view I can understand that they represent a lesser threat than in Pakistan's perception.
I am all for the J-31 for Pakistan, and by the time it will be available it should be at least a 5- jet, let's say 2 to 3 years from now as some experts believe. I think also that it is intended to be a 4++/5-- jet and a full 5 generation jet, just by the pictures available with external and internal weapon systems and others with only the internal weapon's bay.
Anyhow it has a very good flat design, AESA radar, BVR and much more capabilities, most critics say good things about the J-31, It is also going to be a 100 % Chinese 5th generation fighter with Chinese engines, if I am not mistaken, the same engines that will be used on the next JF-17 blocks.

you are saying not good jet and good jet ... Make up your mind first...

 

[Interceptor2014]

After reading the post its clear up that there will be just 150 of JF-17s. But will 150 of them will be enough to replace all of the fleet of F-7, A-5 and Mirages???

 

[The SC]

MKI is Air superiority fighter being modified for ground strike platform in the Super variant ....learn basics before you say something
@Oscar please take care of this newbie. . talking nonsense...

you are saying not good jet and good jet ... Make up your mind first...

"might not be a good jet, but it has some of most sophisticated avionics". Was what I said.
Any how the Chinese guy has more convincing arguments and even charts .You just rant!

 

[kaykay]

So, it is a striker and a relatively good one when compared with the Chinese MKK. As a striker, I believe it is most vulnerable due to its big RCS, but still the numbers are big and pose some kind of a threat.

RCS plays little role when you have better radar. MKI has a powerful PESA radar and any MMRs will find Hard to lock them but not vice versa.

 

[The SC]

RCS plays little role when you have better radar. MKI has a powerful PESA radar and any MMRs will find Hard to lock them but not vice versa.

Yes it is part of its sophisticated electronics, I was talking about. There are also different technologies to lock on even the most sophisticated airplanes like the F-15s fo instance., See US an European drills.

 

[kaykay]

Yes it is part of its sophisticated electronics, I was talking about. There are also different technologies to lock on even the most sophisticated airplanes like the F-15s fo instance., See US an European drills.

I know. I was talking about one on one basis. But anyway in a war its always about collective assets of one country with collective assets of other which include various counter measures and aircrafts like say AWACS.

 

[kolinsky]

So, it is a striker and a relatively good one when compared with the Chinese MKK. As a striker, I believe it is most vulnerable due to its big RCS, but still the numbers are big and pose some kind of a threat.

What time was the last MMK/MK2 for China delivered? The next version of Su30 for China was MK3, in that picture, the MK3 program is canceled, because J11BS(J16). The MK3 is obviously not good enough for us any more. The MKK/MK2 for other country lacks for quality control, all countries who buy Su30 has no capability to QC except China.

The last Su30MKI was delivered last year, and there is no more Su30MKI orders from India. There is still MK2 orders from Vet Nam until 2015. Choosing Su30MKI as the basic model for Su30SM is also a convenient choices. 30 Su30SM for Russia themselves is an option to fill this gap. The avionics is the most mystical part. Do you believe Russian? Will they sale the most advanced system to India before they equip themselves? Do you bbelieve India? Will they understand the components from France and Isreal and put them together successfully? Next year we can see the Su30SM, I think Su30MKI is a "monkey version" compared to Su30SM. If Su30MKI realy some thing, why India wants to upgrade their Su30MKI with components from France and Isreal. As the same reason, why China abanden Su30MK3?

As a superiority fight, Su35S has only 1 crew, because 1 crew is enough. Why Su30MKI has 2? All Su30 series has 2, just because it is a striker based on a trainer Su27PU.

 

[kolinsky]

MKI is Air superiority fighter being modified for ground strike platform in the Super variant ....learn basics before you say something
@Oscar please take care of this newbie. . talking nonsense...

you are saying not good jet and good jet ... Make up your mind first...

No,no,no, MKI is a superiority variant from a ground striker platform, not for.

which fabrique built MKI?
Do they ever build a superiority fighter of Su27 farmily except MKI？
Which Su27 was planed to be replaced by Su30MK?
Su27S or Su27IB?
The whole Su30M series is based on a striker platform. Oh my brother, you have made a big mistake.

 

[danger007]

No,no,no, MKI is a superiority variant from a ground striker platform, not for.

which fabrique built MKI?
Do they ever build a superiority fighter of Su27 farmily except MKI？
Which Su27 was planed to be replaced by Su30MK?
Su27S or Su27IB?
The whole Su30M series is based on a striker platform. Oh my brother, you have made a big mistake.

Sukhoi Flankers - The Shifting Balance of Regional Air Power


read it first before you say something. ..

 

[shanis]

After reading the post its clear up that there will be just 150 of JF-17s. But will 150 of them will be enough to replace all of the fleet of F-7, A-5 and Mirages???

not only 150 ... total Jf-17 thunder's will be 250 to 300 in all blocks category ...

 

[kolinsky]

read it first before you say something. ..

Brother, you should read this artical very carefully, then you find the minor differences and the truth behind words.

This is a picture in your URL, both China and Indonesia have two variants of Su30/27. One is striker, one is superiority fligter. Tell me, which one does MKI look like at the first glance?