First Block 2 JF-17s under construction in Pakistan

[skynet]

are you kidding .... if Jf-17 block 1 2 or 3 will not counter the Su-30 mki or Su-29 Mki then why we are wasting money on them .... be realistic, don't forget Jf-17 abilities ... and IN SHA ALLAH block 3 will match with ability like F-16's and Su-30mki if we will use AESA system in thunder Block 3.

always believe what we have and we have birds like F-16's and JF-17 thunder block 1 2 and Soon block 3.
and we must use AESA in block 3 ...

when we can waste 1.2 billion or more on Metro project then IN SHA ALLAH we will buy AESA too ...

 

[Zhukov]

I dont understand where do you people get the hypothesis that JF17 cannot counter and destroy a su30mki.
yes the The KLJ7 can easily detect and track the 15m2 elephant su30MKI and yes an SD10 can take it down Beyond visual range and yes a PL5E or a sindwinder can take ot down in WVR.
Rest depends on the sitiation.
Su30 is more capable then JFT of course it have more weapons more roles better avionics. But that does not mean it cannot be destroyed by a fully armed JFT. Its not a damn WWE wrestling match or a boxing round.
Hell even an ancient mig23 can shoot down su30 flanker with R77 in right situation.

But i am afraid Ultra Nationalist trolls will have hard time to swallow this fact.
Air warfare is not a damn tug of war. there are many factors involved.
And currently there is nothing in indian Airforce Inventory that is totally invincible for PAF amd Vice versa.

Discuss the JFT blk2 here and stop this rubbish d*** measurnment syndrome

 

[Umer Jasim]

The JF-17 was never meant to counter the Su-30MKIs, they were meant to replace older PAF fighters with a relatively modern machine, one that was sanction-proof.

AESA is both costly, and likely hasn't been developed for the thunder as of it.

Like you said The JF-17 is sanction proof machines then why we still rally on USA F-16..i know they are far better then JF-17..but we must also think after american withdrawn from Afghanistan it will hard for us to get F-16 parts..then why we aren't improving our Jf-17 Thunder block 2 more.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Guys JF-17 ws designed to survive SU-30. It went through at least 2 design cycles knowing that it would have to face SU-30. It has certain features that mitigate its short-comings viz-a-viz SU-30. Small size, nimbleness, high wing loading, good radar. In any case this not something that has not been discussed too many times before. I advise that we save time and not get into it. Those who wish to know more can simply use the search function.

 

[Kompromat]

Guys JF-17 ws designed to survive SU-30. It went through at least 2 design cycles knowing that it would have to face SU-30. It has certain features that mitigate its short-comings viz-a-viz SU-30. Small size, nimbleness, high wing loading, good radar. In any case this not something that has not been discussed too many times before. I advise that we save time and not get into it. Those who wish to know more can simply use the search function.

Interesting thing would be to see the following happen.

• How a 'Clean' JF-17 looks like on radar.
• What if an enclosed weapons pod is developed for belly mounted hard point and the jet is employed without fuel tanks.
• 2X SD-10s inside the pod + AEWC aircraft link which has a detection range of 400kms and the capability to guide radar guided missiles.

Im wondering what the symmetry would be in such a scenario

 

[Donatello]

Interesting thing would be to see the following happen.

• How a 'Clean' JF-17 looks like on radar.
• What if an enclosed weapons pod is developed for belly mounted hard point and the jet is employed without fuel tanks.
• 2X SD-10s inside the pod + AEWC aircraft link which has a detection range of 400kms and the capability to guide radar guided missiles.

Im wondering what the symmetry would be in such a scenario

The RCS of a clean JF-17 is already pretty small, even a clean F-16 is pretty good (even though it's bigger in size than JF-17). So in our 4th Gen scenario, JF-17 has the smallest RCS out there. I am not sure if it would be feasible to have enclosed weapons pod, since for that you will need large amount of space inside the airframe, which goes against the small stature of JF-17, plus the issues with cost. JF-17 is cheap fighter, yet it can go toe to toe with F-16 or Mirage 2000, Mig 29 or Sukhoi.

 

[Viper0011.]

The RCS of a clean JF-17 is already pretty small, even a clean F-16 is pretty good (even though it's bigger in size than JF-17). .

You guys do know that the RCS for a JFT size fighter doubles if you have two drop tanks and two bvr's....as that essentially increases the size of the airframe dimensionally equal to that of a loaded -16 with the similar payload...

 

[danger007]

I dont understand where do you people get the hypothesis that JF17 cannot counter and destroy a su30mki.
yes the The KLJ7 can easily detect and track the 15m2 elephant su30MKI and yes an SD10 can take it down Beyond visual range and yes a PL5E or a sindwinder can take ot down in WVR.
Rest depends on the sitiation.
Su30 is more capable then JFT of course it have more weapons more roles better avionics. But that does not mean it cannot be destroyed by a fully armed JFT. Its not a damn WWE wrestling match or a boxing round.
Hell even an ancient mig23 can shoot down su30 flanker with R77 in right situation.

But i am afraid Ultra Nationalist trolls will have hard time to swallow this fact.
Air warfare is not a damn tug of war. there are many factors involved.
And currently there is nothing in indian Airforce Inventory that is totally invincible for PAF amd Vice versa.

Discuss the JFT blk2 here and stop this rubbish d*** measurnment syndrome

lol thanks for your conclusion ... so you wanted to say with better weapon package avionics radar Ew suites MKI can't compete with JF -17. . bcz of lower RCS ...

 

[fatman17]

You guys do know that the RCS for a JFT size fighter doubles if you have two drop tanks and two bvr's....as that essentially increases the size of the airframe dimensionally equal to that of a loaded -16 with the similar payload...

same would apply for others

 

[That Guy]

No joke mate, JF-17 along with F-16s are here to counter SU-30s and all other indian inventory. You don't say 76 F-16s would alone face 500+ modern IAF inventory. Lets be real PAF would throw in whatever we have, we are literally out of options until PAF gets a 5B per anum budget in a far far distant galactic future.

Having a lot of fighters, and being able to deploy them are two different things, especially in today's era. Anyways, the JF-17 is not meant as a counter for the Su-30, because it would be a shitty counter otherwise. PAF is looking to get more F-16s to counter India's Sukhoi fleet, and may be in search of a future fighter to counter India's 5th gen ambitions. The JF-17s are meant as a deterrent against India's larger, but older fleet, and as a replacement for PAF's older fighters.

Like you said The JF-17 is sanction proof machines then why we still rally on USA F-16..i know they are far better then JF-17..but we must also think after american withdrawn from Afghanistan it will hard for us to get F-16 parts..then why we aren't improving our Jf-17 Thunder block 2 more.

Turkey is the answer to Pakistan's F-16 problem, as it always has been. The JF-17 will continue to be developed, and that is one of the major reasons why the PAF budget is stretched so thin, but until the time the JF-17 is ready to handle most of the jobs the F-16 is relied upon to do, PAF has no choice but to go for more F-16s.

 

[Donatello]

You guys do know that the RCS for a JFT size fighter doubles if you have two drop tanks and two bvr's....as that essentially increases the size of the airframe dimensionally equal to that of a loaded -16 with the similar payload...

That's why the word 'clean' was at number 5 position in my sentence that you quoted.

lol thanks for your conclusion ... so you wanted to say with better weapon package avionics radar Ew suites MKI can't compete with JF -17. . bcz of lower RCS ...

What we are talking here is facts. JF-17's KLJ-7 will detect 10 m2 SU30 at about the same range as Su30's radar will detect a 5m2 target. So from detection point of view, that extra range on Su30 is nullified. Both have good BVRs, SD10 contains Russian technology any way, that went into the R7x series. So i am not sure why you think Su30 cannot get into a fight with JF-17? Because Su30 is big in size?
Because India bought it so it must be the best?
Because you are a troll?
Because your local sabzi wala told you so?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Having a lot of fighters, and being able to deploy them are two different things, especially in today's era. Anyways, the JF-17 is not meant as a counter for the Su-30, because it would be a shitty counter otherwise. PAF is looking to get more F-16s to counter India's Sukhoi fleet, and may be in search of a future fighter to counter India's 5th gen ambitions. The JF-17s are meant as a deterrent against India's larger, but older fleet, and as a replacement for PAF's older fighters.

With over 700 aircrafts calculate a certain ratio still 3:1 IAF is very realistic and will deploy in that manner. IAF would not look into PAF small fleet "therefore deploy in small numbers against PAF such soft doctrine does not exist, the point is over whelm opponent...they will they always have. JF-17 is meant to counter anything in indian inventory PAF is literally out of options PAF will use whatever they have against whatever they counter. 76 or even 100 is not enough numbers PAF is depending on its strategies to counter how successful it would be that would be known in any real Air War. More F-16s and improved JF-17s more in numbers would be a good combination however funds is the problem but Gov can always arrange depends on their will to help.

 

[Kompromat]

@Donatello

Sorry, should've mentioned 'detatchable' weapons pod.

@Donatello

Sorry, should've mentioned 'detatchable' weapons pod.

 

[Kompromat]

@Donatello

Sorry, should've mentioned 'detatchable' weapons pod.

 

[SQ8]

@Donatello

Sorry, should've mentioned 'detatchable' weapons pod.

Wont make much difference, think of it in terms of whether the gains would actually justify the cost.
At the end, if all it does is lower the threshold to only the RCS of the Thunder..then really there is no point.