Final trials of home-grown artillery gun start this month

[GURU DUTT]

why are they buying the m777 when this gun is avaliable?

cause M777 is just over 4.5 tones while dhanush is almost 4 times that and is very difficult to tranport on higher reaches of Himlayas while M777 can be tranported like this

 

[Sergi]

Compare the percentage of indigenization in army vs navy
U will get the answers of double standards

Just look at arjun MBT vs bhisma t90

What Plz explain. Not just one liners

It's true army want better stuff than desi stuff. DRDO claim 100 things and deliver 1/2. But let's just say Army had believed in DRDO and bough Arjun instead of T-90. Do tell me how that sized tank would go to NE or NW ???

Arjun is better than T-90 but it has its limits. Only useful in Rajastan and plains of Panjab.

And I am waiting for double standard claim.

why are they buying the m777 when this gun is avaliable?

M777 is light howitzer used for mountain warfare. Weights less take less space so can be put undercover of any mountain to avoid anti artillery Fire

Big guns towed or tracked used shoot and scoot method so they need to fast

I have a doubt. God forbid if there is some issue found during the "final trials", will the procedure start from beginning? I mean will we have to wait another 6 months till they reach "final trails" again.

Normal trials ( induction trials ) last 2 years. They test it in every weather and possible locations ( desert it mountains ). It also help to know the operating envelope of the product.

 

[indiatester]

Normal trials ( induction trials ) last 2 years. They test it in every weather and possible locations ( desert it mountains ). It also help to know the operating envelope of the product.

Sorry to ask again, but can issues in this final phase cause a rejection of the product and test starting again from 0.

 

[Alpha Fighter]

What Plz explain. Not just one liners

It's true army want better stuff than desi stuff. DRDO claim 100 things and deliver 1/2. But let's just say Army had believed in DRDO and bough Arjun instead of T-90. Do tell me how that sized tank would go to NE or NW ???

Arjun is better than T-90 but it has its limits. Only useful in Rajastan and plains of Panjab.

And I am waiting for double standard claim.

When T90 came, it don't AC, night vision etc , Army cant target in Hot desert of Raj, While Army pointed n wanted number of star war kinda featues in Arjun.

Take a n example of IAF, The Trainer plane , IAF want HAL/ DRDO to have Zero Zero seat / pressured cabins etc while buying from ouside they don't required these features.

Normal trials ( induction trials ) last 2 years. They test it in every weather and possible locations ( desert it mountains ). It also help to know the operating envelope of the product.

Why cant trial can be done in single year with multiple gun testing in mountain / desert / under sea if army wanted.

 

[Sergi]

Sorry to ask again, but can issues in this final phase cause a rejection of the product and test starting again from 0.

No there won't be rejection but delay in induction depending on the nature of failure.
Means if gun fail the weather test ( like hot weather test in Rajastan ) it will have to do it again. If the cure is found instant or can be corrected the trial will be conducted same time. This happened when barrel of one gun busted in trials the fault was ammunition quality and the trail continued after replacing barrel and ammo

If a severe problem occur like engine issues of Arjun tank it need full remedy and cost 10-12 months

Rejection is generally in

When T90 came, it don't AC, night vision etc , Army cant target in Hot desert of Raj, While Army pointed n wanted number of star war kinda featues in Arjun.

Says who ??? Do you know what Army was offered ??? All star war gadgets where promised in 50 ton tanks !!!! Yes DRDO promised that so army is just saying do it. Army now even accept the weight and engine of the tank. What else DRDO want to refuse now ????

Take a n example of IAF, The Trainer plane , IAF want HAL/ DRDO to have Zero Zero seat / pressured cabins etc while buying from ouside they don't required these features.

Agains similar claims where made and AF belived it. Buying trainer was operational req . Training can't wait. Even I will agree AF is interested in more shiny stuff when on trainer issue its HAL's fault . They did nothing over the years and when AF selected a trainer suddenly HAL wanted to develop one with own funding !!!!! #AJT.

Why cant trial can be done in single year with multiple gun testing in mountain / desert / under sea if army wanted.

Only 3 guns are ready. Who's fault is that ???
If 12 guns were availbe all the weather and location trials can be done in 1 year.

Same thing happened to LCA and now happening to NLCA and LCH. No of prototypes needed are far less than required.

Trials are hot weather/cold weather/mansoon and high and low altitude. Operational envelope testing

 

[Alpha Fighter]

No there won't be rejection but delay in induction depending on the nature of failure.
Means if gun fail the weather test ( like hot weather test in Rajastan ) it will have to do it again. If the cure is found instant or can be corrected the trial will be conducted same time. This happened when barrel of one gun busted in trials the fault was ammunition quality and the trail continued after replacing barrel and ammo

from internal documents and multiple interviews with MoD sources, an account of how the Indian Army has saddled itself with an underperforming, yet overpriced, version of the Russian T-90.

A) The T-90 would be priced only marginally higher than the T-72 by removing key T-90 systems; Shtora active protection system,

B) Maintenance vehicles, which are vital to keep the T-90s running, were not included in the contract

C) that the T-90s were not battle worthy. The T-90’s thermal imaging (TI) sights, through which the tank aims its 125mm gun, proved unable to function in Indian summer temperatures.

D) INVAR missiles assembled in India simply didn’t work. Since nobody knew why, they were sent back to Russia.

F) Even more alarmingly, the army discovered that the T-90 sighting systems could not fire Indian tank ammunition, which was falling short of the targets

G) The army has decided to fit each T-90 with an Environment Control System, to cool the delicate electronics with a stream of chilled air .

None of the world’s current tanks, other than France’s LeClerc, has such a system. The American Abrams and the British Challenger tanks fought in the Iraq desert without air-conditioning. India’s Arjun tank, too, has “hardened” electronics that function perfectly even in the Rajasthan summer.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/02/t-90-tank-piercing-armys-armour-of.html

If a severe problem occur like engine issues of Arjun tank it need full remedy and cost 10-12 months

That proved to rectified , and also pointed to sabotaged angle..

Rejection is generally in

Says who ??? Do you know what Army was offered ??? All star war gadgets where promised in 50 ton tanks !!!! Yes DRDO promised that so army is just saying do it. Army now even accept the weight and engine of the tank. What else DRDO want to refuse now ????

Did you know ???
A) Army asked to build the Tank with 4 Men Crews , So Army want a tank which can have 4 crew and size , weight of T-90

Against similar claims where made and AF believed it. Buying trainer was operational req . Training can't wait. Even I will agree AF is interested in more shiny stuff when on trainer issue its HAL's fault . They did nothing over the years and when AF selected a trainer suddenly HAL wanted to develop one with own funding !!!!! #AJT.

The Wanted list of AF like Zero Zero Seat / pressurised cabins was not available with any trainners, but just to prolong the development IAF demanded from the DRDO/ HAL.

Just like Tejas, Just to keep changes the goal post, Just See JF-17 / Euro/ Rafael planes, when inducted they only able to perform one function , either ground role or air role, non of them are Multi- role fighter when they are inducted.

BUT IAF want Multi-role fighter from the start just to long the development cycle and scrap the project.

Only 3 guns are ready. Who's fault is that ???

If 12 guns were available all the weather and location trials can be done in 1 year.

Every trail is takes 3-4 yrs. trail for light GUN also gone for 3-4 yrs. this process need to be changed.

Same thing happened to LCA and now happening to NLCA and LCH. No of prototypes needed are far less than required.

Trials are hot weather/cold weather/mansoon and high and low altitude. Operational envelope testing

Navy is working with DRDO and see the level on Indian content with them...... they are happy with NLCA and also partly funding the program.

What happened with T-90 , if happened with Arjun , IA will declared it failed. Any tank which cannot fire in RAJ desert is failed tank , still Army bought it T-90? why?

The failure of T-90 is more serious then Arjun tank problems.

 

[Sergi]

from internal documents and multiple interviews with MoD sources, an account of how the Indian Army has saddled itself with an underperforming, yet overpriced, version of the Russian T-90.

A) The T-90 would be priced only marginally higher than the T-72 by removing key T-90 systems; Shtora active protection system,

B) Maintenance vehicles, which are vital to keep the T-90s running, were not included in the contract

C) that the T-90s were not battle worthy. The T-90’s thermal imaging (TI) sights, through which the tank aims its 125mm gun, proved unable to function in Indian summer temperatures.

D) INVAR missiles assembled in India simply didn’t work. Since nobody knew why, they were sent back to Russia.

F) Even more alarmingly, the army discovered that the T-90 sighting systems could not fire Indian tank ammunition, which was falling short of the targets

G) The army has decided to fit each T-90 with an Environment Control System, to cool the delicate electronics with a stream of chilled air .

None of the world’s current tanks, other than France’s LeClerc, has such a system. The American Abrams and the British Challenger tanks fought in the Iraq desert without air-conditioning. India’s Arjun tank, too, has “hardened” electronics that function perfectly even in the Rajasthan summer.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/02/t-90-tank-piercing-armys-armour-of.html

Let's say everything is correct. What's army's option ????
They didn't have any option back then

That proved to rectified , and also pointed to sabotaged angle..

Not arguing on that.

Did you know ???
A) Army asked to build the Tank with 4 Men Crews , So Army want a tank which can have 4 crew and size , weight of T-90

And why would DRDO agree to that ????? AFAIK Arjun is brain child of DRDO and not Army. Gadgets promised by DRDO now army is just asking what was promised. Army roll back on weight issue and engine. Now what's stoping DRDO from fast track process ??? M1A was field tested in 2013. Go to sticky thread and find my post and reported the test success there.

The Wanted list of AF like Zero Zero Seat / pressurised cabins was not available with any trainners, but just to prolong the development IAF demanded from the DRDO/ HAL.

I already replied to that. You can google the trainer development and even you will find who's fault is that.

Just like Tejas, Just to keep changes the goal post, Just See JF-17 / Euro/ Rafael planes, when inducted they only able to perform one function , either ground role or air role, non of them are Multi- role fighter when they are inducted.

BUT IAF want Multi-role fighter from the start just to long the development cycle and scrap the project.

Dude you are biased. And about changing goal posts match ends in given time then no matter how many times you score it doesn't count !!!!!

Remember Mr. Big Mouth Sarasvat publicly promising stealth version of LCA called Mark-3 in few years and in next month admitting DM that he wont be able to keep the time line for LSPs ?????

Every trail is takes 3-4 yrs. trail for light GUN also gone for 3-4 yrs. this process need to be changed.

Don't know what's this about.

Navy is working with DRDO and see the level on Indian content with them...... they are happy with NLCA and also partly funding the program.

Yes Navy is working with HAL/DRDO better than Army and AF becase they are doing what Navy want and not that our PSUs can develope.
With interest and funding PSUs don't see IN as customer no 1. Total 6 protos of NLCA are needed on 2 are made. Still recent there wasn't a dedicated team for NLCA

What happened with T-90 , if happened with Arjun , IA will declared it failed. Any tank which cannot fire in RAJ desert is failed tank , still Army bought it T-90? why?

The failure of T-90 is more serious then Arjun tank problems.

Yes and hope rectified. But still point being what's army's other options ??? None.
Same goes for Arjun what's it gona do in NE & NW mountain terains.
More of the fact Arjun is forced on Army which was better familiar with Russian tanks from decades.
It was only 2013 tests where Arjun outrun and out gun T-90 in Raj they downed the weight and engine issue and ready to accept

Plz DONT USE BOLDED AND COLOURED FONT Its annoying to read.

 

[Sergi]

About double standard issue:
Army's last render for modern AR is scrapped as none of the contenders passed all weather tests.
New one will come soon

 

[punit]

Lol............efed up Indian Army and firangi maal.

Only Desi Maal is subjected to this much torture.

T-90s tanks were never tested in India, first batch of 310 tanks, 2nd batch of 330 tanks, 3rd batch of 347 tanks...more than 1300 tanks were ordered without being properly tested. Yet another 1000 were ordered by the army under TOT, to be produced by Avadi. Russians only gave 40% of TOT, this is the reason, Avadi cannot start production of T-90 tanks.

Look at Brahmos, it's supposed to be 50/50 partnership but still only 35% is indigenous.

But indigenous maal needs to go thru all different types of torturous testing. Y so much love for firangi maal?

It's good enough, U can upgrade it in future batches. That's what other manufacturers have been doing all this time. Fking double standard.

Pisses me the *uck off!!!!!!

so the sarkari maal should be inducted without any trial !

from internal documents and multiple interviews with MoD sources, an account of how the Indian Army has saddled itself with an underperforming, yet overpriced, version of the Russian T-90.

A) The T-90 would be priced only marginally higher than the T-72 by removing key T-90 systems; Shtora active protection system,

B) Maintenance vehicles, which are vital to keep the T-90s running, were not included in the contract

C) that the T-90s were not battle worthy. The T-90’s thermal imaging (TI) sights, through which the tank aims its 125mm gun, proved unable to function in Indian summer temperatures.

D) INVAR missiles assembled in India simply didn’t work. Since nobody knew why, they were sent back to Russia.

F) Even more alarmingly, the army discovered that the T-90 sighting systems could not fire Indian tank ammunition, which was falling short of the targets

G) The army has decided to fit each T-90 with an Environment Control System, to cool the delicate electronics with a stream of chilled air .

None of the world’s current tanks, other than France’s LeClerc, has such a system. The American Abrams and the British Challenger tanks fought in the Iraq desert without air-conditioning. India’s Arjun tank, too, has “hardened” electronics that function perfectly even in the Rajasthan summer.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/02/t-90-tank-piercing-armys-armour-of.html



That proved to rectified , and also pointed to sabotaged angle..



Did you know ???
A) Army asked to build the Tank with 4 Men Crews , So Army want a tank which can have 4 crew and size , weight of T-90



The Wanted list of AF like Zero Zero Seat / pressurised cabins was not available with any trainners, but just to prolong the development IAF demanded from the DRDO/ HAL.

Just like Tejas, Just to keep changes the goal post, Just See JF-17 / Euro/ Rafael planes, when inducted they only able to perform one function , either ground role or air role, non of them are Multi- role fighter when they are inducted.

BUT IAF want Multi-role fighter from the start just to long the development cycle and scrap the project.



Every trail is takes 3-4 yrs. trail for light GUN also gone for 3-4 yrs. this process need to be changed.



Navy is working with DRDO and see the level on Indian content with them...... they are happy with NLCA and also partly funding the program.

What happened with T-90 , if happened with Arjun , IA will declared it failed. Any tank which cannot fire in RAJ desert is failed tank , still Army bought it T-90? why?

The failure of T-90 is more serious then Arjun tank problems.

one piece of advice .. stop using Ajay Shukla blog as base of your argument. the guy is an A. Hole of 1st order.

 

[Abingdonboy]

why are they buying the m777 when this gun is avaliable?

The M777 is for the newly raised Mountain Strike Corps (MSC) that is to be deployed in the East to cover China. The MSC has to be highly air-mobile and thus the M777 is the perfect candidate given that it is an ULH. As the name suggests, the MSC is being designed to fight in the mountains and thus require light weight highly mobile solutions.

Another hint, the first of the IAF's newly purchased Chinooks will be deployed in the East also:

 

[Blue Marlin]

The M777 is for the newly raised Mountain Strike Corps (MSC) that is to be deployed in the East to cover China. The MSC has to be highly air-mobile and thus the M777 is the perfect candidate given that it is an ULH. As the name suggests, the MSC is being designed to fight in the mountains and thus require light weight highly mobile solutions.

Another hint, the first of the IAF's newly purchased Chinooks will be deployed in the East also:

thanks @GURU DUTT beat you to it in answering it first

 

[Alpha Fighter]

Let's say everything is correct. What's army's option ????
They didn't have any option back then

Army has option, for the same price they getting T-72 armed with night vision , protection etc. on less price.
Army is so much blind that for foreign products.

What the use T-90 tanks of they cant fire ? they are as good as junk then and not having it?

And why would DRDO agree to that ????? AFAIK Arjun is brain child of DRDO and not Army. Gadgets promised by DRDO now army is just asking what was promised. Army roll back on weight issue and engine. Now what's stoping DRDO from fast track process ??? M1A was field tested in 2013. Go to sticky thread and find my post and reported the test success there.

Army Released the SQR, according to which they need 4 Crew tank, armour which take point blank blast. DRDO never promised that n weight.

IA pointed so many flaws, if you compares flaw of T-90 , then those are nothing in front of it. IA forced to accept Arjun when DRDO made them conduct face to face trial. The IA tried to another thing, Now put the mine plough on Arjun so it again delayed.

IA released the its future tank requirement , The World tank makers laughs at IA , They nothing but bunch of clowns. IA don't have any Tank philosophy. e.g Russian tank Philosophy are based small light tank , which can move fast in large number and attack big tanks. US has tank philosophy that Bigger tank that can target from distance. etc . Like this IA don't have any tank based philosophy , in short they don't what they to do with tanks and why they required tanks for.

DRDO forced Army to do T90 Vs Arjun on 2010 , after Army blocked those trial for 2-3 yrs.

I already replied to that. You can google the trainer development and even you will find who's fault is that.

If DRDO has to develop plane like swiss one , then it take less time.

Dude you are biased. And about changing goal posts match ends in given time then no matter how many times you score it doesn't count !!!!!

Well , if you talking about Euro fighter / JFT / Rafael , each take 4-5 yrs to have multi role capability. Tejas has already achieved bombing capability few yrs back. IAF should have inducted that tejas as a bomber plane and A2A will be added alter like every other plane in the world have done.

Remember Mr. Big Mouth Sarasvat publicly promising stealth version of LCA called Mark-3 in few years and in next month admitting DM that he wont be able to keep the time line for LSPs ?????

Yes, when the plane design of Tejas is over the design team will be sitting ideal, Instead of sitting ideal , they should be designing the New plane design , This is called optimization of work resources. by 2020 the new Tejas design would have been ready.

Yes Navy is working with HAL/DRDO better than Army and AF becase they are doing what Navy want and not that our PSUs can develope.
With interest and funding PSUs don't see IN as customer no 1. Total 6 protos of NLCA are needed on 2 are made. Still recent there wasn't a dedicated team for NLCA

because IN have better coordination with DRDO / they fund projects unlike AF / IN which do not work along with DRDO from designing phase. Well ILCA requirement is totally different then IAF and plane was redesigned according to Navy. Still NLCA is developed at faster pace the IAF.

Yes and hope rectified. But still point being what's army's other options ??? None.
Same goes for Arjun what's it gona do in NE & NW mountain terains.
More of the fact Arjun is forced on Army which was better familiar with Russian tanks from decades.
It was only 2013 tests where Arjun outrun and out gun T-90 in Raj they downed the weight and engine issue and ready to accept

Plz DONT USE BOLDED AND COLOURED FONT Its annoying to read.

A) trial was done in 2010 after 3 yrs delayed by army from one pretext to another.
B) Ask any Tank Men about Arjun, they will only praise and tell u how its good then T-90
C) Any tank which cannot target , is as good as not having it. So it a waste at that time. isn't ? they can upgrade T-72
D) Army don't have any Tank philosophy, unlike Russians and world
F) For NE / mountains, they need light tank of 25-30T category, not even T-90 go their.

so the sarkari maal should be inducted without any trial !


one piece of advice .. stop using Ajay Shukla blog as base of your argument. the guy is an A. Hole of 1st order.

I am only using it to highlight the t-90 problem, I can get the same problems from different news / blogs etc. Problems with T-90 remained the same.

 

[SR-91]

@SR-91 : development trial happen everywhere BY DEVELOPERS.

User trials also happen everywhere by End user. even for Brahmos.

When you buy a defence product its already in use so most of users don't conduct trials they Practice. Different thing.

T-90 was our only option and follow on logical action.

AFAIK these are induction trials. This help user to write SOP manual. Pros Cons limits of product

That's all good yaar, but the point is was trying to make was that Indian Army will close their eyes and buy products from Russia without properly testing their products. For instance, Army team was sent to Russia to test out T -90 for Indian Army in winter time. Many say the team never went to the the tank perform, they stayed indoor with blond women. In the end, It was a show case move by IA, they didn't care how T-90 will perform in treacherous condition of India. They also knew, they will have a hard time getting parts from their manufacturers, it happened.

T-90 weren't tested in summer, reason being, in summer all electronics will malfunction due to intense heat and T-90s doesn't have AC to keep em cool. Do you remember MOD trying to buy ACs for their tanks. Electronics malfunctioning in intense heat was the reason. Army didn't care but they still ordered hundreds of them, by 2020, IA will have over 1600 of them.

That's my point bro, Army blindedly bought T-90s knowing they will have many issues, spare parts, getting full TOT from Russia will be a huge challenge, tank will not perform well in Indian conditions. They didn't care.

Now look at MK2, it has over 90 new changes. When tested against each other, Arjun MK2 outperformed T-90ms in every crucial parameters, but still "it has many issues that needs to be resolved". Indian Army officers that were present at the testing site, were impressed with Arjun. Even after outperforming T-90s, IA is only giving a "defensive role" to Arjun. Come-on .
Which tank doesn't have issues? I'm only pointing out to double standards of IA. Indian army needs to cut the crap out and induct Mk2 ASAP. Everything will fall in its place.

i say the best becomes better when he is subjected to extra testing .... cheers mate

Very true bro, but at what and whos expense?

so the sarkari maal should be inducted without any trial !

Nahi yaar, of course it needs to be tested, we HAVE to test them. While testing, we need to push it to its limits. Dhanush is upgraded Bofors, right? Is bofor tested? If yes, why the trials so extensive?

It's not like IA tests everything, it buys. A lot of procurements from Russia didn't even have proper testing. That is what I'm trying to point out. Foreign maal doesn't need so much testing but design maal needs torturous trials. That's all.

 

[Sergi]

Army has option, for the same price they getting T-72 armed with night vision , protection etc. on less price.

I don't think you are aware of Russian tank versions or just turning a blind eye.
T-80 was supposed to replace T-72 in USSR. But 1st Chechen war damaged it's reputation so comes T-90. I think Pak have T-80 from Ukrain. So going for T-72 wasn't a choice. There was a project called tank X to use T-72 body and Arjun turret. Failed .

I said lets just agree T-90 has problems. I have first hand information that all the fail claims are not rule. And I have seen both Arjun and T-90S in action. So yes there isn't a problem now if there ever was.

Army is so much blind that for foreign products.

T-72 was never a option for IA to go. Agree or not we bough what Russians bought for themselves. Period.

What the use T-90 tanks of they cant fire ? they are as good as junk then and not having it?

I have wont say how I can tell you in 2013 "T-90 firing shells while moving and scoring 7 of 10 hits and Arjun 9 of 10" so not a junk. There is tank compitition in Russia where most of world participate have a look.

Army Released the SQR, according to which they need 4 Crew tank, armour which take point blank blast. DRDO never promised that n weight.

AFAIK Arjun development started according to SQR and SQR has full details including weight dimensions and features. That's necessary cause we use rail for tank transport. You are more than welcome to prove me wrong.

IA pointed so many flaws, if you compares flaw of T-90 , then those are nothing in front of it. IA forced to accept Arjun when DRDO made them conduct face to face trial. The IA tried to another thing, Now put the mine plough on Arjun so it again delayed.

again T-72 or 80 wasn't option. We bought what makers buying them self Mine plough or furrow is passed in 2013.
@SR-91 : point for both of you. I am not saying it wasnt a curroption free deal. Deal might have vested interests. We don't know. But today T-90S or even MS is a far better choice over 72.
We didn't have any choice.

IA released the its future tank requirement , The World tank makers laughs at IA ,

And are you sure DRDO refused to build something like that Plz tell me. M not sure whats DRDO's take on future tank
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-proposals-for-building-tanks-drdo-surprised/
DRDO already has plans for so called stupid req before IA asks for it.

They nothing but bunch of clowns. IA don't have any Tank philosophy. e.g Russian tank Philosophy are based small light tank , which can move fast in large number and attack big tanks. US has tank philosophy that Bigger tank that can target from distance. etc . Like this IA don't have any tank based philosophy

BS. Find some retiry form tank core and you will come to know.
Russian philosophy is troops support like Germans in WW2
USA is fire support

, in short they don't what they to do with tanks and why they required tanks for.

(A little hard but necessary remark don't mind) and you do !?!

DRDO forced Army to do T90 Vs Arjun on 2010 , after Army blocked those trial for 2-3 yrs.

YOU ARE CONTINUOUSLY IGNORING THE FACT ARJUN CANT GO IN NE OR NW !!!!!!!
Army in love with Russian tank didn't want to have 2 types for no reason. After Arjun shows might they agree.
And correction DRDO didn't force they simply can't. It's was the differences in IA brass that cause that test. Can't go in details of that.

If DRDO has to develop plane like swiss one , then it take less time.

You didn't Google , did you ???
I'm very lazy in typing. Will do it in points
3 type of trainers 1. Basic 2. Intermediate 3. Advance. AKA Basic/IJT/AJT. They did nothing for 5 years. They wake up after IAF chose the bird.

Well , if you talking about Euro fighter / JFT / Rafael , each take 4-5 yrs to have multi role capability. Tejas has already achieved bombing capability few yrs back. IAF should have inducted that tejas as a bomber plane and A2A will be added alter like every other plane in the world have done.

LCA is best example of mismanaged project !!! I can link many experts claiming that. But I won't. It's a known fact.
Initial idea was to replace Mig-21s and mind you 21s are not bombers. How in world you replace an intercepter with bomber ???
So what's wrong here ??? Didn't DRDO knew they are making an replacement for point defence and intercepter platform ??? Why have air to ground first before A to A ???

You said about changing goal post . Just go through DRDO statements while Saraswat was in chair ..... Huge claims. Best in class best in world. Will have this will have that. Have a stealth version I don't blame IAF to want something that DRDO cheif is claiming to have !!!!

Yes, when the plane design of Tejas is over the design team will be sitting ideal, Instead of sitting ideal , they should be designing the New plane design , This is called optimization of work resources. by 2020 the new Tejas design would have been ready.

LCA M1A is last of LCA we would see after NLCA. There will be or might have been a new project already , new design not redesign

because IN have better coordination with DRDO / they fund projects unlike AF / IN which do not work along with DRDO from designing phase. Well ILCA requirement is totally different then IAF and plane was redesigned according to Navy. Still NLCA is developed at faster pace the IAF.

Navy has its own design buro unlike IA & IAF for lack of funds. And they did well. But here too when IN asked DRDO about a light weight fighter for carrier instead of making new design we decide to convert LCA to NLCA. totally wrong approach to develope a carriers born jet !!!!

A) trial was done in 2010 after 3 yrs delayed by army from one pretext to another.

B) Ask any Tank Men about Arjun, they will only praise and tell u how its good then T-90

Then you are NOT reading what I am writing. I'm saying the same think. But the dam tank CANT go in NE and NW !!!!' Do you get it or NOT

!!!'nountains, they need light tank of 25-30T category, not even T-90 go their.

T-90S can go in most if places in NE and all places in NW. Fact

I am only using it to highlight the t-90 problem, I can get the same problems from different news / blogs etc. Problems with T-90 remained the same.

If they were they are solved ages ago. You can't change the way Ajay Shukala work. Paid for job.

@alfa fighter : bro m resting my case. I can't over look and I can't explain why ( for my own reasons ) So m better out of it.
Nice arguing with you. Gn

 

[Killswitch]

The army is the worst of the 3 services when it comes to accepting and fielding new weapons platforms. New guns were required in 1999 during Kargil. It has been 17 YEARS and the army is still behaving in a ridiculous way demanding perfection when its artillery inventory is a complete joke. If a war happens and the army complains about its equipment they will get no sympathy from me. These guns could have been rolling off the lines for at least a year now if it wasnt for the fools in the army who have a say in these matters. Induct the systems and work out the teething probelms as time goes on, instead of demanding perfection and having no systems to deploy when they are required.