Few past facts about PA tank purchases

[HAIDER]

In August 1988, General Ziaul Haq witnessed the final trial run of American made Abraham tanks at the Army's tank trial site at Khairpur Tamewali near Bahawalpur while allegations of kickbacks, from senior army circles, were also rife. On the same day when he visited the trial site, Gen Ziaul Haq's plane, also carrying the top military brass crashed mysteriously not far from Khairpur Tamewali.

• While Gen Zia had favored the US built M1 Abrams for a whopping US$700 million purchase, his successor Gen Mirza Aslam Beg opted for the US $1 billion Al-Khalid manufacturing plant to build 2000 main battle tanks with Chinese cooperation. While Gen Beg's US$1 billion Al-Khalid plan was still operational, his successor Gen Asif Nawaz went full swing to conclude a US$ 450 million purchase for 320 T-72 tanks from Poland. Before the deal could be finalized, General Asif Nawaz died mysteriously.

General Asif Nawaz’ successor Gen Abdul Wahid Kakar's team of experts rejected the deal out rightly, citing the reasons that could form the basis for a NAB investigation. Gen Abdul Wahid Kakar then targeted the Al-Khalid program.

• In 1996, General Jehangir Karamat, successor to General Waheed, however, focused on the purchase of Russian tanks from Ukraine. He struck a US$550 million deal with Ukraine, which at that time did not even have a diplomatic presence in Pakistan for 320 T- 80 UD tanks. General Asif Nawaz had finalized plans to buy the same 320 tanks for $ 450 million. The deal finally cost US $ 650 million to the nation. A course mate of General Jahangir Karamat, Colonel (retd) Mahmood had played a key role in bringing the GHQ and the Ukrainian government close to a deal.

It is rumoured that during his last meeting with Gen Jehangir Karamat, former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif indicated to the former COAS the outcome of his probe against the Ukrainian tank deal in case he refused to resign. Jahangir Karamat chose to resign rather than face the inquiry.

 

[Maarkhoor]

In August 1988, General Ziaul Haq witnessed the final trial run of American made Abraham tanks at the Army's tank trial site at Khairpur Tamewali near Bahawalpur while allegations of kickbacks, from senior army circles, were also rife. On the same day when he visited the trial site, Gen Ziaul Haq's plane, also carrying the top military brass crashed mysteriously not far from Khairpur Tamewali.

• While Gen Zia had favored the US built M1 Abrams for a whopping US$700 million purchase, his successor Gen Mirza Aslam Beg opted for the US $1 billion Al-Khalid manufacturing plant to build 2000 main battle tanks with Chinese cooperation. While Gen Beg's US$1 billion Al-Khalid plan was still operational, his successor Gen Asif Nawaz went full swing to conclude a US$ 450 million purchase for 320 T-72 tanks from Poland. Before the deal could be finalized, General Asif Nawaz died mysteriously.

General Asif Nawaz’ successor Gen Abdul Wahid Kakar's team of experts rejected the deal out rightly, citing the reasons that could form the basis for a NAB investigation. Gen Abdul Wahid Kakar then targeted the Al-Khalid program.

• In 1996, General Jehangir Karamat, successor to General Waheed, however, focused on the purchase of Russian tanks from Ukraine. He struck a US$550 million deal with Ukraine, which at that time did not even have a diplomatic presence in Pakistan for 320 T- 80 UD tanks. General Asif Nawaz had finalized plans to buy the same 320 tanks for $ 450 million. The deal finally cost US $ 650 million to the nation. A course mate of General Jahangir Karamat, Colonel (retd) Mahmood had played a key role in bringing the GHQ and the Ukrainian government close to a deal.

It is rumoured that during his last meeting with Gen Jehangir Karamat, former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif indicated to the former COAS the outcome of his probe against the Ukrainian tank deal in case he refused to resign. Jahangir Karamat chose to resign rather than face the inquiry.

Plain bullshit ...Our Generals are dying for tank deals.....lolss

 

[SQ8]

Plain bullshit ...Our Generals are dying for tank deals.....lolss

Making money for tank deals perhaps.. a lot of money.

 

[Mrc]

What's the issue I don't understand...

Abrahams rejected... good decision other wise armor would have been crippled like airforce...

Alkhalid.... excellent long term decision worth 10 times money paid for it

T 72 .... rejected.... watch videos from Syria on ******** ... it's a great decision

Ukraine t 80 ud..... yes caz alkhalid also uses Ukrainian engine...
So good deal...

Generals did corruption.... I m sure some did....

But I don't see the exact issue we are getting at here

 

[Maarkhoor]

Making money for tank deals perhaps.. a lot of money.

Dear Bro check the post first which I replied neither Gen. Zia nor Gen. Asif Nawaz died or killed due to corruption but for political reasons.

 

[Signalian]

• While Gen Zia had favored the US built M1 Abrams for a whopping US$700 million purchase, his successor Gen Mirza Aslam Beg opted for the US $1 billion Al-Khalid manufacturing plant to build 2000 main battle tanks with Chinese cooperation. While Gen Beg's US$1 billion Al-Khalid plan was still operational, his successor Gen Asif Nawaz went full swing to conclude a US$ 450 million purchase for 320 T-72 tanks from Poland. Before the deal could be finalized, General Asif Nawaz died mysteriously.

50 M1 offered. gun targeting problems. Pakistan got more M-48's in mid-1980's.

 

[Dazzler]

50 M1 offered. gun targeting problems. Pakistan got more M-48's in mid-1980's.

Type-59Ms scored more kills than M1s.

 

[Signalian]

Type-59Ms scored more kills than M1s.

yes true.

 

[PradoTLC]

In August 1988, General Ziaul Haq witnessed the final trial Gen Jehangir Karamat, former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif indicated to the former COAS the outcome of his probe against the Ukrainian tank deal in case he refused to resign. Jahangir Karamat chose to resign rather than face the inquiry.

Re: this is clearly Noonie league non sense... Nawaz is horribly corrupt (General Zinni's words) and this guy would make an inquiry???

just lol x 2000

is their corruption in the Army.. Yes but it is chicken feed compared to the civilians and further the corrupter s are eventually court marshaled such what General Raheel did. One just has to see how well maintained Military bases and welfare of it;s service men is taken care of to see there clearly isnt the kind of corruption in civilian institutions. Case in point take a look at any military hospital v military.. the difference is night and day

 

[Signalian]

• In 1996, General Jehangir Karamat, successor to General Waheed, however, focused on the purchase of Russian tanks from Ukraine. He struck a US$550 million deal with Ukraine, which at that time did not even have a diplomatic presence in Pakistan for 320 T- 80 UD tanks. General Asif Nawaz had finalized plans to buy the same 320 tanks for $ 450 million. The deal finally cost US $ 650 million to the nation. A course mate of General Jahangir Karamat, Colonel (retd) Mahmood had played a key role in bringing the GHQ and the Ukrainian government close to a deal.

T-80UD is one of the reasons India looked towards T-90.

T 72 .... rejected.... watch videos from Syria on ******** ... it's a great decision

Its said that B3 is a formidable upgrade to T-72.

Abrahams rejected... good decision other wise armor would have been crippled like airforce...

Leopard 2/Leclrec should have been assessed after Abrams.

The weight issue for Leclerc could have been curtailed, the modern MBT's that PA is testing are in 50T+ league.

UAE crews are satisfied with Leclerc's performance.

 

[Mrc]

T-80UD is one of the reasons India looked towards T-90.


Its said that B3 is a formidable upgrade to T-72.


Leopard 2/Leclrec should have been assessed after Abrams.

The weight issue for Leclerc could have been curtailed, the modern MBT's that PA is testing are in 50T+ league.

UAE crews are satisfied with Leclerc's performance.

I m not an expert but to me having a local industry is more important than buying an expensive foreign item that would have been obsolete by now...

Plus the export variants are never the same ... Iraqis recently ditched their M1A2s for T90s... caz M1A2 export variant that they have ( no depleted uranium in armor) is performing worse than t 90s...


Alkhalid may not be on top but its ours....

And nothing is stopping us from taking it to top...

Having local industry and experience allowed us to modify t 59s for tribal areas who performed very well there and still are perched on mountains there...

Plus after spending 50 billion usd on t 90s 1420 of them ... India is still facing 700 ak and aki ... with ak2 under development 300 uds and 300 upgraded t 85s... if we had bought a foreign tank, we would have been finished by now

In terms of money

 

[BRAVO_]

someone has a doubt about the corruption of our armed forces officers???? (obviously not all but many)
You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.

 

[Signalian]

I m not an expert but to me having a local industry is more important than buying an expensive foreign item that would have been obsolete by now...

Plus the export variants are never the same ... Iraqis recently ditched their M1A2s for T90s... caz M1A2 export variant that they have ( no depleted uranium in armor) is performing worse than t 90s...


Alkhalid may not be on top but its ours....

And nothing is stopping us from taking it to top...

Having local industry and experience allowed us to modify t 59s for tribal areas who performed very well there and still are perched on mountains there...

Plus after spending 50 billion usd on t 90s 1420 of them ... India is still facing 700 ak and aki ... with ak2 under development 300 uds and 300 upgraded t 85s... if we had bought a foreign tank, we would have been finished by now

In terms of money

Mixing technologies is also good. Western + Chinese, and this has been happening in Pakistan's case.

 

[bananarepublic]

Mixing technologies is also good. Western + Chinese, and this has been happening in Pakistan's case.

We have become mature in out mbt manufacturing so i belive its time to start our own R&D with help of others . we should start small as we are financially restricted your thoughts ??

 

[Signalian]

We have become mature in out mbt manufacturing so i belive its time to start our own R&D with help of others . we should start small as we are financially restricted your thoughts ??

HIT started with T-series Tank Rebuild factory. These T series were Chinese Tanks but from Russian Origin. Then the M series Rebuild Factory started with older M-48 Tanks.

I mentioned Leclerc, Leopard 2 because an advanced European tank would have helped in technological progress of the factories much faster, in the absence of Abrams. Lets hope for the best regarding AK-II.