Fawad Chaudhry launches 'Pakistan's first official' moonsighting website

[M. Sarmad]

If under One Khalifa, there were different start and Eids in distant areas or otherwise then we have precedent set by the very best of the companions of Prophet PBUH.

There is a supposedly Sahih report suggesting that even under one Khalifa (Muawiyah I), there were different 'starts and Eids' in Medina and Syria.

 

[Verve]

There is a supposedly Sahih report suggesting that even under one Khalifa (Muawiyah I), there were different 'starts and Eids' in Medina and Syria.

I'm only seeking the decisions of Khulfa-e-rashideen.

@criticalerror @I.R.A ... Any input on my query?

 

[criticalerror]

The Sahih Hadith clearly mentions that early Arabs did not do Hisab/calculations because they were unlettered/illiterate at that time. The Holy Prophet did not order the Muslims to remain illiterate, and not use 'Hisab' till eternity..... If you want us to vindicate your point of view, you're going to have to to prove to us that moon’s calculations are ‘forbidden’ in Islam or that Islam categorically disallows Muslims to use lunar calculations..

Crescent’s calculations are no longer astrologers' estimations. During the last few decades their accuracy has been established beyond doubt by consistent observations.

And even in the early days of Islam when the calculations were not very accurate, a few ulema, in fact, did permit the use of calculations for determining Ramazan and Eid dates. Do some research on it.



There are at least 3 different opinions of ulema in this regard.

I like how the moment i debunk one theory you come up with an entirely different one. First it was to prove moon sighting was even part of Islam. Now it’s where is calculating before hand prohibited.

The Hadith clearly states “Do Not Fast unless you sight the crescent..”. What does that mean in your opinion ? Please tell me my comprehension is not up to scratch because that clearly states do not start fasting till you see the crescent. This is as clear a prohibition you can get to not fast without sighting the moon.

Also note i do not wish anyone to vindicate my stance. On the contrary i said this Hadeeth vindicates my stance.

Calculating is not forbidden, it cannot be used as the main source. That is my point. Otherwise there are also Hadeeth where the Messenger (PBUH) asked us to count the days of Shaban so we can know when Ramzan will be upon us.

As for ulema , you are free to follow any Mullah/Alim/Scholar you wish. That is your opinion/ interpretation. What you shouldn’t do is sell it as permissible. That is because the majority view is that it isn’t permissible.

 

[criticalerror]

I'm only seeking the decisions of Khulfa-e-rashideen.

@criticalerror @I.R.A ... Any input on my query?

Brother i have limited knowledge on this query. But i will certainly look it up. Caliphates used to use fast horses to bring any witness/ person who sighted the moon.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I like how the moment i debunk one theory you come up with an entirely different one. First it was to prove moon sighting was even part of Islam. Now it’s where is calculating before hand prohibited.

The Hadith clearly states “Do Not Fast unless you sight the crescent..”. What does that mean in your opinion ? Please tell me my comprehension is not up to scratch because that clearly states do not start fasting till you see the crescent. This is as clear a prohibition you can get to not fast without sighting the moon.

Also note i do not wish anyone to vindicate my stance. On the contrary i said this Hadeeth vindicates my stance.

Calculating is not forbidden, it cannot be used as the main source. That is my point. Otherwise there are also Hadeeth where the Messenger (PBUH) asked us to count the days of Shaban so we can know when Ramzan will be upon us.

As for ulema , you are free to follow any Mullah/Alim/Scholar you wish. That is your opinion/ interpretation. What you shouldn’t do is sell it as permissible. That is because the majority view is that it isn’t permissible.

You didn't debunk anything, my friend.
And you haven't been able to bring forward even a single strong argument so far.
Anyway, no point in going in circles now. You are posting the same things over and over again. All of this has already been answered.

Calculating is not forbidden.....

So we agree on this!
Have a nice Day!

 

[criticalerror]

You didn't debunk anything, my friend.
And you haven't been able to bring forward even a single strong argument so far.
Anyway, no point in going in circles now. You are posting the same things over and over again. All of this has already been answered.
Have a nice Day!

I agree. Debunking can only be done to something that has a modicum of being a theory. On the contrary, i gave a Hadeeth prohibiting the beginning of Fasting WITHOUT sighting the moon. That is all the “strong argument “ i need. Whether you wish to address this Hadeeth or not, is entirely up to you. For me it is open and shut. For you it might not be. Let’s agree to disagree there.

Also i never stated calculation is prohibited. It can not be used as the main source for declaration of Ramzan. My point still stands.

 

[M. Sarmad]

I agree. Debunking can only be done to something that has a modicum of being a theory. On the contrary, i gave a Hadeeth prohibiting the beginning of Fasting WITHOUT sighting the moon. That is all the “strong argument “ i need. Whether you wish to address this Hadeeth or not, is entirely up to you. For me it is open and shut. For you it might not be. Let’s agree to disagree there.

Also i never stated calculation is prohibited. It can not be used as the main source for declaration of Ramzan. My point still stands.

Well, your "strong argument" has already been refuted, just read again

Khair, whatever helps you sleep at night

And please don't quote me again unless you have something new to discuss ...

 

[criticalerror]

Well, your strong argument has already been refuted, just read again

Khair, whatever helps you sleep at night

And please don't quote me again unless you have something new to discuss ...

No it hasn’t been. You replied with an unrelated Hadeeth stating the Muslim ummah is illiterate and doesn’t calculate. Refute is a stretch even by your standards.

Also i have absolutely no wish to quote you. But i must reply if you quote me. You should take your own advice.

 

[M. Sarmad]

No it hasn’t been. You replied with an unrelated Hadeeth stating the Muslim ummah is illiterate and doesn’t calculate. Refute is a stretch even by your standards.

Also i have absolutely no wish to quote you. But i must reply if you quote me. You should take your own advice.

Unrelated?? .... Read it again, and again until you understand the relevance
Also, First you lied about the Holy Qur'an, then about what I said, and now again!
Anyway, next time do not try to pass off your PoV as the words of Allah..
May Allah guide us all

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Is this official moonsighting website approved by religious ministry or Mullah biradri? It serve no purpose without validation of relevant people

 

[criticalerror]

Unrelated?? .... Read it again, and again until you understand the relevance
Also, First you lied about the Holy Qur'an, then about what I said, and now again!
Anyway, next time do not try to pass off your PoV as the words of Allah..
May Allah guide us all

I did. And i found no relevance. I did not lie i posted his views on Shariah ruling of moon sighting which you conveniently sidestepped.

Cheap shots don’t win you arguments. Repeating the same again and again about my POV when i have clarified at multiple occasions that my POV is NOT THE WORD OF ALLAH. Please repeat slowly . My POV is not the Word of Allah. Merely an interpretation of the words by some learned people.

 

[criticalerror]

Is this official moonsighting website approved by religious ministry or Mullah biradri? It serve no purpose without validation of relevant people

It is sent to CII for approval. They will discuss it after Eid.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

It is sent to CII for approval. They will discuss it after Eid.

After EID? then should have not declared EID on 5th June

 

[313ghazi]

After EID? then should have not declared EID on 5th June

Foot in mouth syndrome. This govt is developing this as a bad habit.

 

[criticalerror]

After EID? then should have not declared EID on 5th June

As per reports majority of the members of the CII are abroad on Umrah. The Science and Technology ministry implored them to decide it before eid and that was the official answer. Go figure.