Fateh Submarine | News & Discussions

[rmi5]

Guys could you please stay on topic ! our Turkish friends first claim they can defeat Iran no problem, then the whole ME, and now they are going against Russia .... stop it before they attack Mars ! (according to a US research conducted a few years ago, Iranian speedboats, alone, can destroy 16 US navy ships in 10 m !!!! ) ........now lets just move on and talk about "Fateh-class submarines and submarine related technologies !!

Russia's navy is not as strong as its army, or ballistic, and nuclear capabilities, at all. Russia's military forces are land based forces. Turkish Navy is comparable with Russian navy in Black Sea. what turkish members are saying, is not that much surprising as you think.

 

[Kiarash]

Russia's navy is not as strong as its army, or ballistic, and nuclear capabilities, at all. Russia's military forces are land based forces. Turkish Navy is comparable with Russian navy in Black Sea. what turkish members are saying, is not that much surprising as you think.

thanks for elaborating but we need to consider the fact that Russia mobilized a huge naval force to Mediterranean...in general, Russian Navy is much more superior to that of Turkish navy, you cannot simply compare smaller branches of them you need to look at the bigger picture.

 

[rmi5]

thanks for elaborating but we need to consider the fact that Russia mobilized a huge naval force to Mediterranean...in general, Russian Navy is much more superior to that of Turkish navy, you cannot simply compare smaller branches of them you need to look at the bigger picture.

Aziz, most of Russian Navy, about 70-80% if I remember correctly, are already deployed in sevastopol port, and in Black sea. So there is not much left for Russians to move them toward the Black Sea Russian navy is weaker than soviet Navy. You need not to mistake about it. They have currently have only 1 mid-size aircraft carrier. they sold the other one to India. It is still a very strong Navy compared to some countries, but in comparison with Turkey, their navy is not much different. in comparison to UK, it is weaker, and in comparison to US, it is a joke. But, their Army(Nirou ye Zamini) is another strory.
The point is that USSR and then Russia have mostly allocated their budget to Army, and missile and nukes based on their doctrine which it makes sense, since, in contrast to US or Turkey in some extent, Russia is a land based country (کشور بری) and what matters the most for them is their long flat borders with Europe and in south. So, no wonder if their navy is not as strong as what you expect.

 

[The SC]

Iran's navy has good ambitions. They are already developing a loghman (7500 ton) destroyer, I think maybe Iran plans on having one blue water fleet in the future. A nuclear or large submarine would be good. Of course such a fleet is not an necessity for Iran in my view since the biggest challenge Iran faces is in the gulf.

Currently, the besat would be the best choice for Iran since it would have rooms for a decent amount of cruise missile (noor, qader,qadir etc). When it come to the Persian gulf, the smaller you can keep your subs the better.

@gambit In your opinion, what would be some major advantaged of Besat (1200 ton) over Fateh (600). I mean other than the loner endurance. Would you prefer such small sum than the giant US nuclear submarines when it comes to the Persian gulf? Thanks in advance

Since you are left with no answer from 'gambit', I'll tell you what I knew about both submarines from the Iranian experts.
They are both measured against the kilo class submarines as max capabilities and Ghadir submarines as Minimum capabilities, so they are very well balanced and optimized submarines using the best that Iran can come up with in high-tech, based on supercomputer calculations for optimizations.
The Fateh , I've discussed it previously in this thread, the Bessat is much more powerful and will be able to navigate in blue waters and high seas alongside the Iranian kilos as a complementary asset, and on its own, since it is a very capable submarine that can operate in littoral and shallow waters too, The Fateh will operate alongside the Ghadir subs as a complement again, and or alongside the Bessat subs, its main role is in shallow waters, but can operate in the open seas too. They will both carry torpedoes (Hoot among them ) and missiles, they both have some AIP capabilities, since Fateh can stay under water for more than 30 days, they both use fuel-cells to navigate on electric power, so they have electric engines, they both have, a lot of sensors and twelve different kinds of sonars, they use the most advanced noise reduction tilings to reduce noise further, so they are very quite, I might say deadly quite. They use state of the art navigation tech with GPS and other communication means, integrated with other surface, subsurface, land and air assets, high tech optics and optronics to scan the sea surface with powerfull and sophisticated video cameras and gear for every aspect of calculations, almost everything is computerized, so they need less people to navigate and operate them. To sum it up, there will be no gaps left for anyone to exploit in case of war, sub-surface wise, for defense purposes. And a complete sub-surface war machine for offensive operations.

 

[Penguin]

Iran's navy has good ambitions. They are already developing a loghman (7500 ton) destroyer,

7500 ton !? I don't think so by the looks of the small and large models I've seen pics of: it is not 5x the size of the Alvand and domestic variants thereof. More likely about 2500-3500 ton.

The Fateh , I've discussed it previously in this thread, the Bessat is much more powerful and will be able to navigate in blue waters and high seas alongside the Iranian kilos as a complementary asset, and on its own, since it is a very capable submarine that can operate in littoral and shallow waters too, The Fateh will operate alongside the Ghadir subs as a complement again, and or alongside the Bessat subs, its man role is in shallow waters, but can operate in the open seas too. They will both carry torpedoes (Hoot among them ) and missiles, they both have some AIP capabilities, since Fateh can stay under water for more than 30 days, they both use fuel-cells to navigate on electric power, so they have electric engines, they both have, a lot of sensors and twelve different kinds of sonars, they use the most advanced noise reduction tilings to reduce noise further, so they are very quite, I might say deadly quite. They use state of the art navigation tech with GPS and other communication means, integrated with other surface, subsurface, land and air assets, high tech optics and optronics to scan the sea surface with powerfull and sophisticated video cameras and gear for every aspect of calculations, almost everything is computerized, so they need less people to navigate and operate them. To sum it up, there will be no gaps left for anyone to exploit in case of war, sub-surface wise, for defense purposes. And a complete sub-surface war machine for offensive operations.

Where does this information (equipment, capabilities) come from?

 

[MTN1917]

7500 ton !? I don't think so by the looks of the small and large models I've seen pics of: it is not 5x the size of the Alvand and domestic variants thereof. More likely about 2500-3500 ton.

Khalij fars is not 7500 tons, it is a 5500 tons training ship(according to specs written on a poster seen on Leader visit)
Other specs visible:
Length: 145 meters
Tonnage:5500 tons
Crew: 260-270 cadets, 30-40 training cadres and 180~ ship crew.
Range: 8000 miles
Weapons: 76mm gun, Noor missile, Standard missile, point defense system, 20mm gun, torpedo launchers
engines: I could only read 15MW and 1MW generators
Construction date:1394(next persian solar year)-1398, note:but as it appears construction started one year earlier

 

[cabatli_53]

It seems these people are more braindead than I thought.
Russian could vaporise your navy and your country in a matter of half hour.

Turkey cannot even design/produce Submarines. As I said this before, you are nothing without NATO.
.

Sorry but, While talking about size and technological capabilities of Russian Blacksea fleet against current Turkish navy and future programs which is going to join into inventory of both side in following 4-5 years, Mentioning submarine design/production capabilities of Turkey as If It will affect the way of general picture that we talks, is just introduce your childless style and level of ignorancy dude.

 

[Prince of Persia]

Sorry but, While talking about size and technological capabilities of Russian Blacksea fleet against current Turkish navy and future programs which is going to join into inventory of both side in following 4-5 years, Mentioning submarine design/production capabilities of Turkey as If It will affect the way of general picture that we talks, is just introduce your childless style and level of ignorancy dude.

Man go away from our section. Your pathetic propaganda is not welcome here. Go back to your brain-dead section and make bold claims that you can manufacture everything when you can't even make a laser guided artillery.

Khalij fars is not 7500 tons, it is a 5500 tons training ship(according to specs written on a poster seen on Leader visit)
Other specs visible:
Length: 145 meters
Tonnage:5500 tons
Crew: 260-270 cadets, 30-40 training cadres and 180~ ship crew.
Range: 8000 miles
Weapons: 76mm gun, Noor missile, Standard missile, point defense system, 20mm gun, torpedo launchers
engines: I could only read 15MW and 1MW generators
Construction date:1394(next persian solar year)-1398, note:but as it appears construction started one year earlier

The senior naval official of the Iranian navy said it has a mass 5 times that of jamaran. That poster is wrong/outdate, . even assuming Jamaran had a mass of 1200 tons, then this will have a mass of 6000 tons. But it generally believed Jamaran (based on vosper class) has a mass of 1500-1750 tons. If you can access youtube then you should see the video below.

P.s it's not a "training" warship, it is a warship, they are just talking propaganda to not scare the regional countries into going and buying more western toys..

7500 ton !? I don't think so by the looks of the small and large models I've seen pics of: it is not 5x the size of the Alvand and domestic variants thereof. More likely about 2500-3500 ton.


Where does this information (equipment, capabilities) come from?

Check my reply to the member below you.
I posted the video (in Persian) where the official has said it has a mass 5x jamaran and carries 6x more personal. if it has a mass 5x jamaran you think it will be 3500 tons? come on... Don't pay too much attention to the small mockup or that "poster".
The project has started, they have started building it.

 

[Penguin]

5x1500 > 7500 tons = Chinese Type 052C/D, UK Type 45 Daring class

Take the helicopters and or 40mm cannon for size comparison. Sahand class is 1500 tons. The helideck is not more than 1/3 of the ship lenght. The heli is a Bell 214. The heli with the model appears a similarly sized Z-9. I figure the helidecks are of comparable size. When you compare the Moudge with the Loghman model, I find it hard to fit it in the latter more than 2x shiplength of the former. Take a margin of a 0.5. You end up with 1500x 2 or 2,5 = 3000-3750 tons. Even if you take a factor of 3, it is 4500 at best.

 

[Prince of Persia]

@Penguin

Now you're just acting arrogant. Are you seriously basing your assumption on a small mock-up? Do you honestly think that helicopter is a accurate representation? I told you not to take the mock-up seriously but regardless you're dismissing both what the poster says and what the naval official said. I am not sure why people in this forum like to pretend they know more than the people who are designing the products. I'll say it again, the naval official said it will be 5x the mass of jamaran. They could be both referring to different weights, actual mass vs displacement mass.

 

[Penguin]

This is for size reference based on main radar(s)

Other size references are the boxes or AShM and SAM.

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin

Now you're just acting arrogant. Are you seriously basing your assumption on a small mock-up? Do you honestly think that helicopter is a accurate representation? I told you not to take the mock-up seriously but regardless you're dismissing both what the poster says and what the naval official said. I am not sure why people in this forum like to pretend they know more than the people who are designing the products. I'll say it again, the naval official said it will be 5x the mass of jamaran. They could be both referring to different weights, actual mass vs displacement mass.

Beg pardon? You have anything better to go on? I mean, something independently verifiable?

This here is NOT a small scale model. This shows/confirms the configuration and e.g. radar fit and missile fit. Those are the same as on Moudge/Sahand.

Video here: ناو خلیج فارس در راه

Deadweight tonnage is a measure of how much weight a ship is carrying or can safely carry. Deadweight tonnage is not a measure of the ship's displacement . A ship's displacement or displacement tonnage, a term usually applied only to naval vessels, is the weight of the water that a ship displaces when it is floating. That can be including or excluding e.g. fuel, stores, ammunition, or with only some of these, in which case it is light displacement, full load displacement or standard displacement
None should not be confused with gross tonnage (ship's overall internal volume) or net tonnage ( a dimensionless index calculated from the total moulded volume of the ship's cargo spaces by using a mathematical formula) .

Also consider this: Alvand class 1,100 tons (1,540 tons full load) 5x 1100 = 5500 tons
If you wanted to impress (which sometimes is the purpose of news media statements), you could say about a 5500 full load ship that it is 5x heavier than Jamaran. It wouldn't be inaccurate, just misleading.

If indeed a 7500 ton warship, the visible armament is dismal in comparison to know frigates and destroyers of that displacement.

 

[IR5]

Abbas class submarine.
3000 ton.
I have my information from insiders.

Dont ask me..

 

[Penguin]

Extrapolate width (beam) and height based on e.g. door sizes.

Horizon class : Displacement:
7,050 t (6,940 long tons; 7,770 short tons), full displacement

 

[Prince of Persia]

@Penguin
I know the difference between displacement mass and normal mass, I don't need your help.
It seems to me you have difficulty understanding simple facts. I told you what the naval cammander said you want something "independently verifiable". If the commnder words are enough, then your problem is something else. First you claim the ship has a tonnage of 3000-3759 because of the scale of the helicopter compared to the ship and now you're trying to compare another small (but large mockup) to the sahand. Even if it is true that the fully loaded mass if 7500 ton and it has a non loaded mass of 5500, that is still about 1700 more than what you "claimed".

Maybe you should just sit back quietly until it comes out then we can talk further because right now, you're acting like a arrogant child. Stop taking the mockups to scale. I take the word of the commander over your attempts at an "evaluation".
@The SC This guy seems to be just too arrogant and lacking common sensibility to chat to. Shall we take his world over the Iranian naval commander?

Abbas class submarine.
3000 ton.
I have my information from insiders.

Dont ask me..

Are you sure? I heard it was 3000,000 tons?