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"" On way to the check-post, security forces bulldozed 24 houses and torched 50 others on roadsides in Sandokhel, Amrai Koroona, Kamalkhel Koroona and Habibzai areas. It may be mentioned here that earlier security forces had destroyed 48 houses of the suspected militants.""
Burning houses, hamlets. What do you expect the people to do? Feel remorse for their own existence?
 
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Dear All-Green:

TTP is not really an object of love, admiration or positive energy. When you sow poisonous weeds, don’t expect to reap mangoes or apricots.

The rise of TTP in FATA / Swat (and now some settled areas) is mainly attributable to the ill conceived, US dictated, Army operations that resulted in thousands of deaths / casualties. Amidst death and despondency it’s a normal human reaction to cluster around a counter-force.

TTP is not really such a menace as projected at this forum. But I do agree that they are too simplistic in their interpretation of Shariah.

Gen. Tariq of FC is a bit “JAZBATEE”, what he does work pretty well for him. 1400 terrorists killed, 60 killed, 22 arrested … FC control over Khyber …. At this rate all the Taliban have been killed about 5 times over!. Mohmand, Bajaur, Swat are a few hours of driving time away, all parts of Pakistan. Just go there and see the things for yourself.

Dear Anwar2

At least you admit about the poisonous weeds...that's a start to accepting the bitter truth which most of us are so ready to discard away. I do not deny that we have been used and abused but we cannot change the past and that is another limitation which dictates that we move on and sort out the imminent threat which is facing us. As with any normal situation the threat from within is dealt first.

While i cannot deny that US action has given us a lot of trouble in terms of unrest i would like to point out that the start of the menace threatening us is not post 9/11, it has its roots in the Afghan Jihad and Post Afghan Jihad period.

My father was posted in these areas during Afghan Jihad and served as instructor as well. From what i recall he and many fellow officers including pashtuns/punjabis were quite critical of the way the jihad was being organized without looking at the post Jihad situation.
Even then many were realizing this threat we were building in our homeland, the unchecked migration into our land, the parallel army we helped create which had nowhere to go after the war.
Sadly nothing was done about it, Zia waved his brand of Islam at us and people were fooled/seduced by it.

After the war, US had the luxury to abandon the region but Pakistan could not change its boundaries. The acceptance of 3million plus refugees (officially) was a big thing for a struggling economy like ours. Most of them settling in FATA caused this underdeveloped area to be put even under more burden.
The result of this step was very complicated and slowly has disrupted our law and order situation. Afghans were outside the influence of tribal maliks and jirgas and hence started an instability which has only grown due to the influx of more foreigners (via Afghanistan) and the wanted elements of many lashkars from Punjab which were created in the Zia era and are totally on collision course with our state.
During the Jihad, many of our knowledgeable people realized that Pakistan Afghan belt is becoming home to the most hardcore militants (not terrorists) in the Islamic world, most of whom were not at all wanted back by their home countries.
This fear proved to be quite correct but with the advent of Osama and his blessings of suicide attacks on civilians it has taken an unimaginably ugly dimension which was beyond imagination!

These militants were indoctrinated with very hardcore wahabism as part of their training and therefore were made quite intolerant towards other sects of Islam, particularly our shia brethren.
The drug culture/AK-47 culture is the criminal byproduct, however the most evil outcome by far is the religious intolerance which has been bred into these people and is part of their glorious version of sharia.
The massacre of Shias in Afghanistan by the Taliban, the fact that in these tribal areas and in Afghanistan most of the people like Riaz Basra were given protection is an ample proof of the their intolerance.
Mind you these were the genuine Taliban, TTP is an even more chaotic group.
So when you say they are too simplistic in their implementation it is a very big understatement. They are misguided blood loving barbarians to say the least. Mandatory beard and cap etc and beatings for those who do not obey these things are their minor vices but still the humiliation one feels when forced to do these things is beyond me.
I have seen saintly men in my life who did not keep beard or wore a cap.
Our prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the most tolerant man on this earth.
To associate such customs with him are a great crime against Islam.
The daily practices of TTP is the biggest drama in the history of Islam.
They are not fighting for Islam but for power and influence.
I have both friends and family in the SWAT and Tribal areas so i know what TTP is all about; their overt anti US stance may fool some people but the systematic butchery of Jirgas and maliks and anyone who opposes them or does not follow their teachings is something i shall always be disgusted with.

Coming to USA.
I still maintain that US has to accept the fact that it has itself contributed to a very dangerous situation by abandoning the Afghan region after orchestrating the Russian defeat by planning the biggest and most successful proxy war in modern era.
The responsibility lies with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan as well. Keeping in mind our economy we were the least capable of removing the threat of desperation from the war stricken area, even then we could have played a better part.
Saudi Arabia was in a better position to play its role as the economic power house of Muslim world. I can only speculate how the things would have been today if there had been more responsible actions taken by US and Saudi Arabia supported by Pakistan, i do believe it would have been better than today.

Regarding the house demolishing thing, do you know that is the decision of the jirgas and tribal elders as well; to tear down the houses of the militants and those who harbor them. However still i know that situation is nightmarish and pray there is an end to it soon.

What do you think we can do?
Simply run away with our tails between our legs and let the local population know that TTP is their government now, to do with them as it pleases?
Such abandonment would be worse than the current ARMY presence.

I do not care about US or Al Qaida's agenda, but i do know that our house is on fire and we are in for a long fight to make it safe again. Once that is done external threats can be taken care of.
I do realize that the political will is missing and without it the fight is so far inconclusive.
Tribal leaders need full help and support of State and FATA should be developed on critical priority to counter the miscreants stranglehold.
Military action is but one part of the road to securing these areas, socioeconomic development and political/legislative changes being the other key aspects; but it does not imply that ARMY is simply not needed in current situation.
 
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Dear All-Green:

TTP is not really an object of love, admiration or positive energy. When you sow poisonous weeds, don’t expect to reap mangoes or apricots.

The rise of TTP in FATA / Swat (and now some settled areas) is mainly attributable to the ill conceived, US dictated, Army operations that resulted in thousands of deaths / casualties. Amidst death and despondency it’s a normal human reaction to cluster around a counter-force.

TTP is not really such a menace as projected at this forum. But I do agree that they are too simplistic in their interpretation of Shariah.

Gen. Tariq of FC is a bit “JAZBATEE”, what he does work pretty well for him. 1400 terrorists killed, 60 killed, 22 arrested … FC control over Khyber …. At this rate all the Taliban have been killed about 5 times over!. Mohmand, Bajaur, Swat are a few hours of driving time away, all parts of Pakistan. Just go there and see the things for yourself.


Anwar2,

We are actually still under the influence and control of western powers only masters of world changed after WW2.
Gen Zia,King faisal,Bhutto,Shah Iran, tried to make independence policies what happened to them .

There are only two options for us either we accept their orders or ready for shift towards stone age.
 
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"" On way to the check-post, security forces bulldozed 24 houses and torched 50 others on roadsides in Sandokhel, Amrai Koroona, Kamalkhel Koroona and Habibzai areas. It may be mentioned here that earlier security forces had destroyed 48 houses of the suspected militants.""
Burning houses, hamlets. What do you expect the people to do? Feel remorse for their own existence?

Doesn't part of the 'original contract' of the Tribes with the GoP, that you so adamantly demand be adhered to, entail 'collective responsibility' and therefore 'collective punishment'?

The people shoudl be compensated when peace is restored, and accommodated in camps while the takfiris are cleansed out of the area. In the meantime the people should indeed be furious - furious at the Taliban for first destroying their way of life, through murdering Tribal elders and committing violence in an effort to spread their diseased ideology, and secondly for attacking the Pakistani State, its institutions, military and innocent civilians, and therefore requiring this response from the GoP.

Unlike the Israelis however, we don't burn and bulldoze the houses with the inhabitants still in them ..
 
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TTP is not really such a menace as projected at this forum. But I do agree that they are too simplistic in their interpretation of Shariah.

On the contrary, they are every bit as much of a menace as projected, when incidents like these are common place, and you yourself allude to their 'menace' when you say "Just go there and see the things for yourself".

See what after all? The violence, destruction and populace terrified of the TTP of course, since your criticism of Gen. Tariq Khan is meant to imply that the situation is nowhere under control (and it isn't under control , you are correct about that). You dissemble and then contradict and expose yourself in the same post.

Scuffle over dress code

Friday, January 23, 2009
Militant, ex-Jihadi among three killed in Mingora

By our correspondent

MINGORA: Militants gunned down Amjad Islam, teacher of a private school who himself waged a Jihad against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan, for not hiking up his shalwar (trouser) above his ankles.

However, the issue did not end here but the militants went to the slain teacher’s house and gunned down his father, Ghani Akbar, a lawyer by profession. The militants later hung Amjad’s body from a pole in the Matta College Square.

Locals said that the militants on Thursday morning asked the teacher of the Hira School at the College Square to hitch up his shalwar above his ankles. However, Amjad told them he was a former Mujahid himself and knew everything about Islam but nobody could be forced to pull up shalwar above the ankles.

Continuing arguments, the teacher said that he had also saw the Taliban rule in Afghanistan who did not force into doing so, then how could they do? The arguments angered the militants and a scuffle took place. Amjad, who had a pistol, fired at the militants, killing Khalid on the spot and wounding two others.

The schoolteacher was trying to flee but the militants fired at him and attacked him with daggers. He was killed on the spot. His body was hung from a pole and warned the locals not to touch his body till Friday morning.

After killing the teacher, the militants scurried towards his house and dragged out his father, Sahibzada Ghani, and sprayed him with bullets. Locals said that Ghani was a religious and humble person and was respected in the area. The body of the schoolteacher, however, was taken to his house after the intervention of a local Jirga.

Scuffle over dress code

Going on 200 schools destroyed in Swat now - over 250 tribal elders massacred...
 
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Anwar2,

We are actually still under the influence and control of western powers only masters of world changed after WW2.
Gen Zia,King faisal,Bhutto,Shah Iran, tried to make independence policies what happened to them .

There are only two options for us either we accept their orders or ready for shift towards stone age.


Dear waraich66,

King Faisal was a strong leader and Bhutto too (even though he was very arrogant and became selfish). West was not happy with them but still who overthrew and killed them?
Muslims and close associates at that!

It is a gross inaccuracy to think that Gen Zia was an independent policy maker, the guy ruined our country for generations through his sheer greed for power and used the name of Islam to legitimize his unconstitutional actions. He really destroyed the identity of Pakistan as it was envisioned by Quaid-e-Azam and created an intolerant Pakistan.
He was independent as far as maintaining his stranglehold over the country was concerned through all the means!
When it came to foreign policy he was still following west and it is the subsequent result of his policies which led us into a major disaster as far as insecurity is concerned.
Bhutto was threatened by west but who killed him?
It was Zia who did it, however it is surprising that many people hail him as a great leader and one who was working tirelessly for Muslim cause.

It is the unaccountability and legitimization of past mistakes which has led us to this point in time now. We cannot turn back the clock but if we want to be a sovereign nation we have to ensure that the state is stable and any attempted breach of the Law by anyone is dealt with promptly (be it generals, politicians, ordinary citizens).
I think that if we hold public judicial inquiries into past national disasters (71, martial law etc) we can at least gain detailed insight into what not to do in future. Details should be made public (wherever possible) and those found responsible should be punished. Even if they have died, their honors, titles etc. should be taken away so as to ensure that there is some fear of accountability in the hearts of the nation.

As far as obeying the west is concerned, we just need to be a diplomatically strong country and work on areas of mutual interest with west and where our interest clashes we need to be tactful and protect our interests. To reach this position we need some careful planning.
Stone age threat is not something to be taken quite literally, however if we do not have strong diplomatic presence in the world then isolation of our country shall eventually lead us down the road to deprivation and despair.
Instead of raising unrealistic slogans of taking on the West we should focus on strengthening our economy and gain influence in the next three decades, then we should flex our muscles in the global arena and exert our political will across the region.
Empty threats and tall claims will get us nowhere, we need to be a strong, sovereign and developed country to safeguard the interests of our people, this region and Muslim world.
It is all possible, with the will to change ourselves.
 
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On the contrary, they are every bit as much of a menace as projected, when incidents like these are common place, and you yourself allude to their 'menace' when you say "Just go there and see the things for yourself".

See what after all? The violence, destruction and populace terrified of the TTP of course. You dissemble and then contradict and expose yourself in the same post.



Going on 200 schools destroyed in Swat now - over 250 tribal elders massacred...

How sad and horrible what these miscreants are doing.
Another example though very mild in comparison but still illustrates the humiliation they make ordinary people go through.
If you are in your car and are unlucky enough to be confronted by them, they will check for stereo in your car and if found anyone from a 12 year old to a senior member would slap you 2-3 times and take out the stereo and break it.
This was happening in Bara area sometime ago and was told to me by a local friend whom i know to be quite truthful.
 
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Dear waraich66,

King Faisal was a strong leader and Bhutto too (even though he was very arrogant and became selfish). West was not happy with them but still who overthrew and killed them?
Muslims and close associates at that!
King faisal was targetted because of his threat for oil blockade and Bhutto due to his formation of anti american block.

It is a gross inaccuracy to think that Gen Zia was an independent policy maker, the guy ruined our country for generations through his sheer greed for power and used the name of Islam to legitimize his unconstitutional actions. He really destroyed the identity of Pakistan as it was envisioned by Quaid-e-Azam and created an intolerant Pakistan.
He was independent as far as maintaining his stranglehold over the country was concerned through all the means!
When it came to foreign policy he was still following west and it is the subsequent result of his policies which led us into a major disaster as far as insecurity is concerned.

Gen Zia remain hero for patriatic pakistani and muslim umah for ever for what he did make pakistan stronger against indian treath by development of nukes and his courage to defeat Russia and he also gather whole muslim ummah in one plateform against israel by accepting financial help from arabs for making of islamic bomb.


Bhutto was threatened by west but who killed him?
It was Zia who did it, however it is surprising that many people hail him as a great leader and one who was working tirelessly for Muslim cause.

Uptill last moment he has soft corner for bhutto but his core cammanders given vote against him due his arugent behavior .

It is the unaccountability and legitimization of past mistakes which has led us to this point in time now. We cannot turn back the clock but if we want to be a sovereign nation we have to ensure that the state is stable and any attempted breach of the Law by anyone is dealt with promptly (be it generals, politicians, ordinary citizens).
I think that if we hold public judicial inquiries into past national disasters (71, martial law etc) we can at least gain detailed insight into what not to do in future. Details should be made public (wherever possible) and those found responsible should be punished. Even if they have died, their honors, titles etc. should be taken away so as to ensure that there is some fear of accountability in the hearts of the nation.

Recently Musharaf took wrong steps and creat unstability in pakistan ,he has taken lot of unconstitution steps against charter of pakistan to please the bush regime



As far as obeying the west is concerned, we just need to be a diplomatically strong country and work on areas of mutual interest with west and where our interest clashes we need to be tactful and protect our interests. To reach this position we need some careful planning.

We should take strong and tough decision against any western power if their plan are effecting our national intrests.

Stone age threat is not something to be taken quite literally, however if we do not have strong diplomatic presence in the world then isolation of our country shall eventually lead us down the road to deprivation and despair.
Instead of raising unrealistic slogans of taking on the West we should focus on strengthening our economy and gain influence in the next three decades, then we should flex our muscles in the global arena and exert our political will across the region.
Empty threats and tall claims will get us nowhere, we need to be a strong, sovereign and developed country to safeguard the interests of our people, this region and Muslim world.
It is all possible, with the will to change ourselves.

Pakistan is very stronge country economically ,we could feed our peoples and survive without any foriegn help and grant and have very important strategic location ,our leaders should dictate their terms and conditions.
US and allies know it very well that oil resources of central asia could not be taped with out the help of pakistan .

Pakistan can creat lot of problem for west if Iran and Pakistan and china make a stronge block .

Now iron is hot US economy is taking its last breadths what ever disputes of muslim ummah(palestine,kashmir) are pending can be resolved if our leadership use our strengths wisely.
 
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King Faisal was targetted because of his threat for oil blockade and Bhutto due to his formation of anti American block.

I know very well that they were no more liked by west but who was it who killed them? Then you think it not fair when i say that we ourselves are responsible for landing in trouble. I know how Henry Kissinger hated Bhutto and his guts, however it was our Army Chief who revolted and killed him

Gen Zia remain hero for patriatic pakistani and muslim umah for ever for what he did make pakistan stronger against indian treath by development of nukes and his courage to defeat Russia and he also gather whole muslim ummah in one plateform against israel by accepting financial help from arabs for making of islamic bomb.


Fact remains that Zia was a cold blooded murderer who killed Bhutto for political reason---The same Bhutto you see as anti American.
If you are correct that west was behind Bhutto's killing then his killer Zia would be the killing hand of the west ---yet you deem him great enough to be called a hero?
That is a big big contradiction.
Get your facts straight on the nuclear program---it was Bhutto who got the nuclear program underway, not ZIA!
It was a bold step and credit gos to Bhutto for initiative, the rest all followed.


Uptill last moment he has soft corner for bhutto but his core cammanders given vote against him due his arugent behavior .

That is a grave misconception which needs to be corrected---Zia was all in all---Army Chief---This is Army you are talking about---there is no concept of seeking vote. It was not a case of Corps Commanders pleading him to kill Bhutto.
Despite the plea of many Muslim leaders and people, he killed Bhutto for his political furtherance and nothing else.


Recently Musharaf took wrong steps and creat unstability in pakistan ,he has taken lot of unconstitution steps against charter of pakistan to please the bush regime


If we praise people who throw the constitution down the drain and do not punish the culprits who in the past have raped this nation---then this is what we get and i would like to add that Musharraf was far more merciful to his opponents than Zia




We should take strong and tough decision against any western power if their plan are effecting our national intrests.

Tough decisions are indeed to be made but alas our diplomatic influence and political power is quite minimal in the world---this is prerequisite for dealing with high handedness of stronger countries.
My advice is to keep it simple like China---make yourself strong and avoid conflict till you are prepared to back your words with actions


Pakistan is very stronge country economically ,we could feed our peoples and survive without any foriegn help and grant and have very important strategic location ,our leaders should dictate their terms and conditions.
US and allies know it very well that oil resources of central asia could not be taped with out the help of Pakistan.


We can potentially be an economic powerhouse with sustained economic policies, however to state that we are a strong economy is quite an inaccurate claim. Also the countries which do not expand their influence and fail to make others dependent on their trade and commerce cannot really dictate terms even if the location is strategic.
Who would use Gwadar etc if our country is not secure?
Central Asian Oil and Gas is already being used---however there is a major potential to shift it to India via Pakistan and supply both countries with their needs. For this to materialize we need better ties with both India and Afghanistan. This shall take some time even if all the stakeholders are serious to do business.


Pakistan can creat lot of problem for west if Iran and Pakistan and china make a stronge block .

Thanks to our pro Taliban attitude in the past, Iran has been alienated.
However with better foreign policy we can bridge the distance.
Indeed the gas pipe line project is a good opportunity. Clock is ticking, however.
China is already supporting us but day in and day out Chinese engineers are kidnapped by miscreants operating in Pakistan...something which is not healthy.
China is a fast friend but we need to create a more conducive business environment for our friend to really help us economically as well.
It is all about economy now.


Now iron is hot US economy is taking its last breadths what ever disputes of muslim ummah(palestine,kashmir) are pending can be resolved if our leadership use our strengths wisely.

With the kind of economic models (heavy borrowing from west) we have been pursuing, US collapse would not be that much in our interest---however for us to be independent of western aid we need to build upon our strengths and key here is development of agriculture sector. We went for aggressive industrialization whereas we should have focused a lot more on agriculture.
Our yields per square meter are half that of India, something we need to realize and work upon most earnestly.

We can do everything but first we need to detach ourselves from empty slogans, baseless myths, conspiracy theories and focus on the practicalities.
1-2 decades of sincere efforts will definitely bear fruit but that would imply that we adopt a realistic approach.
We have the true potential to be a great people if we work diligently and sincerely.
I am certain of that.
 
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=All-Green;280529]I know very well that they were no more liked by west but who was it who killed them? Then you think it not fair when i say that we ourselves are responsible for landing in trouble. I know how Henry Kissinger hated Bhutto and his guts, however it was our Army Chief who revolted and killed him

Agreed that Bhutto was rejected by west but he was trailed and hanged fairly for murder of Nawab Kassuri .

Fact remains that Zia was a cold blooded murderer who killed Bhutto for political reason---The same Bhutto you see as anti American.
If you are correct that west was behind Bhutto's killing then his killer Zia would be the killing hand of the west ---yet you deem him great enough to be called a hero?
That is a big big contradiction.


Gen Zia can not be blamed for killing of Bhutto as stated above but he rejected final appeal from Bhutto for pardon which he rejected with concent of all core cammanders

Get your facts straight on the nuclear program---it was Bhutto who got the nuclear program underway, not ZIA!
It was a bold step and credit gos to Bhutto for initiative, the rest all followed.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed but Zia implemented the idea of Bhutto so credit goes to both.
That is a grave misconception which needs to be corrected---Zia was all in all---Army Chief---This is Army you are talking about---there is no concept of seeking vote. It was not a case of Corps Commanders pleading him to kill Bhutto.
Despite the plea of many Muslim leaders and people, he killed Bhutto for his political furtherance and nothing else.

Already answered above.


If we praise people who throw the constitution down the drain and do not punish the culprits who in the past have raped this nation---then this is what we get and i would like to add that Musharraf was far more merciful to his opponents than Zia

Musharaf down graded pakistan by accepting threat of Bush on WOT.I graded him most coward general in history of Pakistan.I am sure he made agreement with US for surgical strikes inside pakistan


Tough decisions are indeed to be made but alas our diplomatic influence and political power is quite minimal in the world---this is prerequisite for dealing with high handedness of stronger countries.
My advice is to keep it simple like China---make yourself strong and avoid conflict till you are prepared to back your words with actions

Pakistan is world seventh atomic power not a third world power less country.But what we did with our heros AQ KHAN ,we should be ashamed on that .

We can potentially be an economic powerhouse with sustained economic policies, however to state that we are a strong economy is quite an inaccurate claim. Also the countries which do not expand their influence and fail to make others dependent on their trade and commerce cannot really dictate terms even if the location is strategic.
Who would use Gwadar etc if our country is not secure?
Central Asian Oil and Gas is already being used---however there is a major potential to shift it to India via Pakistan and supply both countries with their needs. For this to materialize we need better ties with both India and Afghanistan. This shall take some time even if all the stakeholders are serious to do business.

Pakistan is strongest country of central asia and muslim world and remain ,what we need is visionary leadership to make it world super power.Pakistan is on top of target of Israel,india and Zoinist regime ,which are our real enemies.

Thanks to our pro Taliban attitude in the past, Iran has been alienated.
However with better foreign policy we can bridge the distance.
Indeed the gas pipe line project is a good opportunity. Clock is ticking, however.
China is already supporting us but day in and day out Chinese engineers are kidnapped by miscreants operating in Pakistan...something which is not healthy.
China is a fast friend but we need to create a more conducive business environment for our friend to really help us economically as well.
It is all about economy now.

China is big power silently observing US but actually dont want US presence in Central asia , playing important role in defeat of US in Afghanistan .

Here ,I appreciate Musharaf for help to iran for development of missile technology .Now Iran is very much stronger country that is why Israel not attacked on its nukes assets.Credit goes to Musharaf.
With the kind of economic models (heavy borrowing from west) we have been pursuing, US collapse would not be that much in our interest---however for us to be independent of western aid we need to build upon our strengths and key here is development of agriculture sector. We went for aggressive industrialization whereas we should have focused a lot more on agriculture.
Our yields per square meter are half that of India, something we need to realize and work upon most earnestly.

We can do everything but first we need to detach ourselves from empty slogans, baseless myths, conspiracy theories and focus on the practicalities.
1-2 decades of sincere efforts will definitely bear fruit but that would imply that we adopt a realistic approach.
We have the true potential to be a great people if we work diligently and sincerely.
I am certain of that.
Remember pakistan has world best irrigation system and planty of water resourses future war will be faught for waters in world.
We should look toward china and russia and EU for future development.US economy is now disintegrating could not be able to act as super power in next decade.
 
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All-Green:

First of all hats off to your honorable father, who participated in Afghan Jihad indirectly (when it was the real Jihad).

I call TTP poisonous weeds with a certain degree of pain. They are per se a reactionary force, but they do have the wherewithal to stand against extreme brutality with pitiably few resources. That’s why they command respect in FATA and Swat.
I do agree with your assertion that the massive influx of Afghan refugees and the incessant support of Mujahideen Lashkars had numerous negative effects on Pakistani society. BUT please appreciate that it happened in the context of some of the most tumultuous events in History. With one of history’s most brutal military operation waged next door, with a million people killed, it is logical to expect some fallout.
Whatever the motivation of Zia to support Afghan Jihad, it sure was one of the most dangerous gambles. When Soviet forces entered Afghanistan on Dec 27, 1979 it took them only 6 days to establish a nearly total control over Afghanistan. Till mid 1982 the Western allies and US were just too scared, to even lift a finger for the fear of antagonizing the Soviets. The mujahideen groups however continued their struggle with support of Pak Army and certain Arab nations.

In mid 1982 Vitaly Smirnoff, the then Soviet Ambassador met Zia and offered a mix of threats and incentives to pull the plug on Afghans. Soviet demands included a “bonded causeway” to be built by the Soviets from Torkham-Wagah and Chaman-Balochistan coast; and inclusion of Pakistan in Indo-Soviet Friendship treaty. Zia withstood the pressures.

By end 1982 the Reagan government decided to wholeheartedly bet on the winning horses (Mujahideen). That’s when the CIA funding pipelines opened up. The modest level of funding, and the induction of Stingers in 1985 accelerated the process of Soviet decline.

The essentially US abandoned Afghanistan and left it to its won devices in 1990. Later they funded the rise of Taliban in 1994 to teach a lesson to ungrateful Mujahideen groups, and to give Iran a run for its money on the Northern border. This misadventure was called off in 2000, because Taliban failed to “deliver”.

TTP are simplistic in makeup and ideology. They are really not the bloodthirsty monsters as the media led us to believe. They are a reactionary force, and their rise is solely attributable to the US directed Pak Army operations in the Tribal areas.

Lets face it …. The old school Tribal Maliks, Spin Giris and Masharan had made themselves patently irrelevant to the transformation of the tribal society; they had simply lost their moral authority. They were seen as small time “Majab Khware” in servitude of corrupted Political agents. They did not lift a finger when FATA people faced massive casualties as a result of US directed Army operations.

By mid 2007 we finally entered the vicious “graveyard spiral”. Lal Masjid operation was a landmark event that transformed our landscape for good.

It is important to understand that TTP cannot survive in FATA / Swat without the support and moral authority of majority of the population. No matter what people say while staring up the barrel of a T-55 tank, their silent sympathies are with the “bad guys”.

The people are smart enough to know that the only reason for the Army to be there is to relieve the pressure on US/NATO forces in the area; and the booty hunter mafia to rake in some appreciation from the bosses and to rake in profits.

It is very easy to resolve the crisis. Restore Pakistan's sovereignty, stop using PA as a mule for the US forces.
 
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All-Green:

First of all hats off to your honorable father, who participated in Afghan Jihad indirectly (when it was the real Jihad).

I call TTP poisonous weeds with a certain degree of pain. They are per se a reactionary force, but they do have the wherewithal to stand against extreme brutality with pitiably few resources. That’s why they command respect in FATA and Swat.
I do agree with your assertion that the massive influx of Afghan refugees and the incessant support of Mujahideen Lashkars had numerous negative effects on Pakistani society. BUT please appreciate that it happened in the context of some of the most tumultuous events in History. With one of history’s most brutal military operation waged next door, with a million people killed, it is logical to expect some fallout.
Whatever the motivation of Zia to support Afghan Jihad, it sure was one of the most dangerous gambles. When Soviet forces entered Afghanistan on Dec 27, 1979 it took them only 6 days to establish a nearly total control over Afghanistan. Till mid 1982 the Western allies and US were just too scared, to even lift a finger for the fear of antagonizing the Soviets. The mujahideen groups however continued their struggle with support of Pak Army and certain Arab nations.

In mid 1982 Vitaly Smirnoff, the then Soviet Ambassador met Zia and offered a mix of threats and incentives to pull the plug on Afghans. Soviet demands included a “bonded causeway” to be built by the Soviets from Torkham-Wagah and Chaman-Balochistan coast; and inclusion of Pakistan in Indo-Soviet Friendship treaty. Zia withstood the pressures.

By end 1982 the Reagan government decided to wholeheartedly bet on the winning horses (Mujahideen). That’s when the CIA funding pipelines opened up. The modest level of funding, and the induction of Stingers in 1985 accelerated the process of Soviet decline.

The essentially US abandoned Afghanistan and left it to its won devices in 1990. Later they funded the rise of Taliban in 1994 to teach a lesson to ungrateful Mujahideen groups, and to give Iran a run for its money on the Northern border. This misadventure was called off in 2000, because Taliban failed to “deliver”.

TTP are simplistic in makeup and ideology. They are really not the bloodthirsty monsters as the media led us to believe. They are a reactionary force, and their rise is solely attributable to the US directed Pak Army operations in the Tribal areas.

Lets face it …. The old school Tribal Maliks, Spin Giris and Masharan had made themselves patently irrelevant to the transformation of the tribal society; they had simply lost their moral authority. They were seen as small time “Majab Khware” in servitude of corrupted Political agents. They did not lift a finger when FATA people faced massive casualties as a result of US directed Army operations.

By mid 2007 we finally entered the vicious “graveyard spiral”. Lal Masjid operation was a landmark event that transformed our landscape for good.

It is important to understand that TTP cannot survive in FATA / Swat without the support and moral authority of majority of the population. No matter what people say while staring up the barrel of a T-55 tank, their silent sympathies are with the “bad guys”.

The people are smart enough to know that the only reason for the Army to be there is to relieve the pressure on US/NATO forces in the area; and the booty hunter mafia to rake in some appreciation from the bosses and to rake in profits.

It is very easy to resolve the crisis. Restore Pakistan's sovereignty, stop using PA as a mule for the US forces.


I am doubt full that these small anti american groups named TTP involved in activities like distruction of girl schools ,local population is in favour of them , possibility of state terrorism shall also be evaluated before reaching to any conclusion .
Western media is now in full support of US ,there is no channel like aljezera active in Afghanistan and Pakistan to show real picture to international community and human right groups.
 
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US releases $101m for anti-terror fight

Our Correspondent
Sunday, 25 Jan, 2009 | 09:18 AM PST |


WASHINGTON: The United States has reimbursed $101 million to Pakistan for its efforts to fight Al Qaeda and Taliban militants along the Pakistan-Afghan border.

Diplomatic sources told Dawn that the payment came from the US Coalition Support Fund set up to help US allies in the war against terror.

With the transfer of the amount on Friday, the US has now made reimbursement for expenditures that Pakistan incurred up to April 2008.

The United States still owes about a $1 billion to Pakistan for the expenses incurred during the last eight months.

The payments are made under a new procedure approved recently.
Under the procedure, the government of Pakistan submits its claim to the Office of the US Defence Representative in Pakistan, who forwards it to the US Central Command in Tampa, Florida.

From Centcom, the claims are sent to the Pentagon which evaluates the claims and then notifies the US Congress within a 15-day mandatory period.
The claims are scrutinised but not debated and is sent back to the Pentagon after approval, which releases the funds to Pakistan.

DAWN.COM | World | US releases $101m for anti-terror fight
 
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Voww!! Great Reimbursement! By the way how much did we spend during the Invoice period. How much deduction was made out of Invoice? What were the Line items in the Invoice? When is the next Invoice due?
This is probably the cheapest war ever waged in the last 50 years.
 
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