FARN10: Eurofighter boasts Typhoon reign over F-35

[!!craft!!]

By Stephen Trimble on July 22, 2010 11:08 AM.

FARN10: Eurofighter boasts Typhoon reign over F-35 - The DEW Line.

Eurofighter has launched a new campaign to assert the supremacy of the Typhoon against the Lockheed Martin F-35 in air-to-air combat, describing internal simulations giving the former an advantage over a numerically superior F-35 attack force.
The campaign is aimed at challenging Lockheed's claims that the F-35 enjoys a 6:1 exchange ratio over modern fighters. Eurofighter also hopes to dispel creeping global acceptance of Lockeed's description of the F-35 as a fifth generation fighter that is implicitly superior to so-called fourth generation fighters, such as the Typhoon.
The challenge appears as several countries face decisions over buying both aircraft. On 20 July, Italy announced a decision to cancel a planned Tranche 3B contract for 25 Typhoons.
In Eurofighter's view, buying F-35s at the expense of fewer Typhoons reduces the air force's overall capability. Eurofighter respects the F-35 as a world-class fighter for the air-to-ground mission, but not as a fighter in the traditional role as an air-to-air machine, says Craig Penrice, a Typhoon pilot and marketing adviser.
Lockheed and programme officials have claimed that the days of traditional dogfighting are over. A promotional video released last year by F-35 supplier Northrop Grumman claims, for example, that "manoeuvrability is irrelevant" to a modern fighter. The video shows the F-35 can defeat opponents not with dogfighting skill, but by firing missiles agile enough to turn 180º.
Eurofighter, however, claims the F-35 lacks all-aspect, very low observable stealth, and is vulnerable to detection and defeat by non-stealthy opponents.
In an internal simulation series, Eurofighter found that four Typhoons supported by an airborne warning and control system (AWACS) defeated 85% of attacks by eight F-35s carrying an internal load of two joint direct attack munitions (JDAMs) and two air-to-air missiles, Penrice says.
According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.

 

[!!craft!!]

i guess this may give EF an edge in the mrca bid.

 

[Nishan_101]

You are quite right and it can be detected and engaged as the advances in radar technology are coming day by day.

 

[roach]

Now all we need is for another aircraft manufacturer to come up with similar research results.

 

[CONNAN]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm looks like F 35 myth busted by EADS

 

[SpArK]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm looks like F 35 myth busted by EADS

Wasnt it earlier??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/61427-eurofighter-snipes-lockheed-says-typhoon-more-5th-gen-than-f-35-latter-not-even-f.html

 

[CONNAN]

Wasnt it earlier??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/61427-eurofighter-snipes-lockheed-says-typhoon-more-5th-gen-than-f-35-latter-not-even-f.html

http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/efworld/ef_world_2-2010b_Low.pdf

cheers buddy

 

[!!craft!!]

Wasnt it earlier??

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/61427-eurofighter-snipes-lockheed-says-typhoon-more-5th-gen-than-f-35-latter-not-even-f.html

well this is a new one..guess ef busted f35 twice..

 

[SpArK]

Any way its not good jumping into conclusions on the basis that EF is part of MRCA.. People will change sides if F-35 is chosen for Navy. LOL

 

[soaringphnx]

The Eurofighter is superior to the F-35, but only in air-to-air combat. The F-35 is much more capable in the strike role than the EFT. But this doesn't mean that the F-35 is superior, does it? If the EFT is so superior, then why is U.K. and other countries in the EADS consortum involved in the JSF joint venture?

The EFT is designed as an air superiority fighter and only has secondary ground attack capability. In fact, the much smaller and cheaper JAS-39 Gripen is a better strike platform than the EFT.

The F-35 (JSF stands for Joint Strike Fighter and not Joint Superiority Fighter) on the other hand was intended as a multi-role fighter to complement the F-22 just as the F-16 complements the F-15. This is how the USAF maintains a high-low mix in their inventory - small numbers of expensive air-superiority fighters (in this case, the F-22) complemented by a much larger number of relatively cheaper multi-role fighters (the F-35). It is only because the Obama administration stopped F-22 production (as it is too expensive) that more and more roles originally intended for the F-22 are now heaped on the F-35. Yet, the F-35 is not an air-superiority fighter.

Both the aircraft perform well in their designated roles and cannot be compared because of one simple fact - they are not designed for the same role!

 

[Break the Silence]

But, IMO, Typhoon is not better than f-35 in terms of Looks!!!

 

[Break the Silence]

Any way its not good jumping into conclusions on the basis that EF is part of MRCA.. People will change sides if F-35 is chosen for Navy. LOL

 

[soaringphnx]

Now all we need is for another aircraft manufacturer to come up with similar research results.

The Joint Strike Fighter Dilemma​

As Australia is considering buying a hundred Lockheed-Martin/Boeing F-35A fighter-bombers for USD 83 million a piece, reports have emerged that the much-advertised stealth aircraft was comprehensively defeated by Sukhoi Su-35 in August 2008 during classified computer-simulated war games in Hawaii conducted by the USAF with participation from other NATO members. While Pentagon and Lockheed-Martin officials hotly dispute the reports, at least four RAAF personnel and a member of Australia’s Defence Intelligence Organisation were said to have witnessed the simulation. The West Australian newspaper reported earlier this month that F-35s have been “clubbed like baby seals” by the simulated Su-35s.

Originally, Australia opted for the most “basic” version of the JSF – the F-35A, which lacks short or vertical takeoff/landing capability. Over the past few years the cost of this aircraft ballooned some 54% to $83 million for each aircraft bringing the total cost of the program, should Australia choose to go forward with it, to USD 16 billion. To put this amount in perspective, the latest Sukhoi Su-35 costs about $65 million and the Su-30M retails for less than $45 million. An article in Jane’s Defence Weekly by noted combat aircraft expert Pierre Sprey and defense spending analyst Winslow Wheeler was highly critical of the JSF:

“It is too fast to see the tactical targets it is shooting at, too delicate and flammable to withstand ground fire and it lacks the payload and especially the endurance to loiter usefully over US forces for sustained periods as they manoeuvre on the ground.”

On the other hand, pitting the F-35 against the Su-35 is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. The American aircraft was designed primarily as a light strike aircraft with air-to-air capability, while the Russian Su-35 is a heavy air-superiority fighter with ground attack capability. The Su-35 is faster, has longer range, higher payload, and it can carry a greater variety of weapons than the F-35. And for every F-35 you can buy two Su-30Ms or one Su-35 with about USD 20 million to spare. While Australia’s South-East Asian neighbors are buying Sukhois, Canberra has its eyes set on overpriced Lockheed products. For some time now Australia has been trying to get the US to lift export ban on the F-22, which would be a much better match for the Russian-made jets but comes at a mind-boggling cost of USD 138 million.

Australia is too deeply entangled with the US military-industrial complex to make the right choice here. If Washington lets them, the Australians will buy the F-22 – the most expensive production fighter aircraft ever built – and, if not, then RAAF will be flying the “baby seals”. It is interesting that Australia even joined the JSF project in the first place, considering that it had no need for STOVL capability but has a requirement for maximum range in excess of 1,500 nautical miles, which F-35 cannot deliver. However, politics takes precedence over common sense wherever Australia’s defense strategy is concerned. And so Australia is betting on Lockheed’s “stealth”, which, apparently, is not a big problem for Sukhoi’s powerful new radars.

 

[jha]

With each passing day people are getting more critical to JSF..However when it comes out and Air forces start inducting them then all the talks will stop at once..

 

[Nishan_101]

I think that the MiG-35, Su-30 MKK3 and Su-35 BM and the future Su-37s are more capable with cheaper price and with the promise of cheaper operating in future and the reliability on russian that they won't force an embargo on any buyers and also the technology that they are offering isn't cheap in the western market. So these are some of the reason that aren't been discussed at the moment and Australia has concern about the Su-30MKK3 capability they had i think forgotten the fact that PAK-FA will be coming soon or later near to the Australian region and they have think over its capabilities and the stealth technology, avionics, sensor suite and weapons suite. Because it will carry such weapons and especially missiles which they have mention that can fly backwards.