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Falling off our map: By neglecting the economic paradigm Pakistan has become irrelevant to India

Pakistan has a lot to offer India - Access to CAR and then onto Europe making SAARC an economic behemoth. however, India is quite tired of waiting and is willing to pay the extra price because Pakistan chooses not to offer India what it can.

If SAARC were truly united and at peace with each other, we would be controlling 70% of the worlds sea trade between the ports starting from Gulf of Aden to Malacca making it the default strategic powerhouse of the world.


Now; fortunately there is a viable alternative to that as well, though it falls outside the borders of SAARC.
Iran has a more viable route through Iran. One which is more secure and attractive to the world at large. It has happened fortuitously, but is a god-send in terms of its potential.

Thus time to move on...... to more greener and worth-while pastures.
 
I can see some fanboy stuff here however can we all deny that today's status quo is in India's favor?? In short strategically there is little for India to gain as compared to Pakistan as far Kashmir issue resolution is concerned. In short Pakistan wants it more than India to resolve this issue at earliest..

I have said this in various threads in past that Pakistan best chance was during Vajpayee and MMS era...both these gentleman had put in lot of efforts in resolving ties(Lahore Bus Trip and Sharm el sheikh)...however some rash moves(read Kargil, Parliament Attack, 26/11) and then being a bit unlucky(read Mush loosing power when we were close in resolving issues) didn't help the matter...Pakistan has done itself a big disfavor by not giving these genetleman a decent chance for peace..

With both these gentlemen out for good i don't see anyone in our current political leadership which have roots from Pakistan/have sympathy towards them...even people like Rahul Gandhi(who as per me are morons) are on records saying that we give more importance to Pakistan than we should...In short it is going to be harder and harder for Pakistan to resolve kashmir as per their wishes...not that it was easy a decade ago however now it will be even more difficult...
 
Well, the idea that the world is actually progressing is debatable..since the more I read into it we are literally repeating various "events" and "cycles" with only changes in structures of society and technology. I will be posting an article on it but a read into Al-Berunis Kitab al Hind for e.g. will find many traits of the people of hind which he observed some 1000 years ago still very valid today.


Those who subscribe to the stranglehold of "traditions" are doomed to that fate. Here is where we need to be disruptive in our mind-sets without succumbing to anarchic thinking.
 
Honestly your a** kising of hindus on this site is getting old. There is nothing that India can offer, at least something which we can't get from elswhere. And depending on them for anything will be mistake anyway.



Good joke, I guess china should cancel $46 billion investment till 2018 because there is nothing to offer. Lol
I would say ,Pakistan is a true friend .
Pakistan will sacrifice anything for their friends and if they supportsyour Kashmir policy you will do any thing for them.
First it was US .They gave 30 billion $ as aid and you sacrificed 100billion$ for them.Now it is China's chance .
AFAIK Chinese companies have total monoploy in your power sector.


But trust me .This is a world of exploitation.You cant trust any one.Every one cares about themselves .There is no true friends in this globalized world.
 
Those who subscribe to the stranglehold of "traditions" are doomed to that fate. Here is where we need to be disruptive in our mind-sets without succumbing to anarchic thinking.

That depends on the educated.. a clear distinction being made on educated and illiterate.
 
One this generation goes

@Oscar

Sir which generation are you referring to? Age band wise?

Remember one thing that the goals the indians want to achieve can never be possibly achieved without our blessings since r the ones who control their western borders and a possible gateway to CARs and possibly towards Russia where the resources lie and the stability lies in order to utilize them.

The only little draw back is the stability and security of our own country which is must and necessary in order to achieve all the above mentioned.

If you give it some thought you would realize that the two are closely interlinked.
 
That depends on the educated.. a clear distinction being made on educated and illiterate.

@Oscar; there is now a significant "push-back" in my country at least, to obscurantist thinking. The growing 'economic conditions-aspirations cycle' is a humongous contributor to it. People are confronting the fact that even "standing still" is not an option. Working as I am now; with some grass-roots educational programs; I am amazed to see how parents articulate what they want for their children, though they are ill-equipped in every way to do so. If they see anybody; I mean anybody who offers some gleam of hope in that direction, they will allow them to lead the process. Unfortunately, not everyone in this field is equal to the task; but the open-mindedness is refreshing. The present generation does not want to be fed with Mythological stories and fairy-tales of flying creatures and miracles and such stuff. They have got exposed to the real world including Reality TV. :D

But jokes aside; the juggernaut has been set rolling. Incongrously enough; we have to thank our Socialistic Secularistic Congressi leaders of yester-years for having reduced one source of contamination.
Actually, that is the answer to what Al-Beruni portrays. Human thought must never be allowed to become static or stagnant.
 
Author

Ashok Malik

The writer is a political commentator.

Everybody likes attention, and when suddenly deprived of it is upset, befuddled and quick to blame others. This is a common human predicament. In a sense, it is an apt description for Pakistan’s understanding of India in the 10 months the Narendra Modi government has been in office.

To Pakistan’s mind, the signals from the Modi government have been confusing. In May 2014, there was the invitation to the swearing-in ceremony. A few weeks later, there was a sledgehammer (in pure military terms, disproportionate) response to Pakistani incursions and firing on the line of control and the international border. New Delhi cancelled foreign secretary level talks because Pakistani diplomats met the Hurriyat leadership.

Now, government seems to have settled into the awkward formulation that Pakistanis can interact with Hurriyat but not in the run up to bilateral talks.

In the early months, the determination to have a free election in Jammu & Kashmir influenced Modi’s approach and sought to warn Pakistan against possible meddling. Yet, post-election, things have not returned to ‘normal’.

When Indian foreign secretary S Jaishankar visited Islamabad recently, it was posited as part of a Saarc yatra, rather than a two-nation event. Pro forma statements were made. No roadmap for a ‘composite dialogue’ or any other form of dialogue was laid out. No invitations were handed over.

Are these disjointed, disparate occurrences or is a pattern emerging? Many Pakistanis have read a ‘Hindu hardliner’ message into Modi’s actions. That may satisfy lazy stereotyping but is not altogether correct. A better explanation is that on Pakistan at least the priorities of the prime minister’s office (PMO) and the foreign policy establishment, and those of the country at large, are finally merging.

These priorities are not so much those of hostility, but of indifference and recognition that things cannot really be repaired in a hurry. Resultantly or otherwise, India and Indians have other fish to fry.

This is the hard truth Pakistanis find difficult to digest: that Indians, and India, have lost interest in Pakistan. While the universe of Indian engagement with and coverage of the world has expanded in the past 15-20 years, the proportion of news or mind space devoted to Pakistan has declined. As prime minister, Modi is an embodiment of that societal and generational change; he has not created it.

For 15 years — under former prime ministers Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh — the PMO virtually ran Pakistan policy, reducing the external affairs ministry and the Pakistan desk to a sideshow. Today, under Modi, some of that autonomy has been restored and the PMO is no longer micro-managing. Why then did Vajpayee and particularly Manmohan spend so much political capital on Pakistan?

There were several sets of reasons. Singularly important was that both Vajpayee and Manmohan belonged to a pre-1947 generation that had experienced the benefits of a seamless trading system that ran from Peshawar to Kolkata. They strived to recreate it within a two-country framework, and hoped it would lead to new avenues. (Interesting Point)

Modi is 20 years younger than his predecessors. Modi’s voters — 52% of India’s population is below 35 — are 50 years younger. They have zero memories of the composite trading network that existed before Partition and even the residual commerce that continued till the war of 1965.

Ironically, the Indian citizen and Indian strategic thinking are today more outward looking than in recent history. This is largely a function of growing economic aspirations. When Indians look west — whether to Dubai or the United States or even to an ITES contract in Argentina — they see jobs and opportunities. It is the same for the east (Singapore, Asean) or the south (Indian Ocean region, Australia).

Bluntly, there is no comparable economic imperative to consider to the northwest. As an economic geography it is cut off. This has given Pakistan very little leverage in contemporary India. In contrast, China, with all the history of contestation and suspicion, is a crucial business partner.

Paradoxically, South Asia is critical to Modi’s world view and to the expression of Indian political, economic and soft power. To be fair, in prioritising economic engagement with the neighbourhood India is only doing itself a favour.

Bangladesh is key to evacuating hydropower from Arunachal Pradesh. A power corridor from Bhutan lights up homes in Delhi. Ganga water management, without which flooding in eastern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar cannot be checked, requires cooperation from Bangladesh and Nepal.

A sub-regional BBIN (Bangladesh, Bhutan, India and Nepal) energy network is being promoted. It has the Modi government urging Bangladesh to take a stake in power projects in Bhutan, and incubate a BBIN power grid and energy trading system. Joint manufacturing projects involving Meghalaya and Bangladesh and Meghalaya and Myanmar are being discussed. Sri Lanka and the Maldives (despite the current standoff) are essential for Modi’s Indian Ocean ambitions. Bangladesh, Myanmar and Bhutan are access routes to the economies of China, especially Yunnan, and of Asean.

Where is Pakistan? By abandoning the trade and economic paradigm, it has written itself out of the India story. That is the harsh reality.



DISCLAIMER : Views expressed above are the author's own.
Falling off our map: By neglecting the economic paradigm Pakistan has become irrelevant to India - TOI Blogs
I love Indian miserable assumptions
@TankMan @syedali73 @Horus @Oscar

Singularly important was that both Vajpayee and Manmohan belonged to a pre-1947 generation that had experienced the benefits of a seamless trading system that ran from Peshawar to Kolkata. They strived to recreate it within a two-country framework, and hoped it would lead to new avenues


Interesting Point.



A good, thought provoking article.
 
The ex-Foreign Secretary of India made a very blunt statement recently. Generally the bureaucrats are responsible enough not to say so, nonetheless what he said is extremely important to note.

He said that today in India, no one wants peace with Pakistan. There is no constituency for peace barring a very small number of Punjabis of the old generation. As Politicians only deliver what the constituencies want, the politicians of India do not and will not spend their capital on peace with Pakistan..

Not just a former Foreign Secretary, he was the former NSA too - ShivShankar Menon
 
Now with the next summit to be held in Islamabad we will push further for China's entry into the arena which will give the SAARC countries a more productive alternative with fastest growing economy and abundance of potential. If that happens we will effectively neutralize the indian hegemony over our region.

Entry of new member need unanimity. So China is out as long as India does not acquiescence to its entry in SAARC.

And after soft coup done by India in Sri Lanka, be sure that nobody except you would go sharply against India.


Remember one thing that the goals the indians want to achieve can never be possibly achieved without our blessings since r the ones who control their western borders and a possible gateway to CARs and possibly towards Russia where the resources lie and the stability lies in order to utilize them.

Pakistan has a lot to offer India - Access to CAR and then onto Europe making SAARC an economic behemoth. however, India is quite tired of waiting and is willing to pay the extra price because Pakistan chooses not to offer India what it can.

If SAARC were truly united and at peace with each other, we would be controlling 70% of the worlds sea trade between the ports starting from Gulf of Aden to Malacca making it the default strategic powerhouse of the world.
Not true, Pakistan's geographic location can offer a lot to China and US and any other country including India. Can India live without a friendly Pakistan, yes, but are we missing out on something? Yes we are, access to CARs and beyond for one.

And how much is CAR worth to India. A billion? 2 billion? 10 billion!!

The point I am making is that CAR has no economic potential except being a source of natural gas to India; a sector in which China has massively outbid us; and frankly why it should not! CAR gas is on its borders thus accruing very low transportation costs . It would be like Bangladesh having large deposits of gas.

The very small leverage of access to CAR that Pakistan has over India is very very small due to lack of economic potential of CAR. Had it been Europe or USA ,instead of CAR, things would have been different.

Also India could gain access to CAR via Iran. The current Chahbar project that India is executing is more of a "fцck Pakistan/Gwadar" project. On purely economic basis, it does not make any sense for India to invest in Chabhar for aforementioned reasons. India is financing it to ensure that Pakistan would not have a chockhold on Afghanistan and getting access to CAR is more of an afterthought.It also create competition for Gwadar, Gwadar which already hs to compete with Dubai for maritime traffic would be further undermined in another major port comes up just 170 Km away from its current location.

This is the reason that GoI never bartered any concession for gaining access to CAR , with Pakistan.
 
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And how much is CAR worth to India. A billion? 2 billion? 10 billion!!.

Kind of weird how many Pakistanis delude themselves that they have some sort of a card at play here. Something that will cause India to even compromise on Kashmir..... Nobody does the maths on it.

And this rubbish of BBIN etc is futile since after the indian SAARC debacle they r just using their backup option, basically grapes r soar..

Sometimes backups can be a better choice.

Now with the next summit to be held in Islamabad we will push further for China's entry into the arena which will give the SAARC countries a more productive alternative with fastest growing economy and abundance of potential. If that happens we will effectively neutralize the indian hegemony over our region.

Regardless of where the next summit is held, there will be no entry for China. India won't agree & your pipe dreams will remain just that.The point here is about what you have to offer, China-India trade is robust anyways.
 
Pakistan has very little to offer India today when compared to all its other trading partners, while on the other hand India has a lot to offer Pakistan as compared to say Afghanistan, Iran or elsewhere.
It's unfortunate that what the government of Pakistan proposes, the Pakistan Army disposes. The Most Favored Nation status for India has been hanging fire not because of business lobbies in Pakistan, but the PA who needs to protect its $14 billion corporation. Trade would be a win-win situation for both countries and both want it. But would the PA allow it? Simple answer: NO!

And that's the reason why India has by-passed Pakistan for trade with SAARC and lucrative markets in countries from the Middle East to the Asia Pacific, from Europe to the US, and from Africa to South East Asia.

As an example, Pakistan's trade with China which it considers as its 'all weather friend' is just $14 billion whereas Sino-Indian trade stands at $70 billion, $100 billion by next year and slated to reach $500 billion by 2020-22! Pakistan needs to change its economic and trade paradigms and seriously consider opening trade with India as it would benefit the people of Pakistan most considering that as neighbors, Indo-Pak trade can touch $20 billion or thereabouts within a short span of time. This would be a win-win situation for both countries, more so for Pakistan.
 
It's unfortunate that what the government of Pakistan proposes, the Pakistan Army disposes. The Most Favored Nation status for India has been hanging fire not because of business lobbies in Pakistan, but the PA who needs to protect its $14 billion corporation. Trade would be a win-win situation for both countries and both want it. But would the PA allow it? Simple answer: NO!

And that's the reason why India has by-passed Pakistan for trade with SAARC and lucrative markets in countries from the Middle East to the Asia Pacific, from Europe to the US, and from Africa to South East Asia.

As an example, Pakistan's trade with China which it considers as its 'all weather friend' is just $14 billion whereas Sino-Indian trade stands at $70 billion, $100 billion by next year and slated to reach $500 billion by 2020-22! Pakistan needs to change its economic and trade paradigms and seriously consider opening trade with India as it would benefit the people of Pakistan most considering that as neighbors, Indo-Pak trade can touch $20 billion or thereabouts within a short span of time. This would be a win-win situation for both countries, more so for Pakistan.
Want to know the most ardent opposers of MFN for india?
Farmers to protest against MFN to India
India’s MFN status suicidal for Pak farmers | Pakistan Today

In its present form MFN for India is economical murder ofPakistani farmers
 
Which in this case are rather accurate assumptions. One this generation goes, any sympathy in India and any desire to have anything to with Pakistan other than carry out vengeful massacre will end.

Pakistan has very little to offer India today when compared to all its other trading partners, while on the other hand India has a lot to offer Pakistan as compared to say Afghanistan, Iran or elsewhere.
its not true.. pakistan can provide big market for our companies.. and also a route to central asia, but the trade off is unnerving to Indian political class, so they pretend it does not exist.
why take risk.. vajpayee did, got nothing, manmohan did got nothing.
However am sure Modi is trying to stabilize the relation, every US president wants to try hands in israel-palestine.. similar with Indian PM.. nobody can truely ignore it.

Beyond rhetorics, secret talks are still on.
 
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