F16 ARE NO GOOD AGAINST THE US AIR FORCE

[VelocuR]

building up ourselves ?? lolz hilarious ... is that your govt/military are supporting you to building yourselves ? lol

because of them we are suffering lost 35,000 Pakistani's... before 9/11 and now after 10 years we have more enemy than before... about your statement regarding 180million would die .. ? lol in 180 million 50% under poverty... half of your population who can afford to move abroad already moved from Pakistan with their business... hundreds/thousands of industries/factories shutdown... milllions of your people who are working on daily basis .. don't have anything to support continue their families... in my family ... may 5 close relatives close their business in Pakistan just because of .. "your best ever supply of electricity" ... one of my friend who have factory since last 20 years in karachi in which 2,500 employes... today just 200 people left in his fac and already closed 7 departments.

OBL
Mehran Base
Drone..

bhai kis dunya may bhetay ho ?? lol building ourselve in such conditions in which 10 people willing to build ... but 1000 people under corruption who don't want to support you to build yourself!

Lol.
I understood alot of frustrations and disappointments, what I mean building ourselves is Pakistan slow moving away their dependences on US to the J-17s, J-10B, submarines, Navy, and more acquisition with all weather friend.

I think, our electricity shortfall demand is now 7500 megawatts, more power plants under constructions and will likely complete soon. Please don't lose hope and we will have new election coming soon to get rid of Zardari government. As you and I know, Zardari government is worst! We have a chance for new face Imran Khan. Well, OBL is gone, Mehran attack and drones are temporary and WOT are temporary, keep in mind. Pakistan is resilent and will fought back of course.

Here's good news, see our brother BilalHaider's data report from 2009 to 2011, it show a big differences. Pakistan Army continue to wipe off the terrorists and destroy terrorists.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/137304-effects-war-terror-pakistan.html#post2231078


See my signature below.......remember this.

"Old Russia was struggling in its corrupt government, bad economic approach, devalued currency, lack of investment and economic instability all contribute to the failing Russian economy. However, with ample natural resources and huge population (Similar to Pakistan) "

 

[Kaniska]

Guys...dont blame your GOV for purchasing F-16. The reason is that Pakistan never planned to be attacked or to go to w@r with uncle sam in past not it is capable in future...your weapon system is india centric so F-16 is a useful tool...

And again in a different note...are you seriously thinking that you ll be on w@r with uncle sam in one to one situation...come on dude..just be practical...talk about war with india it makes some sense...not with us...the reason is tht uncle sam is hitting your country with droned since last 10 years...none of ur army can do anything...so why to make a situation hyper which is not in someones control...

 

[BATMAN]

Guys...dont blame your GOV for purchasing F-16. The reason is that Pakistan never planned to be attacked or to go to w@r with uncle sam in past not it is capable in future...your weapon system is india centric so F-16 is a useful tool...

And again in a different note...are you seriously thinking that you ll be on w@r with uncle sam in one to one situation...come on dude..just be practical...talk about war with india it makes some sense...not with us...the reason is tht uncle sam is hitting your country with droned since last 10 years...none of ur army can do anything...so why to make a situation hyper which is not in someones control...

You have either problem in understanding English or as usual deliberately trying to destroy the discussion.

It is possible to answer your rant in tit for tat manner, but i ignore it for the sake of saving a meaningful discussion.

Let me make it simple for you...
Do you believe the notion that defence suppliers temper or bug their defence exports?

How would you rate world's defence supplier in trust? If possible list them down in order of your trust!

While formulating your next post, consider your own case and forget about Pakistan for once.

Mods... is there any limit !!!!!!!!!!

 

[regular]

I'm in a shock to see zero comments. Are we avoiding the discussion deliberately or is it a policy matter?

Video ref.: 4:40 - 5:00
The issue has been discussed on this forum various times in past and almost every thinktanks of this forum and all Indians had rejected.

Now coming from the horses mouth, the pioneer pilot of American jets is saying that our F-16 will not be very effective in any war, where we play adversary against US.

The given reason is same that electronics are tempered and and software is a black box.

It is a serious comment because rtd. air Marshal is quite trusted and respected professional in the world and region.

I wonder how does other suppliers i.e. How honestly; French and English conduct the business of defence exports.

Yes! Ure absolutely right. This topic is a serious matter and everybody shold know that Our F-16'ns will be useless against USAF in a war scenario. So we shold not live in a dreamworld. In our defence strategy we shold not depends on our US imported weapons especially F-16'n.........

 

[BATMAN]

Small aircraft have inherent weaknesses in radars, the randoms on small aircraft such as F-16's, JF-17's, Mig-21's ect usually have smaller radar resolution meaning that these aircraft have a difficult time tracking aircraft in formations.

With improved designs, your statement may not be valid, while war is a complex senario, beyond imagination...

Specifications are laid based on tests and you have to trust the supplier, and this is where comes a large room for tempering with software and standard electronics.

Do you rate Russia as more trustable supplier of defence products than US?

 

[BATMAN]

Yes! Ure absolutely right. This topic is a serious matter and everybody shold know that Our F-16'ns will be useless against USAF in a war scenario. So we shold not live in a dreamworld. In our defence strategy we shold not depends on our US imported weapons especially F-16'n.........

Can we trust Eurofighter or Rafael?

What are the chances that non Pakistan states might get fair deal?

 

[ptldM3]

With improved designs, your statement may not be valid, while war is a complex senario, beyond imagination...

Yes of course, technology is always getting better. There are a number of newer (smaller class) radars that have outstanding performance; performance that is comparable to larger radars, sometimes even better, than again the technology that is incorporated in smaller radars can also be incorporated in larger ones. Look at it this way, the latest F-15 is better than the latest F-16.

Larger aircraft are simply better, that can hold more avionics, more fuel, they also have larger payload and larger range. There is a reason that the Super Hornet is 20% larger than the standard F-18.

Simply put a laptop is small, powerful and convenient but it will never match the power of super computers.

Do you rate Russia as more trustable supplier of defence products than US?

I can't comment on the US but Russian is usually generous when it comes to technology transfer and often sets little or no restrictions when selling fighters.

 

[sur]

If three hundred and thirteen poorly equipped can be good against a thousand WELL EQUIPPED then machines and numbers don't matter,,,
If the cause that matters, which in turn dictates the morale,,, and divine help...

3:124-125:Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (specially) sent down? (124) "Yea"― if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels making a terrific onslaught.(125)


8:9-10:"Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks. God made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from God: and God is Exalted in Power, Wise."

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

nothing is good against USAF
even the mighty MKI

Americans worked very hard to get the top superpower status and they will do all they can to stay that way.

remember the vietnam war they lost a lot of things there

 

[Archie]

It's not that simple, one of our fellow F-15 pilots (Chogy) on this forum has stated what I have said before. Small aircraft have inherent weaknesses in radars, the randoms on small aircraft such as F-16's, JF-17's, Mig-21's ect usually have smaller radar resolution meaning that these aircraft have a difficult time tracking aircraft in formations. As Chogy put it his F-15 could track 4 F-16's but the F-16 could only track 1 F-15.

A lock on is also dependent on Electronic counter measures. It should also be noted that the F-15 RCS is similar to the SU-30, so why has no aircraft been able to destroy one in combat?

I think an F15E was shot down in Libya during the recent conflict

 

[blackjack]

JF-17 can shoot them out working out on its low RCS than a Su-30.

I think this will be a little difficult. JF-17 and Su-30MKI are in a completely different league altogether and will be inappropriate to compare. While JF-17 is a fourth gen plane, Su-30 is 4.5. It has a better radar, more maneuverable, better avionics and store carrying capacity with better range and refuelling capability and not to mention twin engines with TVC. So it just might be tad difficult for JF-17 to give it a fight. Although I am not saying that it is impossible to shoot Su-30MKI down with JF-17, it might be easier for Su to shoot down JF-17 than vice versa. JF-17 and F-16's are comparable to MiG29SMT and Mirage2000-9.

 

[Last Hope]

I request you to take this matter on JF-17 thread number 4.

 

[VCheng]

If three hundred and thirteen poorly equipped can be good against a thousand WELL EQUIPPED then machines and numbers don't matter,,,
If the cause that matters, which in turn dictates the morale,,, and divine help...

3:124-125:Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (specially) sent down? (124) "Yea"― if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels making a terrific onslaught.(125)


8:9-10:"Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks. God made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from God: and God is Exalted in Power, Wise."

So when are you running down the battlefield with your sword? Let's see how far you get.

 

[PteX]

I`m sure i`m stating the obvious but, why would any nation that sells jets to "allies", ever make it possible for the "allies" to use these jets against them?
They sell you these jets(USA/China) because they expect you to never use them against them, not to mention that they make sure you never use them against them. (Without spending billions to modify them)

Can you use the Chinese jets that Pakistan currently uses against PLAAF jets?

 

[Jungibaaz]

I think this will be a little difficult. JF-17 and Su-30MKI are in a completely different league altogether and will be inappropriate to compare. While JF-17 is a fourth gen plane, Su-30 is 4.5. It has a better radar, more maneuverable, better avionics and store carrying capacity with better range and refuelling capability and not to mention twin engines with TVC. So it just might be tad difficult for JF-17 to give it a fight. Although I am not saying that it is impossible to shoot Su-30MKI down with JF-17, it might be easier for Su to shoot down JF-17 than vice versa. JF-17 and F-16's are comparable to MiG29SMT and Mirage2000-9.

Su-30MKI is 4.5 gen? really? by what measure?
it is a 4/4+ gen fighter.

JF-17 armed with SD-10 and perhaps an AWACS will nullify any advantages the MKI may have, as soon as this happens the biggest factor that remains is RCS, JF-17 can switch off it's own radar, reduce it's low RCS even further, while MKI is still very easily detectable. In certain scenarios JF-17 can shoot down an MKI and vice versa.

TVC, maneuverability have little advantages is BVR fighting, and a JF-17 with the planned upgrades of a decent HMDS and Pl-5eII should level the playing field for WVR, then it would be down to pilot skill.