F-INSAS assault rifle some options???

[harpoon]

I wonder why India didn't go for AK-47 for our armed forces or establish Kalashnikov arms factory in India eventhough we had excellent relations with Soviet Union. More than half the armies in the world still uses AK-47 or their variants as their primary weapon but even now we import AK-47 from East European nations like Bulgaria. I sometimes don't understand what is going through the minds of our military top brass.

 

[Tangent]

My point is why the option of buying off the shelf has to be on the table,without properly trying the other (better , cheaper ) option of building one indigenous?
Give INSAS it's due attention.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

I wonder why India didn't go for AK-47 for our armed forces or establish Kalashnikov arms factory in India eventhough we had excellent relations with Soviet Union. More than half the armies in the world still uses AK-47 or their variants as their primary weapon. Even now we import AK-47 from East European nations like Bulgaria. I sometimes don't understand what is going through the minds of our military top brass.

we use a east german czech and bulgarian variants of the AK47 most of these go to the Rashtriya and Assam rifles who are in COIN as they complained about the INSAS being to weak and only maiming enemies rather than killing them because INSAS uses a smaller 5.56 round compared to the 7.62 of the AK we only use these in J&K and in the naxalite hit areas for more stopping power

PM 63

Vz 58

these rifles are not compatible with NATO weapons like 40mm grenade launcher etc


i think we should get a rifle primarily suited for 6.8mm but can be quickly changed on the battle field to sport 5.56 and 7.62 like the magpul masada or the Barret REC7 until DRDO completes the multi caliber weapon

 

[Abingdonboy]

I wonder why India didn't go for AK-47 for our armed forces or establish Kalashnikov arms factory in India eventhough we had excellent relations with Soviet Union. More than half the armies in the world still uses AK-47 or their variants as their primary weapon but even now we import AK-47 from East European nations like Bulgaria. I sometimes don't understand what is going through the minds of our military top brass.

The AK is an excellent weapon for certain purposes but it is not a weapon to equip as the standard for an army. Most modern armies use 5.56mm rifles as their standard issue rifle, just like India, for the various advantages it offers. Hence when 7.62mm is more advantageous it is issued ie J&K.

Otherwise India would have the same issues Pakistan Army has with G3- a terrible recoil, almost uncontrollable on full auto, extremely heavy with a dismal range.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

^^^^deathto corruption what you are saying is right but i think we should go with insas it is a nice and accurate weapon what we should do is to make it better by introducing a bullpup design or by adding more ergonomiks to it ratter than going for an over all new design.

the INSAS is fine for right now its like the M16A2 for our forces its not bad but lets look at reality we can use a new rifle that weights 1-2 kg less and can support even more accessories idk if the new rifle we picking will have pictanny rails for holographic sight etc but whatever it is i hope it will be good enough for the average Indian soldier to be 200% more lethal than he already is

 

[LiberalAtheist]

to any of you who know can this be a future carbine in the armed forces and for use with the special forces?

Kalantak

 

[saumyasupratik]

I wonder why India didn't go for AK-47 for our armed forces or establish Kalashnikov arms factory in India eventhough we had excellent relations with Soviet Union. More than half the armies in the world still uses AK-47 or their variants as their primary weapon but even now we import AK-47 from East European nations like Bulgaria. I sometimes don't understand what is going through the minds of our military top brass.

Although newer variants of the AK's are available and they would be good option for the Army in CI ops, in my opinion they shouldn't go for AK's as the standard weapon.I'd still prefer a 5.56mm Assault Rifle as the standard issue.

Some newer AK variants and AK Derived assault rifles.
AK-200

AK-103 and AK-104

AK-63 2.0 - Modernised variant of the AK-63 which is Hungarian manufactured AKM with some slight differences from the original AKM.

Beryl Family - 5.56mm NATO assault rifle based on the AKM.Polish.

I'd love it if they go for AK-103, AK-104 and RPKM for use in CI ops along with PKM's and SVDM's which we already use.

 

[harpoon]

The AK is an excellent weapon for certain purposes but it is not a weapon to equip as the standard for an army. Most modern armies use 5.56mm rifles as their standard issue rifle, just like India, for the various advantages it offers. Hence when 7.62mm is more advantageous it is issued ie J&K.

AK was the standard weapon of the entire Warsaw pact countries and still is for majority of them including Russia. Even outside the Eastern block AK is the standard weapon for many countries like Egypt,Syria,Libya,BD etc. It is also the preferred weapon of choice for terrorists and security agencies around the world.
5.56 mm bullet is increasingly being criticized for their lack of punch. Also they are said to be causing more tissue damage than the 7.62 due to the 'tumbling effect'. Thats why NATO is said to be looking for an intermediate cartridge. Also only since INSAS was IA exposed to 5.56mm cartridge.

Otherwise India would have the same issues Pakistan Army has with G3- a terrible recoil, almost uncontrollable on full auto, extremely heavy with a dismal range.

The same can be said about SLR, the previous standard weapon for IA. SLR a derivative of FN FAL was said to be uncontrollable under auto.

My question is simple, why didn't we go for AK 47 since the 50s or 60s and why are we still dependent on imports for our AK needs.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Although newer variants of the AK's are available and they would be good option for the Army in CI ops, in my opinion they shouldn't go for AK's as the standard weapon.I'd still prefer a 5.56mm Assault Rifle as the standard issue.

Some newer AK variants and AK Derived assault rifles.
AK-200

AK-103 and AK-104

AK-63 2.0 - Modernised variant of the AK-63 which is Hungarian manufactured AKM with some slight differences from the original AKM.

Beryl Family - 5.56mm NATO assault rifle based on the AKM.Polish.

I'd love it if they go for AK-103, AK-104 and RPKM for use in CI ops along with PKM's and SVDM's which we already use.

i'd agree with that we should only use AK's and any other 7.62 rifles for COIN operations only because of the stopping power it provides but as for the standard infantry of the IA we should go with 6.8 and 5.56 options

 

[LiberalAtheist]

AK was the standard weapon of the entire Warsaw pact countries and still is for majority of them including Russia. Even outside the Eastern block AK is the standard weapon for many countries like Egypt,Syria,Libya,BD etc. It is also the preferred weapon of choice for terrorists and security agencies around the world.
5.56 mm bullet is increasingly being criticized for their lack of punch. Also they are said to be causing more tissue damage than the 7.62 due to the 'tumbling effect'. Thats why NATO is said to be looking for an intermediate cartridge. Also only since INSAS was IA exposed to 5.56mm cartridge.



The same can be said about SLR, the previous standard weapon for IA. SLR a derivative of FN FAL was said to be uncontrollable under auto.

My question is simple, why didn't we go for AK 47 since the 50s or 60s and why are we still dependent on imports for our AK needs.

we used the SLR back in the 50's 60's 70's and 80's called the L1A1 we used it because it was a 7.62 battle rifle that supplemented the armys need for a strong battle rifle however during the civil war in Sri Lanka it was learned that 5.56 gives the same amount of stopping power at medium distances with less kick and the bullets are lighter and just as accurate

7.62 AK rifles are only used for COIN in J&K, as the stopping they provide actually kills with 1 shot, the theory was with 5.56 that it will injure an enemy and his comrades will come to help him on the battle field however this theory did not work in the fight against militants in J&K so instead the Rashtriya rifles use Bulgarian Czech versions of the AK

the IA along with many other armies like the US army is going for 6.8mm which has more stopping power compared to 5.56 but less kick than 7.62

 

[saumyasupratik]

we use a east german czech and bulgarian variants of the AK47 most of these go to the Rashtriya and Assam rifles who are in COIN as they complained about the INSAS being to weak and only maiming enemies rather than killing them because INSAS uses a smaller 5.56 round compared to the 7.62 of the AK we only use these in J&K and in the naxalite hit areas for more stopping power

PM 63

We don't use any PM md.63's or md.65's, however we do use md.90's with the palmswell foregrip and without vertical foregrip.Also the md.90's look very similar to the MPi KMS-72 and both have skeleton stocks but the md.90 has lower and upper foregrip is made up of wood while on the KMS-72 the upper foregrip is made up of wood or bakelitle but the lower one is always bakelite.

PM md.90

PM md.90 in Indian service

Vz 58

Vz. 58's are not AK's.Completely different from the inside and work on a different principle than the AK.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

We don't use any PM md.63's or md.65's, however we do use md.90's with the palmswell foregrip and without vertical foregrip.Also the md.90's look very similar to the MPi KMS-72 and both have skeleton stocks but the md.90 has lower and upper foregrip is made up of wood while on the KMS-72 the upper foregrip is made up of wood or bakelitle but the lower one is always bakelite.

PM md.90

PM md.90 in Indian service

Vz. 58's are not AK's.Completely different from the inside and work on a different principle than the AK.

nonetheless the rifles mentioned above are derived from the AK my point was that the 7.62 caliber these rifles provide is good for the Jawans in J&K


these are bulgarian czech and east german variants of the AK itself just modified for other needs

 

[saumyasupratik]

AK was the standard weapon of the entire Warsaw pact countries and still is for majority of them including Russia. Even outside the Eastern block AK is the standard weapon for many countries like Egypt,Syria,Libya,BD etc. It is also the preferred weapon of choice for terrorists and security agencies around the world.

Russia now uses the 5.45 catridge not the 7.62x39mm.The 5.45mm is similar to the 5.56mm NATO.

The same can be said about SLR, the previous standard weapon for IA. SLR a derivative of FN FAL was said to be uncontrollable under auto.

The 1A SLR isn't Fully-Automatic.It's only semi-automatic and is similar to the L1A1 SLR which itself is a semi-automatic copy of the FAL.SLR is an acronym of Self-Loading Rifle.The only variant of the 1A1 SLR capable of automatic fire is the 1C Carbine which was used by the mechanised forces.Indian Army and Paramilitary forces used the semi-automatic 1A1 SLR only and not the fully-automatic FAL.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

are we making our own F-INSAS assault rifle, one with Israel, or just buying one off the shelf for the F-INSAS program? someone please elaborate

 

[Abingdonboy]

are we making our own F-INSAS assault rifle, one with Israel, or just buying one off the shelf for the F-INSAS program? someone please elaborate

I believe it is a JV with Israel but details are very, very sketchy and anything else is pure speculation. It truly astonished me the way the F-INSAS is happening- a MAJOR project ($2BN just for starters) that is supposed to be introduced this year, albeit in an introductory manner, and a part from a few candid press releases from DRDO, vague comments from IA brass and sketchy YT vids we haven't heard any real details or images of what exactly F-INSAS incorporates or what the finished product will look like. The US Future warrior system has been open for years and their are numerous pics and info freely available anywhere on the web.


7/11 and still NOTHING!!!!!!