What's new

F-86 Kills MiG-21

Windjammer

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
41,319
Reaction score
181
Country
Pakistan
Location
United Kingdom
The last air battle of 1971 war between PAF and IAF took place on 17th December. The encounter involved a humble PAF F-86 Sabre against a Supersonic MIG-21 of the IAF.
Flt Lt. Maqsood Amir emerged the victorious pilot when he shot down the MIG-21, No C 116 through a missile attack.
The Indian pilot was captured after ejecting from his stricken aircraft.


images


The above sequence from the F-86 Gun Camera shows the Indian MiG-21 on fire and the seat firing out of the canopy as the pilot ejects.
 
. .
It was a gun kill and not a missile kill,there's an article about it by Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail, kindly read that.
 
. .
Despite having superiority in technology and numbers, IAF overall failed in 1965 and 1971 air-wars against PAF. Technology and numbers are not the only factors that matters. Pilots training and skills hold the overall position!
 
. .
Well generation difference does count but how is this incident any more different than 3 tiny Gnats shooting down 2 PAF sabres and badly damaging one on 22nd November.
Afterall F-86 sabre is generation ahead of the tiny subsonic Gnat.
Some times in war lady luck favors you.
 
.
Gnats are called the Sabre killers and surprised PAF and world .
 
.
Well generation difference does count but how is this incident any more different than 3 tiny Gnats shooting down 2 PAF sabres and badly damaging one on 22nd November.
Afterall F-86 sabre is generation ahead of the tiny subsonic Gnat.
Some times in war lady luck favors you.
Any port in a storm, firstly the Gnat flew almost a decade later than the Sabre, and many times fell victim to the older aircraft both in 1965 and '71. One Gnat was also shot down during the above encounter you mentioned. !!

North American F-86
Role Fighter aircraft
National origin United States
Manufacturer North American Aviation
First flight 1 October 1947
Introduction 1949, with USAF

Retired 1994, Bolivia


Gnat T.1

Role Fighter and trainer
Manufacturer Folland Aircraft
Designer W.E.W. Petter
First flight 18 July 1955
Introduction 1959, RAF

Retired 1979, UK
Primary users Royal Air Force
Indian Air Force
Finnish Air Force
Number built 449 (including HAL Ajeet)
Developed from Folland Midge
Variants HAL Ajeet
 
. .
Despite having superiority in technology and numbers, IAF overall failed in 1965 and 1971 air-wars against PAF. Technology and numbers are not the only factors that matters. Pilots training and skills hold the overall position!

If our air force failed in 1971, we would have lost the war.
 
.
Well generation difference does count but how is this incident any more different than 3 tiny Gnats shooting down 2 PAF sabres and badly damaging one on 22nd November.
Afterall F-86 sabre is generation ahead of the tiny subsonic Gnat.
Some times in war lady luck favors you.


not really.. the f-86 first flew in 1947.. the gnat first flew in 1955.. so there's one logic fail.
second logic fail coming up.. the gnat was far more maneuverable and had a smaller profile than the hunter... hence not only was it a better aircraft in A2A combat it was also harder to spot.. so the whole generation logic fails too.

here is the excerpt that describes that incident

In the third mission of the day, around 1530 hrs (all times EPST), three F-86s led by the Squadron Commander, Wg Cdr Afzal Choudhry, with Flg Off Khalil Ahmad as No 2 and Flt Lt Parvaiz Mehdi Qureshi as No 3, attacked a couple of tanks that had been reported in the area. Subsequent to the attack, ground control asked the leader to look for more tanks that were suspected to be concealed around. Loitering in the battlefield amounted to inviting trouble, especially when flying without radar cover. Trouble came swiftly when four ground-scrambled Gnats, of Dum Dum based No 22 Squadron, were able to sneak in and bounce the F-86 formation. At that time, the leader, Wg Cdr Choudhry, was attacking a AAA battery that was noticed to be firing at them. Pulling out of the dive, Choudhry broke into the Gnat pair flown by Flt Lt R A Massey and Flg Off S F Suarez, and managed to ward off the attack. Choudhry then reversed to take a pot shot at one of the Gnats. During a brief scrap, both Massey and Choudhry claimed firing at the other, but their aircraft remained unscathed. Massey later stated that gun stoppage prevented further firing and he had to give up the chase. Scattered, and without visual cross cover, Khalil and Mehdi fell prey to another pair of Gnats flown by Flt Lt M A Ganapathy and Flg Off D Lazarus, who picked off the two wingmen with professional ease.[3] Both F-86 pilots ejected and were captured by the insurgents, who handed them over to the Indian Army, eventually ending up as POWs. For No 14 Squadron, it was like losing the opening batsmen in the first over. Not withstanding Chaudhry’s misperception of having been outnumbered by as many as ten Gnats, the reality is that his formation was simply surprised by the nimble interceptors. It might have been instructive if Choudhry had somehow known that the two previous missions of the day had survived interception, only because they had not lingered around and, each time the Gnats had arrived in the area just a little too late.

This is the factor known as lady luck, which when playing the opposite side during the laughable "sabre slayer" incident allowed ALL four Pakistani sabre's to exit the area and return to base with six gnats unable to bring down a single sabre then claiming that one damaged meant two to three kills and the gnat became a "sabre slayer" in the fog of war.

Each side boasted, each side has officers willing to disclose the true details.. it is better to stick to their accounts and not those released by official propaganda machines.
 
.
Well generation difference does count but how is this incident any more different than 3 tiny Gnats shooting down 2 PAF sabres and badly damaging one on 22nd November.
Afterall F-86 sabre is generation ahead of the tiny subsonic Gnat.
Some times in war lady luck favors you.
Gun camera pictures

scaled.php
 
.
A little Gnat killing A sabre is like J17 killing a F16:D.
That's untrue.

JF-17 has infact killed F-16 in mock-up fights and the ratio of JF-17s with F-16 kills is surprising for you.

When any Pakistani members posts about 'small victories' during 1971 land war or sea-war you said that they are just taking once small incident for their self-comfort and overlooking the bigger picture. But why this hypocrisy now when a Gnat killed a Sabre yet on the overall it was shameful defeat in 1965 and 1971 for IAF?
 
.
Any port in a storm, firstly the Gnat flew almost a decade later than the Sabre, and many times fell victim to the older aircraft both in 1965 and '71. One Gnat was also shot down during the above encounter you mentioned. !!

North American F-86
Role Fighter aircraft
National origin United States
Manufacturer North American Aviation
First flight 1 October 1947
Introduction 1949, with USAF

Retired 1994, Bolivia


Gnat T.1

Role Fighter and trainer
Manufacturer Folland Aircraft
Designer W.E.W. Petter
First flight 18 July 1955
Introduction 1959, RAF

Retired 1979, UK
Primary users Royal Air Force
Indian Air Force
Finnish Air Force
Number built 449 (including HAL Ajeet)
Developed from Folland Midge
Variants HAL Ajeet

kindly note that Gnat was developed and designed as a TRAINER JET while f-86 sabres were Frontline jet fighters
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom