F-35 Nearly Six Years Away, Pakistan Buys F-16s

[General General]

Do u know the prise or erieye? an a JF-17?
1.14 billion for 4 Awacs and 20 mil for each JFT is rising with futher development.

The 1.1 billion dollar sale was for 4 Erieye-fitted Saab 2000 and 1 Saab 2000 without the radar for training purposes. The price of a JF-17 is not $20 million as stated, but $15 million ($17 million export price). That brings the total of 1 AWACS system and four JF-17s to ~$260 million. As I said, the F-35 flyaway cost is $200 million. It will be useless without specialized ground center and maintainance equipment. The costs for that will also run into many millions. Everytime the PAF has to perform maintainance on it, they will have to buy U.S. services for that purpose. And the most maintainance required, is during war. I doubt the U.S. will sell even a missile to Pakistan let alone provide service to their 5th generation jets while they're at war. You can take an example for 1965, 1971 and 1999.

 

[gambit]

The 1.1 billion dollar sale was for 4 Erieye-fitted Saab 2000 and 1 Saab 2000 without the radar for training purposes. The price of a JF-17 is not $20 million as stated, but $15 million ($17 million export price). That brings the total of 1 AWACS system and four JF-17s to ~$260 million. As I said, the F-35 flyaway cost is $200 million. It will be useless without specialized ground center and maintainance equipment. The costs for that will also run into many millions. Everytime the PAF has to perform maintainance on it, they will have to buy U.S. services for that purpose. And the most maintainance required, is during war. I doubt the U.S. will sell even a missile to Pakistan let alone provide service to their 5th generation jets while they're at war. You can take an example for 1965, 1971 and 1999.

Can you support this argument? Or did you just made it up? By the way, this argument has been debunked before.

 

[General General]

I made that statement based on previous observations. Pakistan has not even received an assembly line for the F-16 even though it has been buying the plane for about 30 years and operates >60 fighters. The U.S. is very reluctant to give Paksitan independance in critical technologies. Do you really think that the U.S. will say to Pakisatan: Look these are the constituents of our super-secret stealth paint and composite materials, now you can make them on your own. And promise us that you won't give them to your all-weather, long-standing ally; China.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@G.G the price of JFT is estimated 15 or 17 million but with more development such as engine,more use of conposites,AESA its price will gradually increase and it is!The french avionics deal worth a billion and a half or something $$.
..........

Yes we have taken lessons frm past US embargoes and thts why we started JFT project which is a reality today ... also we never asked for a f-16 assembly line after the initial 28 F-16s(peace gate) were embargoes in 90s.

And it by the next year or so the f-16 fleet will be more then 83.And in the end it will be around a 100.
All new,embargoed tht PAF is recieving (and will be embargoes) and the present fleet.

Yet with no spares we managed to fly the F-16s with very very low crash rate.

And F-35 is an option to counter the russian PAK-FA.. another option is the JXX.
To counter a 5th gen jet in indian inventory we will have to make a call.

Just like F-16 blk 52 and FC-20 to counter SU-30 and the future MRCA.

Keeping in mind pak-fa will be introduced into iaf after 2020 at latest.
So we have alot of time in our date and my then our economy will be better inshallah.

 

[gambit]

Everytime the PAF has to perform maintainance on it, they will have to buy U.S. services for that purpose.

Can you support this argument? Or did you just made it up? By the way, this argument has been debunked before.

I made that statement based on previous observations.

Then you are not very observant. Or you made things up. There are several levels of maintenance but I will point out three main types:

- Flightline maintenance. This is ordinary daily maintenance such as fuel, oil, tires and system troubleshoot and remove and replace of components. This is usually done by the customer.

- Phase maintenance. This is where the aircraft is taken into a specialized hangar that is managed by a specialized unit that will perform periodic inspections of every aircraft systems, whether a system is 'broke' or not.

Phase maintenance ensures aircrafts remain battle ready

To ensure aircraft remain in appropriate condition to continue their tireless missions, conducting phase maintenance is essential to make sure every part of the aircraft is in working order, a job which can be time consuming and strenuous.

Phase maintenance is mandatory in peacetime. The customer usually performs this but manufacturer's contractors can be enlisted under separate contracts.

- Depot maintenance. This is where the aircraft is literally stripped down to its bare airframe. All components are removed, even the wiring bundles, and inspected. Refurbishments of components are usual at this level. Very very very few customers are able to perform depot level maintenance simply for the fact that the customer is not the manufacturer, does not have the institutional knowledge of the equipment, and may not have the necessary complex inspection tools to perform this in-depth type of maintenance. Depot level is only one-up from the factory assembly line.

FM 3-04.500 Chptr 2 Aviation Maintenance Operations

2-5. Depot level maintenance provides the ability to overhaul, repair, modify, retrofit, and modernize aircraft systems. Although depot maintenance is normally performed at fixed facilities within CONUS, support teams may be deployed for on-site repairs as necessary.

So cease the disinformation that the US imposed unwanted contractual obligations upon any customer.

 

[Super Falcon]

agreed if we want to counter indian Pak fa than must opt to JXX or F 35 and stop india getting F 35 in future

 

[Manticore]

the chief said that j10 would not be the only chinese jet we'll buy--so jxx is on cards--

i know its costly, but we got blk52-- so we can upgrade fc20--- wouldnt be the same case with f35/jxx?

 

[General General]

@gambit
If the U.S. is so liberal in transfering it's latest technoligies to on-off countries, why is it extremely reluctant to transfer the 15 year old MQ-1 drones to Pakistan? Keep in mind that the F-35 is not like anything else the U.S. has ever sold before. Even the stealth paint coating on the F-22 Raptor requires a refurbishment every 330 hours of flight. Do you really think the U.S. will provide the PAF with top-of-the-shelf paint to do it themselves? Even though they know that China is developing 5th generation planes, do you think they will risk the paint falling into Chinese hands? China does not have access to Western technology, and it's an open secret that Pakistan is it's only link to their systems. I doubt that Pakistan is even cosidering the JSF. It will develop the JF-17 in a stealthy version, and buy the JXX when it comes out in the next 5-7 years to counter the PAK FA.

 

[Jigs]

@gambit
If the U.S. is so liberal in transfering it's latest technoligies to on-off countries, why is it extremely reluctant to transfer the 15 year old MQ-1 drones to Pakistan? Keep in mind that the F-35 is not like anything else the U.S. has ever sold before. Even the stealth paint coating on the F-22 Raptor requires a refurbishment every 330 hours of flight. Do you really think the U.S. will provide the PAF with top-of-the-shelf paint to do it themselves? Even though they know that China is developing 5th generation planes, do you think they will risk the paint falling into Chinese hands? China does not have access to Western technology, and it's an open secret that Pakistan is it's only link to their systems. I doubt that Pakistan is even cosidering the JSF. It will develop the JF-17 in a stealthy version, and buy the JXX when it comes out in the next 5-7 years to counter the PAK FA.

FYI F-35 does not use RAM paint. They use structural fiber mat which is said to be very low maintenance.

 

[General General]

It requires maintenance none-the-less. I would be surprised if the U.S. offered the plane to Pakistan, and even more surprised if Paksitan considers it.

 

[rockstarIN]

agreed if we want to counter indian Pak fa than must opt to JXX or F 35 and stop india getting F 35 in future

I don't think India will go for F-35, even US now willing to sales the same to India. As stealth fighter needs more maintenance, an embargo on its maintenance will bring all these to ground.

 

[Donatello]

I made that statement based on previous observations. Pakistan has not even received an assembly line for the F-16 even though it has been buying the plane for about 30 years and operates >60 fighters. The U.S. is very reluctant to give Paksitan independance in critical technologies. Do you really think that the U.S. will say to Pakisatan: Look these are the constituents of our super-secret stealth paint and composite materials, now you can make them on your own. And promise us that you won't give them to your all-weather, long-standing ally; China.

I am sorry but you are making things up.

PAF does NOT operate 60+ F-16s at the moment.

It will be operating them by Next year. But that is a lot of time till there and a lot of MLU to be done on older jets.

PAF operates 45 old blk A/B F-16s plus the 4 new one.

Of the old 45, 4 are in USA for MLU testing.

So numbers are certainly less than 60 at the moment.

 

[T-Rex]

I am sorry but you are making things up.

PAF does NOT operate 60+ F-16s at the moment.

It will be operating them by Next year. But that is a lot of time till there and a lot of MLU to be done on older jets.

PAF operates 45 old blk A/B F-16s plus the 4 new one.

Of the old 45, 4 are in USA for MLU testing.

So numbers are certainly less than 60 at the moment.

The number of F-16s operated by PAF is not the issue, the issue is the US policy towards Pakistan! 'General' has pointed out the bitter truth, it's very natural that CIA agents on this forum will try to conceal that fact.

 

[General General]

@penumbra, You missed my point, but anyway here's where it says PAF owns 60+ F 16 fighters Pakistan Air Force Equipment. The ones that have yet to be delivered also count, because PAF has already paid for them.

 

[HAIDER]

An old memo sitting somewhere on senator desk.