F-16 deal no longer a viable offer, says US

[C130]

HEY but you love indi who don't love your GEAR as they did in MMRCA F-16 IN

Rafale and Typhoon are simply better than than the F-16 MMRCA proved that not ashamed to admit that

For these purchases are you going to get the Congress Approvals?



In the cost of 40 F-15SA 4 billion PAF can get 50 SU-35's with no sanctions. They even get the Chinese flankers and J-10 options available with engine issue resolved.

4 billion also gives around 36 EFT with avionics engines and weapon systems for the JF-17. It also opens up Chinese Flankers J-10's J-31's and TFX options.

Where would PAF go would become clear in a few months from now.

If Pakistan could get the Su-35 Flanker they would have long ago so, why buy more F-16s if you are afraid of sanctions?? it makes no sense


and no way are you getting 36 EFT for $4 billion including weapons.

Pakistan simply has no options.

best hope is J-31 but who knows how much that bird will cost and perform or when it will be ready.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Rafale and Typhoon are simply better than than the F-16 MMRCA proved that not ashamed to admit that

the rafle is being purchased by india and the typhoon is too expensive and they would get them beyond 2020 so its not worth it. i suppose if they talk to the british ministry of defence they may be able to prioritise jets for export which is highly likely warton is busy making jets for many countries where it will begine delivering a dozen to oman where deliveries begin next year kuwait will get them beyond 2020.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Low priority , higher priority items are being sought

 

[aftab_s81]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WERE ALL THEY SLEEPING AT THAT TIME WHEN THEY WERE SANCTIONING AID TO PAKISTAN IN TERMS TO C-----S.......f,

AS FAR AS SHAKIL AFRIDI HE HAS BY PASSED LEA OF PAKISTAN BEING PAKISTANI WHILE HE HAS NO OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS FILED IN PAKISTNAN EMBASSY FOR GREEN CARD THEREFORE RULE OF LAW IS NECESSARY AS PER THIS IS THE CHARGE HE COULD INFORM LEAs and LEAs itself TAKE ACTION AT THAT TIME


ROLLER COASTERS IN u.* s* WE IN PAKISTAN JUST BUILDING OURS NEED EQUIPMENT IF YOUR COULD PROVIDE THEN WE COULD DREAM OF DEMOLISHING THAT

WHAT MISTAKES YOU DONE WITH TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN SO DON'T BLAME US ALSO

WE HAVE LOT OF BALOCHS IN KARACHI GETTING EDUCATION, HAVING EVEN LARGE SCALE INDUSTRIES



you right but our engineers couldn't got opportunities in Pakistan and most of them don't prefer to go PAC or like institutions,
even in karachi NED,SIR SYED , and many private institutions are giving quality engineering education but i found in there mind is GOING ABROAD ,JOBS ABROAD , MARRY WITH GORI, i am evident of this

They go abroad because they find no opportunity here. Most of us come from middle class. So they have to feed their families. This makes compulsory to migrate, anywhere to earn bread and butter. Without industry and merit you can not hold your talent, but talent has to find some place, local or abroad.

 

[The Sandman]

So now what back to J10 again? :/

 

[aakash_2410]

the rafle is being purchased by india and the typhoon is too expensive and they would get them beyond 2020 so its not worth it. i suppose if they talk to the british ministry of defence they may be able to prioritise jets for export which is highly likely warton is busy making jets for many countries where it will begine delivering a dozen to oman where deliveries begin next year kuwait will get them beyond 2020.

EFTs are 300 million A PIECE with service, spares and weapons package now. I don't think they can afford it. Even UK and Germany were looking to cut down their orders of F-35 and order a few more EFTs because of delays but, they cost almost the same as F-35 if not more and hence they just stuck to their original F-35 order.

Btw please use caps where necessary, reading your posts is like torture for my mild OCD affected brain. Cheers mate.

and no way are you getting 36 EFT for $4 billion including weapons.

They'd be lucky getting a dozen EFTs for $4 billion now to be honest.

 

[weqi]

EFTs are 300 million A PIECE with weapons package now. I don't think they can afford it. Even UK and Germany were looking to cut down their orders of F-35 and order a few more EFTs because of delays but, they cost almost the same as F-35 if not more and hence they just stuck to their original F-35 order.

Btw please use caps where necessary, reading your posts are like torture for my mild OCD affected brain. Cheers mate.



They'd be lucky getting a dozen EFTs for $4 billion now to be honest.

akash bhayya F-35 and Euro are two different things while not 300 million this as follows update your numbers

The Eurofighter Typhoon, which has a list price of about US$140 million, is Europe’s largest collaborative defence programme, with the Kuwait purchase taking the number of aircraft sold to 599.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...urofighter-typhoons-in-multibillion-euro-deal

 

[airmarshal]

Due to inept govt not knowing what foreign policy is, Pakistan is becoming more and more isolated. A lot to do with our own lack of policies and total lack of seriousness on foreign front.

Nawaz govt thinks of 'foreign' only in case of foreign offshore accounts and foreign properties. Foreign policy? What is that?

 

[aakash_2410]

akash bhayya F-35 and Euro are two different things while not 300 million this as follows update your numbers

The Eurofighter Typhoon, which has a list price of about US$140 million, is Europe’s largest collaborative defence programme, with the Kuwait purchase taking the number of aircraft sold to 599.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...urofighter-typhoons-in-multibillion-euro-deal

Weqi bhai, you're right but with service, spares and weapons package you can double the prices easily. Also, this was last year. These prices go up at an exponential rate.

That's why the aforementioned deal is not viable now. Because, they'd want to re-negotiate the prices. The same happened to India. In three years $12 billion for 126 Rafales, it went up to $9 billion for 36 planes now.

 

[Falcon26]

All of this could have been avoided had Pakistan taken a firm decision regarding the Iran-Saudi Arabia issue. It simply chickened out and now Iran continues its belligerence in tandem with India allowing the later to set up shops in its territories to destabilize Pakistan. India inches closer to the Saudis & the Gulf. So in one swift move, Pakistan ruined relations with tested friends and got no favors from Iran. Meanwhile, India is running with the hares and hunting with the hounds.

My view is that Pakistan should go the Israeli model and downsize its army and put more resources on its Air Force & Navy because all modern wars are decided by air power. Reducing the army to 250k-300k levels will allow meager resources to go to the Air Force and navy while increasing the competency and effectiveness of the army itself. But I suspect there will be deep opposition to this restructuring by vested interests. If I remember correctly, at one point Musharraf was advocating the downsizing of the army.

akash bhayya F-35 and Euro are two different things while not 300 million this as follows update your numbers

The Eurofighter Typhoon, which has a list price of about US$140 million, is Europe’s largest collaborative defence programme, with the Kuwait purchase taking the number of aircraft sold to 599.

http://www.thenational.ae/business/...urofighter-typhoons-in-multibillion-euro-deal

Depends on what type of the Eurofighter. Saudi Arabia got 72 Typhoons for $7.4 Billion
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1I0UI20140219

 

[Blue Marlin]

EFTs are 300 million A PIECE with weapons package now. I don't think they can afford it. Even UK and Germany were looking to cut down their orders of F-35 and order a few more EFTs because of delays but, they cost almost the same as F-35 if not more and hence they just stuck to their original F-35 order.

Btw please use caps where necessary, reading your posts are like torture for my mild OCD affected brain. Cheers mate.



They'd be lucky getting a dozen EFTs for $4 billion now to be honest.

the germans are cutting their orders down, we are not heck we may buy 48 of the newer tranch 3b enhanced variant and retire the older variants[ read the white paper]. also germany is not ordering the f35. no one is willing to fund the 3b upgrades. yes the eft is very expensive. a friend of mine who builds them told me that they aim to build them for about £85 million. so if you double that for a life long maintainance/service package which is 190 million

as for my posts i rush them dislexia, also mozila disabling auto correct is no help either

 

[weqi]

All of this could have been avoided had Pakistan taken a firm decision regarding the Iran-Saudi Arabia issue. It simply chickened out and now Iran continues its belligerence in tandem with India allowing the later to set up shops in its territories to destabilize Pakistan. India inches closer to the Saudis & the Gulf. So in one swift move, Pakistan ruined relations with tested friends and got no favors from Iran. Meanwhile, India is running with the hares and hunting with the hounds.

My view is that Pakistan should go the Israeli model and downsize its army and put more resources on its Air Force & Navy because all modern wars are decided by air power. Reducing the army to 250k-300k levels will allow meager resources to go to the Air Force and navy while increasing the competency and effectiveness of the army itself. But I suspect there will be deep opposition to this restructuring by vested interests. If I remember correctly, at one point Musharraf was advocating the downsizing of the army.



Depends on what type of the Eurofighter. Saudi Arabia got 72 Typhoons for $7.4 Billion
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1I0UI20140219

saudis acquiring these to entertain is-real, which is f-35 so this will be parallel to rafale

 

[Immortan.Joe]

Depends on what type of the Eurofighter. Saudi Arabia got 72 Typhoons for $7.4 Billion
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1I0UI20140219

Not type of Eurofighter, but package that comes with it. Price of different versions ,when adjusted to cost escalation, would be similar. What lead to difference in cost is the package.

Buy a bare bones plane with no spares, weapons, training, base, or ToT; you could easily get 36+ Typhoons in $4 Billion. Though this plane would be a useless joyride provider, and you would have to buy spares, weapons, training, and build bases, at a cost much higher than what you would have got in a package.

Buy a bare minimum functional standard plane ie with spares, weapons, and training with a single base, and you could buy a couple of dozen for $4 Billion.

Add some luxuries like customization, ToT, more than one base, offsets, and you could not even buy a dozen Eurofighters for $4 Billion.

Story is same for all fighters.

Depends on what type of the Eurofighter. Saudi Arabia got 72 Typhoons for $7.4 Billion
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA1I0UI20140219

Not type of Eurofighter, but package that comes with it. Price of different versions ,when adjusted to cost escalation, would be similar. What lead to difference in cost is the package.

Buy a bare bones plane with no spares, weapons, training, base, or ToT; you could easily get 36+ Typhoons in $4 Billion. Though this plane would be a useless joyride provider, and you would have to buy spares, weapons, training, and build bases, at a cost much higher than what you would have got in a package.

Buy a bare minimum functional standard plane ie with spares, weapons, and training with a single base, and you could buy a couple of dozen for $4 Billion.

Add some luxuries like customization, ToT, more than one base, offsets, and you could not even buy a dozen Eurofighters for $4 Billion.

Story is same for all fighters.

 

[aakash_2410]

the germans are cutting their orders down, we are not heck we may buy 48 of the newer tranch 3b enhanced variant and retire the older variants[ read the white paper]. also germany is not ordering the f35. no one is willing to fund the 3b upgrades. yes the eft is very expensive. a friend of mine who builds them told me that they aim to build them for about £85 million. so if you double that for a life long maintainance/service package which is 190 million

as for my posts i rush them dislexia, also mozila disabling auto correct is no help either

No Germans at one-point were seriously contemplating F-35. But, you're right. I stand corrected, I meant Germany didn't end up ordering and UK cut their orders down.

Yeah £85 million was when they were brand new. Currently the last EFTs that RAF ordered in 2011 were £125 million each without the support package. To be fair this was was including the development cost but still pretty deary. I work for ITP Engines UK, based in Leicester. Have you heard of them? They're Spanish gas turbine designers and are originally part of Eurojet Turbo Consortium. We designed the nozzles on EJ200. But let's say those nozzles are about 4-5 times more expensive than the ones on any other planes. These are just plain convergent nozzles. God knows how much the High Pressure Turbines (most important part of any gas turbine engine) cost. Because, it was all Rolls-Royce, us rookies from ITP weren't allowed nowhere near those blades.

 

[Falcon26]

Not type of Eurofighter, but package that comes with it. Price of different versions ,when adjusted to cost escalation, would be similar. What lead to difference in cost is the package.

Buy a bare bones plane with no spares, weapons, training, base, or ToT; you could easily get 36+ Typhoons in $4 Billion. Though this plane would be a useless joyride provider, and you would have to buy spares, weapons, training, and build bases, at a cost much higher than what you would have got in a package.

Buy a bare minimum functional standard plane ie with spares, weapons, and training with a single base, and you could buy a couple of dozen for $4 Billion.

Add some luxuries like customization, ToT, more than one base, offsets, and you could not even buy a dozen Eurofighters for $4 Billion.

Story is same for all fighters.



Not type of Eurofighter, but package that comes with it. Price of different versions ,when adjusted to cost escalation, would be similar. What lead to difference in cost is the package.

Buy a bare bones plane with no spares, weapons, training, base, or ToT; you could easily get 36+ Typhoons in $4 Billion. Though this plane would be a useless joyride provider, and you would have to buy spares, weapons, training, and build bases, at a cost much higher than what you would have got in a package.

Buy a bare minimum functional standard plane ie with spares, weapons, and training with a single base, and you could buy a couple of dozen for $4 Billion.

Add some luxuries like customization, ToT, more than one base, offsets, and you could not even buy a dozen Eurofighters for $4 Billion.

Story is same for all fighters.

What's your prove the Saudi 72 Typhoon deal for 7.4 billion didn't include weapons?